memory is fallible. how are you certain that the sky used to be more clear?

Your eyes change as you age. Especially in the first decade of life. The sky WAS bluer when we were kids because our eyes were in better shape.
There have been articles written about it.

As for chem trails.

Chem trail dorks crack me up.
Aerosolized particles sprayed at 10's of thousands of feet. How "off target" do you think those "chemicals" get. Super effective. Lol.

It will be ok soon, RFK Jr. is going to fix it. He learned chemtrails were real from Woody Harrelson.

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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General Jack D. Ripper said:

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Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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as someone who is close to 50 i will never understand how people look in the sky today and say it is the same as it was 40 years ago.

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Please elaborate

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if you looked in the sky as a kid planes would fly over and their contrails would follow the plane and dissipate pretty quickly after the plane had moved on. many planes in the sky today still have contrails that still dissipate as they did when i was a kid but there are now other planes that fly highe that their trails do not dissipate in the same manner and actually spread out and form a thin layer like cloud.

i cannot tell you what the difference is but you have to be blind, to young, or a terrible memory not to recall that their is a difference.

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To my recollection, most of the trails when I was young took a good while to dissipate.

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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as someone who is close to 50 i will never understand how people look in the sky today and say it is the same as it was 40 years ago.

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As someone who is nearly 70, a farmer (outside more than most of you), a lifelong airplane nut, an inactive private pilot, interested in space travel and astronomy, someone who has applied chemicals for years. hold an Agronomy degree from A&M, worked in Ag Research, lives near a busy airway (near Amarillo), I'll say this:

Are there more contrails?

Yes there are, slightly. Air travel is cheaper than 40 years ago, and there are more planes in the sky.

Is there such a thing as chemtrails, or does the idea even make sense?

Not only no, but hell no.

There are some conspiracy theories with legs. This is not one of them. I hate to be harsh, but anyone who gives any credence to chemtrails is a fool.

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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there are now other planes that fly highe that their trails do not dissipate in the same manner and actually spread out and form a thin layer like cloud.

i cannot tell you what the difference is but you have to be blind, to young, or a terrible memory not to recall that their is a difference.

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More planes, less short hauls, more cross country flights, more private planes are jets than 40 years ago when corporate aviation was pistons or turboprops.

More planes flying higher = more contrails.

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i am going to give you a little nugget of info. the us military was cloud seeding and messing with the weather during the vietnam war. specifically over cambodia to make it difficult for the vietcong to move equipment through cambodia to attack. that was in the 60's and 70's. what they sprayed to make this happen is not a contrail. mow in the 60's and 70's did they spray this in the US? i don't believe so.

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Cloud seeding happens at relatively low altitudes. They disperse silver iodide below clouds to induce rainfall. Air currents carry it upward into developing storms,

I saw it done in the 60s and 70s in the Texas South Plains. They were trying to stop clouds from forming hail by making them rain, instead. It was tried several other places, too, to increase rainfall

The cloud seeding was done in twin cessna piston planes at about 5000 feet AGL, silver iodide generators strapped to the wings. I always thought those guys had balls of steel to fly in the turbulence under a developing thunderhead

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weird discolored rainbow prisms in the stratosphere

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Sun dogs? They form in the ice crystals at extremely high altitude (above aircraft)

My 7th grade science teacher talked about them in 1968

Anyone under about 40 would freak the f* out if we started having sonic booms again.

Infection_Ag11 said:

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Social media has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that, given enough time and energy invested into the endeavor, there is no idea too absurd to be believed by a statistically significant percentage of the population.

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So much this. The tinfoil hat fringe conservatives are becoming just as loony as libtards.

TheEternalOptimist said:

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GAC06 said:

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A lot of people don't know we defeated Japan and Germany with our chemtrails. Wake up, people!

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That would be pretty awesome if true.

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I think he meant it tongue-in-cheek. Look also at what Canyon77 is saying. Aviators know these contrails can take any number of forms depending on the kind of engines. In the picture there, the top is the Battle of the Philippine Sea with fighters, the bottom is B-17s in the European theater.

Curious though -- was the Viet Nam era seeding to interfere with supply columns successful, or just attempted?

Kids need to go back and playing the mosquito spray like we did as kids

Low altitude chemtrails

I am unable to post a cirrus response.

I don't know what form of cloud "seeding" it is but it's not normal. I'm convinced it's not normal at this point. Whether it's water vapor or something else.

Kyle Field Shade Chaser said:

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I don't know what form of cloud "seeding" it is but it's not normal. I'm convinced it's not normal at this point. Whether it's water vapor or something else.

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It's not cloud seeding.

It's not a damn thing.

It's simply water vapor, disturbed by the passage of an aircraft.

You couldn't carry enough chemical in a C-5A Galaxy to distribute a detectable level of chemicals from 30,000 feet. And that's without carrying a load of passengers

I guess I've never really noticed it. I'm sure much more air traffic than 30-50 years ago and then tons of pollution over the decades has increased this phenomenon.

You should change your username to Bat Soup

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/06/30/white-house-releases-report-on-solar-geoengineering.html

one of my best friends is a fighter pilot. i have heard him be asked the questions about chemtrails a bunch by randoms that see him in uniform.

the other hilarious question i've heard him be asked (more than once) is "Have you seen the curvature of the earth? Is it actually round?"


so there are people out there that are generally curious and not antagonizing. they want to believe!

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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weird discolored rainbow prisms in the stratosphere

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Sun dogs? They form in the ice crystals at extremely high altitude (above aircraft)

My 7th grade science teacher talked about them in 1968

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Maybe that's the problem, I went to public school in the late 80's and 90's and they just kept scaring us about the hole in the ozone layer and how we and our parents are directly responsible for the upcoming catastrophe resulting from it. Among a lot of other BS.

Honestly, the best explanation on this thread for the change in appearance of the sky over time is just the fact that our eyes age, even if our vision is still good. That makes the most sense to me.

Chemtrails might be crazy, but there are tons of rational sane non-conspiracy-theory folks online who have observed this same phenomenon as well.

STAFF deleted my first post, sadly, but the description of people who believe in this nonsense was accurate.

Anyway, for the rest of the post, all these contrails are nothing more than simple thermodynamics at work in the atmosphere. Moisture vapor compressing/expanding, temperatures changing too.

fc2112 said:

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BTW - "chemtrails" is a misnomer. These are called "contrails", which is short for condensation trails.

The condensation can be from engine exhaust or from higher pressure under the wing wrapping around the wing tip to get to the lower pressure above the wing. (spoiler alert - it's the difference in pressure above and below the wing that creates lift and makes the airplane fly).

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If you don't know the difference of a chemtrail and a contrail... you have no business with this topic.

Try me. I won't be back. Do your own research.

JamesPShelley said:

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fc2112 said:

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BTW - "chemtrails" is a misnomer. These are called "contrails", which is short for condensation trails.

The condensation can be from engine exhaust or from higher pressure under the wing wrapping around the wing tip to get to the lower pressure above the wing. (spoiler alert - it's the difference in pressure above and below the wing that creates lift and makes the airplane fly).

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If you don't know the difference of a chemtrail and a contrail... you have no business with this topic.

Try me. I won't be back. Do your own research.

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The difference between a chemtrail and a contrail is that contrails exist

They did this in Atascosa County when I was a kid in the 90's.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Kyle Field Shade Chaser said:

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I don't know what form of cloud "seeding" it is but it's not normal. I'm convinced it's not normal at this point. Whether it's water vapor or something else.

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It's not cloud seeding.

It's not a damn thing.

It's simply water vapor, disturbed by the passage of an aircraft.

You couldn't carry enough chemical in a C-5A Galaxy to distribute a detectable level of chemicals from 30,000 feet. And that's without carrying a load of passengers

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Devil's advocate...again...I do not by into the chemtrails conspiracies...but if you just wanted to present long term exposure to very light amounts of chemicals...I bet it might be physically possible. The problem is ineptitude of government and how many collaborators (potential whistle blowers) it would require. But I believe we could certainly poison people (esp in urban centers) with trace amounts of toxins or substances over time from the sky if we wanted to.

Say you wanted to alter hormones over time by a modest to moderate percentage...there are some substances that can wreck your endocrine balance if you just get a little bit on your skin. I do not think this is what has happened with mens' testosterone rates and women starting to hit puberty and menstruate much earlier...that is far more likely to be poor diet and fitness, plastics and other phtalates estrogenic compounds that we constantly consume. And probably less cigarette smoking and tobacco usage, in regards to testosterone plummeting.

Honestly, if we ever approach a true civil war or widescale unrest SHTF scenario, our government would be idiots NOT to release pacifying chemicals of some sort over certain regions, if they had the capability to do so. I bet you anything it has AT LEAST been studied (aerial chemical approaches to subduing populations, particularly foreign).

Both could be true.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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weird discolored rainbow prisms in the stratosphere

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Sun dogs? They form in the ice crystals at extremely high altitude (above aircraft)

My 7th grade science teacher talked about them in 1968

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Agreed.

Light passing through a water droplet and/or an ice crystal creating the colors due to reflection and refraction if I remember correctly.

Well the state of Florida is taking this seriously.

Don't act like the sociopaths in our government don't have a sordid history of conducting nuclear, biological and chemical experiments on US citizens without their knowledge or consent.

You mean, a few idiot state congress critters are taking it seriously.

Chemtrail conspiracy is between flat earth and moon landing conspiracies on the stupidity scale.

For it to be true, you would have to keep millions of people on the take to keep their mouths shut worldwide. From politicians to lowly airplane maintenance techs. It's completely ridiculous.

Even if that were somehow to happen, and everyone was staying quiet about the subject, the end goal still makes zero sense. Who profits off of poisoning urban centers?

I don't know if chemtrails are a real thing or not, but outright dismissing the possibility and flatly refusing to consider any evidence that may point to it is on par with taking the covid vaccine in 2020. It requires a dangerously naive level of trust in a completely untrustworthy government.

What evidence? I don't trust the government. I do trust that if every plane on earth were secretly poisoning us for the past 30 years, one of the millions of people that would have to be involved would have blabbed with actual evidence, not "this sure seems strange," nonsense. I also trust that people are motivated by profits. I don't see how anyone profits by purposely poisoning the air.

CanyonAg77 said:

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You mean, a few idiot state congress critters are taking it seriously.

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Can you, or someone else who thinks the government has never and would never mess with our air or harm us in any way, refute the three experiments outlined in the first 5 minutes of that video? I am assuming these never happened and he is making them up?

Also, his claim that Bill Gates and Harvard have proposed spraying reflective particles into the atmosphere to help dim the sun and cool the earth is definitely true. I actually remember hearing about that one after watching this vid.