They leaving? We can only dream.

The anti-academic, anti-intellectual mood around here is almost Maoist

BlueSmoke said:

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And go where? Most have a limited skill-set in a limited field of study?

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If they move as a group: Hot air mass.

"…..who responded……".

Yeah, that's scientific.

Actual Talking Thermos said:

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The anti-academic, anti-intellectual mood around here is almost Maoist

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You should consider moving too. You don't want to live with Neanderthals who use horse medicine do you?

That's be a good start…

agaberto said:

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https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00938-y

The trend was particularly pronounced among early-career researchers. Of the 690 postgraduate researchers who responded, 548 were considering leaving; 255 of 340 PhD students said the same.




These are academically brainwashed people that have nothing in common with our country's values. Now that Elon is getting rid of all the waste, fraud and abuse, their gravy train has been derailed and they have no reason to stay.

Don't let the screen door hit you on the way out.

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A survey with a leading question gave the "researchers" the desired outcome?

Who would have thunk it?

That's some "elite" surveying right there

Actual Talking Thermos said:

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The anti-academic, anti-intellectual mood around here is almost Maoist

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My attempts to Shanghai this thread have failed.


Fortunately ...

SunrayAg said:

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Actually I have a good friend with a phd who left a university job as a researcher because he was tired of being told his results before his did the study.

Because desired results = more funding.

Undesirable results = no funding.

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This is like "studies have shown women make 71 cents to a man's dollar". They come up with the number, and fix the evidence to "prove" it.

Actual Talking Thermos said:

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The anti-academic, anti-intellectual mood around here is almost Maoist

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We already know who is maoist...

1,650 responses. How many were polled? Did the 75% of respondents just self identify with the bigoted left?

As a PhD and a former tenured professor, I applaud these efforts. First, train more citizens and less foreign nationals. Two, focus on core issues like food, defense and health. Three, streamline and have regional/state research efforts with some level of redundancy built it to ensure accuracy and reliability, but reduce the amount of research doing the exact same work in 40 different university labs. If we streamlined research we could be inhabiting the moon and Mars already, hell look at what Space X and others have done privately built on the backbone of federal funding and research, that should be the model not hey I find this area interesting and inspiring so I'm going to study the life cycle habits of planaria worms for 40 years or mating habits of people with multiple piercings and blue hair.

I see just the opposite. I see scientists queueing for the few positions in academics that become available. They are no doubt "polling" foreign scientists who cannot find permanent work.

We got to stop this obsession with helping foreigners. It is a form of white man's guilt.

Let's take care of ourselves first. We take out huge debt and send it as donations to the world.
Weird weird.

titan said:

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This might concern more if it were not for the recent instances of these equity oaths and about the past that was going on in the medical school graduation ceremonies up Midwest that Prager talked about back in the Biden period.

The trend of present science activism is not so encouraging and maybe fresh post-Biden ones embarking on it will work out better.

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Yes, and the total collapse of Peer Review was causing doubts about the value of academic research funding well before Trump and Elon were anywhere near their funding. Atlantic Monthly and other liberal establishment publications were very concerned about it before Covid.

Actual Talking Thermos said:

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The anti-academic, anti-intellectual mood around here is almost Maoist

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Cat owners?

Doh!

I read that as meowists.

And I wonder how many of them are "climate" researchers living off the terror of "climate change"?

They need to fear and leave for they are about to lose that money flow from Uncle Sam.

Actual Talking Thermos said:

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I'm going to be the voice that says this is Bad

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Jugstore Cowboy said:

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titan said:

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This might concern more if it were not for the recent instances of these equity oaths and about the past that was going on in the medical school graduation ceremonies up Midwest that Prager talked about back in the Biden period.

The trend of present science activism is not so encouraging and maybe fresh post-Biden ones embarking on it will work out better.

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Yes, and the total collapse of Peer Review was causing doubts about the value of academic research funding well before Trump and Elon were anywhere near their funding. Atlantic Monthly and other liberal establishment publications were very concerned about it before Covid.

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That's true. It had been realized the trend of imposed consensus on any work that diverged undermines the very nature of legitimate science. Or the other side of it -- that so much was not being vetted properly if it did conform with the outcome wanted.

Let's see.

For years we have been told that we should "follow the science".

1) But much of science seems (research pubs) have been non-reproducible (at best) or outright fraud.

2)The single greated failure of science for many was COVID, an indefensible attempt to control free speach and behavior based on secret research (how are those vaccine trials results coming?). Science was used as a bludgeon and turned many lives upside dowm.

3) In general, males are not really welcomed by academia. Especially white males. Much fewer opportunities (proportioinally) for admittance and scholorships. Once you get in, you want to have a bad day, let a coed file a Title 9 against you.

4) a huge amount ot the research money is allocated on the basis of supporting one side of the politic, from sociology, to education, to biology, to climate change.

I could rant on forever, and I was both faculty and chair.

So why shouldn't the majority of this forum be leaning "anti-intellectual"? If that means equal opportunity, tangible results, and value? It is hard for anyone, not a prof or current admin, to argue that we are currently getting any of these things under the current system.

Actual Talking Thermos said:

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I'm going to be the voice that always defends Democrat idiocy

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FIFY

SunrayAg said:

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Actually I have a good friend with a phd who left a university job as a researcher because he was tired of being told his results before his did the study.

Because desired results = more funding.

Undesirable results = no funding.

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This is the type of excuse that 99% of academics who were unsuccessful securing research funding say when their contract wasn't renewed in the probationary period before tenure.

Over_ed said:

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Let's see.

For years we have been told that we should "follow the science".

1) But much of science seems (research pubs) have been non-reproducible (at best) or outright fraud.

2)The single greated failure of science for many was COVID, an indefensible attempt to control free speach and behavior based on secret research (how are those vaccine trials results coming?). Science was used as a bludgeon and turned many lives upside dowm.

3) In general, males are not really welcomed by academia. Especially white males. Much fewer opportunities (proportioinally) for admittance and scholorships. Once you get in, you want to have a bad day, let a coed file a Title 9 against you.

4) a huge amount ot the research money is allocated on the basis of supporting one side of the politic, from sociology, to education, to biology, to climate change.

I could rant on forever, and I was both faculty and chair.

So why shouldn't the majority of this forum be leaning "anti-intellectual"? If that means equal opportunity, tangible results, and value? It is hard for anyone, not a prof or current admin, to argue that we are currently getting any of these things under the current system.

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Well said.

Adios mofo!

"Considering" leaving? Well, for the first time in your ****ing life, do something. Be someone, Just leave, don't just consider it. "Scientist" my ass. Wearing a lab coat with a pocket protector and high water pants and poor personal hygiene no more makes you a scientist than it makes you the man in the moon.

This country just becomes stupider if they leave lol

How many of them are Americans vs foreigners living here because we gave them money for "research"?

this would be a huge win for the USA

Actual Talking Thermos said:

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The anti-academic, anti-intellectual mood around here is almost Maoist

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Read the thread again. We are the ones wanting a return to real science using the scientific method. What has already been proven before Trump came along is how much of what is being researched is simply b.s. to generate a pre-ordained outcome. This is public knowledge.

Getting the far left wing money out of this process will only help science.

YouBet said:

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Actual Talking Thermos said:

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The anti-academic, anti-intellectual mood around here is almost Maoist

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Read the thread again. We are the ones wanting a return to real science using the scientific method. What has already been proven before Trump came along is how much of what is being researched is simply b.s. to generate a pre-ordained outcome. This is public knowledge.

Getting the far left wing money out of this process will only help science.

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The standard is "statistical significance." If I can show statistical significance then I've "proven" something.

The problem is (generally) statistics can be massaged to make it show whatever you want from any given dataset.

I left basic science a few years ago in part because I did not want to participate in a)the hiring and abuse of foreign nationals for cheap labor and b) the hiring and abuse of domestic graduate students for cheap labor. It was sad how low the morale of graduate students was becoming and then to top it all off, abusive PIs are not being disciplined if they are enough of a money maker for the institution.

The problem right now is that because of the federal cancellation of funding, our institution is losing the operation expenses they usually take off the top from federal grants and so we are experiencing austerity measures with no advanced warning. Schools did not have a backup plan for if the government money pot dried up all of a sudden.