When people (esp women) throw words like "diverse" or "woman's touch", I ask them how does hiring diverse matter to a company? How does it improve things? No one has given a proper answer. The only thing they come up with is "many studies have shown...." argument. I asked one to point out the study which has underlying data and she was not able to. Anyone can take data, twist it to fit one's narrative and publish as findings.

I had a female friend who once told me that "studies have shown" female investment managers show higher returns than male managers. I think I have seen some woke articles with the same message. In most cases it was a woman pushing for freebies like quotas using victimhood. Then there are some virtue signaling simps who post for likes and female validation.

Evidence Shows Women Are Better Investors Than Men
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/evidence-shows-women-better-investors-than-men-marc-daner/
Marc Daner

Women-led portfolio managers outperform male peers this year study

The moral of the story is always "while women have made rapid strides in gender parity, there is a long way to go" (which means gimme gimme gimme more quotas)

For starters, I will admit I haven't read any updates on this accident to include who was in what seat.

I think the Pilot flying (a woman) was in the right seat. The pilot monitoring and PIC (a man) was in the left seat.

So, they land with a high sink rate and **** happens.

Was the pilot monitoring/PIC also an instructor or LCP? Have the cockpit voice recorder "tapes" been released?

If so, hell, screw "if so". WTF was he doing? Did he just sit there and let it happen? Crew of 2 They both screwed up. The PIC should eat this one, too.

Late Friday evening is a great time to officially release the names of the pilots.

sts7049 said:

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aTmAg said:

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sts7049 said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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sts7049 said:

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you can stick with whatever backward logic makes you happy!

i still want to know if you guys care if these white men are gay or not.

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Almost everyone has said they do not care who is flying as long as they are actually qualified to do so. That doesn't seem racist or sexist to me, but hey, I just care more about arriving somewhere safely than I do about feeling good because of who is at the controls. Sadly, one has to wonder these days because of open racism and sexism in hiring practices.

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i'm not really debating those people. i agree with them, i want the best most qualified pilots as well.

i'm specifically asking the one who said he only wants a white male.

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Are standards lower for gay dudes? If so, then yes I would want my pilot to be straight.

Is this supposed to be some sort of gotcha question?

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not at all. if we're drawing arbitrary boundaries on who is acceptable, I would have thought being gay should also have been excluded too since they are one of these protected classes with DEI. I'm just wondering how narrow this distinction is supposed to be.

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Whatever distinction DIE makes. If they give special preferences to straight white dudes from Florida, then I wouldn't want any straight white dudes from Florida flying my plane.

I'm still absolutely amazed that everyone on the plane lived.

TexasAggiesWin said:

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I'm still absolutely amazed that everyone on the plane lived.

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1). Seatbelts save lives..
2). Lots of physics. The wing broke free before the friction/drag has a change to turn the plane. Additionally that won't breaking off took all of the parking fuel and fire with it. After that the right wing, still with some lift, gently rolled the plane. But only half way. The tail snapped easily. Remember the Denny's last year that tagged the CRJ at Atlanta and snapped the tail straight off?

The fuselage only did a half a roll and then it was over. So the passengers in their seats, were sure pushed forward a bit and flipped upside down. But the fuselage didn't break up and go tumbling here, there, and everywhere, in a giant spray of leaking and burning fuel.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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I've often said that the real poison of DEI is that competent women and minorities will always have a question mark on their record.

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Absolutely. I won't argue that claim at all.

Its a lead life jacket

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I won't go to a doctor who has graduated recently. Only 40+ year olds.

TAMU1990 said:

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Kenneth_2003 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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I've often said that the real poison of DEI is that competent women and minorities will always have a question mark on their record.

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Absolutely. I won't argue that claim at all.

Its a lead life jacket

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I won't go to a doctor who has graduated recently. Only 40+ year olds.

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If I'm going to a young Dr, it's going to be a white male. You know they are the absolute best of the best. The others might be but they might not.

TAMU1990 said:

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Kenneth_2003 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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I've often said that the real poison of DEI is that competent women and minorities will always have a question mark on their record.

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Absolutely. I won't argue that claim at all.

Its a lead life jacket

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I won't go to a doctor who has graduated recently. Only 40+ year olds.

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My current doc is a dot Indian female internist who is 60. If she retires, I'll try to find another old doc. If not, I'll go with a young white or Asian male.

GAC06 can freak out again. LoL

Whens lunch said:

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For starters, I will admit I haven't read any updates on this accident to include who was in what seat.

I think the Pilot flying (a woman) was in the right seat. The pilot monitoring and PIC (a man) was in the left seat.

So, they land with a high sink rate and **** happens.

Was the pilot monitoring/PIC also an instructor or LCP? Have the cockpit voice recorder "tapes" been released?

If so, hell, screw "if so". WTF was he doing? Did he just sit there and let it happen? Crew of 2 They both screwed up. The PIC should eat this one, too.

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I'm not a pilot. But, I imagine it's very hard to grab the controls for the split couple seconds where crap hit the fan.

Very similar to the helicopter (incidentally also flown by a female) that hit a plane 3-4 weeks ago.

It will be interesting to see the CVR transcript if/when it's released.

Aston04 said:

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Whens lunch said:

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For starters, I will admit I haven't read any updates on this accident to include who was in what seat.

I think the Pilot flying (a woman) was in the right seat. The pilot monitoring and PIC (a man) was in the left seat.

So, they land with a high sink rate and **** happens.

Was the pilot monitoring/PIC also an instructor or LCP? Have the cockpit voice recorder "tapes" been released?

If so, hell, screw "if so". WTF was he doing? Did he just sit there and let it happen? Crew of 2 They both screwed up. The PIC should eat this one, too.

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I'm not a pilot. But, I imagine it's very hard to grab the controls for the split couple seconds where crap hit the fan.

Very similar to the helicopter (incidentally also flown by a female) that hit a plane 3-4 weeks ago.

It will be interesting to see the CVR transcript if/when it's released.

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If you're a Capt. or instructor or a line check pilot, you can see it coming. It's your aircraft and your responsibility.

Aston04 said:

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Whens lunch said:

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For starters, I will admit I haven't read any updates on this accident to include who was in what seat.

I think the Pilot flying (a woman) was in the right seat. The pilot monitoring and PIC (a man) was in the left seat.

So, they land with a high sink rate and **** happens.

Was the pilot monitoring/PIC also an instructor or LCP? Have the cockpit voice recorder "tapes" been released?

If so, hell, screw "if so". WTF was he doing? Did he just sit there and let it happen? Crew of 2 They both screwed up. The PIC should eat this one, too.

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I'm not a pilot. But, I imagine it's very hard to grab the controls for the split couple seconds where crap hit the fan.

Very similar to the helicopter (incidentally also flown by a female) that hit a plane 3-4 weeks ago.

It will be interesting to see the CVR transcript if/when it's released.

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It's dangerous up there.

So, a very junior pilot on what amounted to a 'check ride' type of flight (I know that's not what they call it with Pax in the back) basically forgot to flair the landing this time? Is that what the pilots among us basically would theorize at this point with her name/experience out now?

Pilot here. I don't think she forgot to flair. By this point in her flight experience, flaring is subconscious muscle memory. I flew fixed-wing before rotary-wing. During rotary-wing training, we practiced "run on landings" simulating a loss of hydraulics where you have to maintain forward airspeed to avoid losing control of the aircraft and land the helicopter like an airplane. You cannot flair the helicopter like you would an airplane as you would bang the tail onto the ground. I would catch myself flaring the helicopter and had to tell myself each time, "don't flair". Due to the snow on the ground and blowing across the runway, I think she lost situational awareness and thought she was higher than she actually was and why the right wing was still banked so much to the right and the apparent absence of flair.

Ah, makes sense, thx.

What I don't understand about that theory is that there is an audible callout of elevation from the radio altimeter. I checked out some CRJ landing videos from cockpits. 100. 50, 40, 30, 20.....

The Kraken said:

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What I don't understand about that theory is that there is an audible callout of elevation from the radio altimeter. I checked out some CRJ landing videos from cockpits. 100. 50, 40, 30, 20.....

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True, but you flair based upon visual cues. snow covered runway, blowing snow can mess with those visual cues.

When pilots transition to a wide body from a something smaller (we had guy coming to the 777 from an MD88 or 737, occasionally), they had big problems at first because their visual cues had to be different.

We know there were strong, gusty winds that day. Why is no one talking about wind shear causing loss of lift right before landing

I am with you on the snow blowing messing with the visual. I dont get the pancaking the landing when the data I've seen of approach and final shows perfect descent rate. The wing down is correct for the direction of the crosswind.

I wonder if there was a lull in wind or gusts right at the end that caused them to drop.

ClickClack said:

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We know there were strong, gusty winds that day. Why is no one talking about wind shear causing loss of lift right before landing

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Good question, I'm sure in the end this will all get looked at.

Who knows, the chick pilot may have been scheduling a pedicure or something like that, important stuff

80sGeorge said:

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I am with you on the snow blowing messing with the visual. I dont get the pancaking the landing when the data I've seen of approach and final shows perfect descent rate. The wing down is correct for the direction of the crosswind.

I wonder if there was a lull in wind or gusts right at the end that caused them to drop.

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There are subconcious cues that a pilot uses when flaring or to begin flaring. Maybe the runway edges down the runway give you a clue. A sense of height can be derived from looking down the runway. Snow covered runway or blowing snow may obscure those cues. Cues can be messed with if you're used to a 150' wide runway and you encounter a wider one.

I read someone's post regarding a pretty stable descent rate right to impact. That just doesn't jibe with a loss of lift due to wind shear theory. Now gusty winds could have made her think she needed to "plant" the landing a little more than finessing it, but if so, that sure wasn't executed well.

Have we considered:

stetson said:

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Pilot here. I don't think she forgot to flair. By this point in her flight experience, flaring is subconscious muscle memory. I flew fixed-wing before rotary-wing. During rotary-wing training, we practiced "run on landings" simulating a loss of hydraulics where you have to maintain forward airspeed to avoid losing control of the aircraft and land the helicopter like an airplane. You cannot flair the helicopter like you would an airplane as you would bang the tail onto the ground. I would catch myself flaring the helicopter and had to tell myself each time, "don't flair". Due to the snow on the ground and blowing across the runway, I think she lost situational awareness and thought she was higher than she actually was and why the right wing was still banked so much to the right and the apparent absence of flair.

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Isn't there a voice that blurts out altitude on this plane? If so, then that means she was experiencing sensory suppression (and didn't hear it) and was likely freaking out at the mental workload all the way until she smacked the ground.

aTmAg said:

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stetson said:

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Pilot here. I don't think she forgot to flair. By this point in her flight experience, flaring is subconscious muscle memory. I flew fixed-wing before rotary-wing. During rotary-wing training, we practiced "run on landings" simulating a loss of hydraulics where you have to maintain forward airspeed to avoid losing control of the aircraft and land the helicopter like an airplane. You cannot flair the helicopter like you would an airplane as you would bang the tail onto the ground. I would catch myself flaring the helicopter and had to tell myself each time, "don't flair". Due to the snow on the ground and blowing across the runway, I think she lost situational awareness and thought she was higher than she actually was and why the right wing was still banked so much to the right and the apparent absence of flair.

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Isn't there a voice that blurts out altitude on this plane? If so, then that means she was experiencing sensory suppression (and didn't hear it) and was likely freaking out at the mental workload all the way until she smacked the ground.

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Yes, there are radio altimeter based callouts at 50,40, 30, 20, and 10. They are another cue, giving you obviously height above the runway, but also a sense of descent rate.

Mechanically flaring based on these callouts will eventually bite you in the ass, however.

Whens lunch said:

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For starters, I will admit I haven't read any updates on this accident to include who was in what seat.

I think the Pilot flying (a woman) was in the right seat. The pilot monitoring and PIC (a man) was in the left seat.

So, they land with a high sink rate and **** happens.

Was the pilot monitoring/PIC also an instructor or LCP? Have the cockpit voice recorder "tapes" been released?

If so, hell, screw "if so". WTF was he doing? Did he just sit there and let it happen? Crew of 2 They both screwed up. The PIC should eat this one, too.

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The PF crashed the jet in a moderate crosswind. The PM was the PIC and is responsible for the flight. He shares some blame. If the approach was unstable with a high sink rate he should have called a go around. If her approach was stable and within standards his responsibility to intervene is much more difficult because he's balancing it with her gaining confidence in crosswinds. Never in a million years would he have thought she wouldn't flare at all.

aTmAg said:

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stetson said:

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Pilot here. I don't think she forgot to flair. By this point in her flight experience, flaring is subconscious muscle memory. I flew fixed-wing before rotary-wing. During rotary-wing training, we practiced "run on landings" simulating a loss of hydraulics where you have to maintain forward airspeed to avoid losing control of the aircraft and land the helicopter like an airplane. You cannot flair the helicopter like you would an airplane as you would bang the tail onto the ground. I would catch myself flaring the helicopter and had to tell myself each time, "don't flair". Due to the snow on the ground and blowing across the runway, I think she lost situational awareness and thought she was higher than she actually was and why the right wing was still banked so much to the right and the apparent absence of flair.

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Isn't there a voice that blurts out altitude on this plane? If so, then that means she was experiencing sensory suppression (and didn't hear it) and was likely freaking out at the mental workload all the way until she smacked the ground.

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I flew military so I'm not familiar with general aviation schools. But I just discussed the crash with a captain who's deeply involved in GA and his son just got hired at a major. He specifically stated that many of the University flying schools like OU have very strict crosswind restrictions and don't allow the students to fly anywhere near aircraft limits. Probably insisted on my insurance companies. He told me many OU flight training graduates have issues with crosswinds. His words not mine but worth investigating

There was a comment on YouTube from an Endeavor pilot that actually flew this tail number. He said company limited them to either a 14 or 15 kt xwind component and they were right there at the limit.

Also said the book on the type limits to a 20 kt component due to wings being so low to ground.