If the government can print money out if thin air, why do we have to pay taxes?

1,903 Views | 36 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by one safe place
Its Texas Aggies, dammit
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Because it is a humiliation ritual.
rocky the dog
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Elections are when people find out what politicians stand for, and politicians find out what people will fall for.
Maroon Dawn
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I asked this before and the conclusion is that taxes do 3 things in a fiat currency system:

1) They help create the illusion of value (since your belief in a dollar is now the only thing that gives it value) and by taking them away from you it reinforces the psychological link that this paper and ink is valuable and desirable

2) It helps control inflation by taking existing dollars out of circulation

3) And most important (for them) It lets politicians pick winners and losers through the tax code
Tailgate88
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Ever heard of USAID? The Somali grift shouldn't surprise anyone. And I bet there is much more to come.

This is why the left was so desperate to stop Trump.
Logos Stick
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That doesn't take money out of circulation. The government spends it instead. The primary way money is taken out of the system is the Federal reserve selling it's assets to banks or allowing the assets to mature.
Tailgate88
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Tailgate88 said:

Ever heard of USAID? The Somali grift shouldn't surprise anyone. And I bet there is much more to come.

This is why the left was so desperate to stop Trump.


And less than five minutes later I see this breaking news…

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-era-rental-assistance-included-payments-dead-tenants-non-citizens-new-hud-report-reveals
Logos Stick
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All.this corruption by the Dems is infuriating.

I'm sick of this crap! The producers of this nation who do the right thing get screwed by the Dems. USAID, illegals and welfare, loan forgiveness, rampant abuse and corruption, etc

If I could get away with it, I'd withdraw all my money from my IRA and not pay a single penny of taxes on it.
ts5641
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rocky the dog said:



We've created a mess we can never get out of.
ts5641
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Tailgate88 said:

Ever heard of USAID? The Somali grift shouldn't surprise anyone. And I bet there is much more to come.

This is why the left was so desperate to stop Trump.

I think it's still why even the GOP isn't fully onboard with Trump. Just look at Congress. Thune and Johnson have been absolute clown shows. They're literally not doing anything and just biding time until Trump is out of office and can fully get back to their corruption.
flown-the-coop
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rocky the dog said:



Underwood-Simmons Tariff Act happened. Trump is fixing it!
Who?mikejones!
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Its beyond time to throw the tea in the harbor again
eric76
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Taxing Capital Gains is a big scam.

You end up paying taxes on inflation.
deddog
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And yet some morons demand the "rich" pay their "fair share"
No Spin Ag
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To give to private companies through government contracts would be one of the bigger reasons.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
boulderaggie
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External revenue service.
Also, we don't pay taxes, the government takes taxes. It's your money.
Helicopter Ben
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Maroon Dawn said:

I asked this before and the conclusion is that taxes do 3 things in a fiat currency system:

1) They help create the illusion of value (since your belief in a dollar is now the only thing that gives it value) and by taking them away from you it reinforces the psychological link that this paper and ink is valuable and desirable

2) It helps control inflation by taking existing dollars out of circulation

3) And most important (for them) It lets politicians pick winners and losers through the tax code

EOT with this explanation.
Ag_of_08
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Logos Stick said:

All.this corruption by the Dems is infuriating.

I'm sick of this crap! The producers of this nation who do the right thing get screwed by the Dems. USAID, illegals and welfare, loan forgiveness, rampant abuse and corruption, etc

If I could get away with it, I'd withdraw all my money from my IRA and not pay a single penny of taxes on it.


...dems? Try politicians period. The level of corruption in the texas legislature, looong held by the Republicans, is incredible. Forget the amount of pork and corruption in bith parties at the highest levels.

Sorry dude, this isnt one you get to trot out some meme to counter either.
Tom Fox
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It helps to ossify the class structure and limits the middle class from moving into the wealthy class. It slows the transition.
Detmersdislocatedshoulder
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it's an illusion to keep the powers that be rich and in control. if we ever figured it out tbis nightmare would be over within 24 hrs. alas we fight non stop amongst ourselves for the scraps they throw off their tables. it's quite sad.
TexasRebel
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It helps the numbers stay closer to zero when money printer goes Brrrrrrt.
Yukon Cornelius
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eric76 said:

Taxing Capital Gains is a big scam.

You end up paying taxes on inflation.


Amen. Cap gain taxes limit your upside but you're fully exposed to the downside.
flown-the-coop
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eric76 said:

Taxing Capital Gains is a big scam.

You end up paying taxes on inflation.

Cap gains taxes are dumb because they are a headwind on capital investment.

You really have to pretzel to call it a tax on inflation. In that since, FIT is also a tax on inflation.
BQ_90
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TexasRebel said:

It helps the numbers stay closer to zero when money printer goes Brrrrrrt.

Well not sure about this since it's been a long time since number has been close to zero
doubledog
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If the Biden years have taught us anything it is that printing huge amounts of money out of thin air will lead to rapid inflation. Funny it seems that we re-learn that lesson with every generation (of Democrats).
IIIHorn
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Printing more currency devalues the currency.

Helicopter Ben
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Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

it's an illusion to keep the powers that be rich and in control. if we ever figured it out tbis nightmare would be over within 24 hrs. alas we fight non stop amongst ourselves for the scraps they throw off their tables. it's quite sad.

While I agree with the sentiment, I think the bigger problem is that most people simply don't understand money to begin with. And by most, I'm thinking 95% or more.

Ask anyone from a total dumb dumb, to your average Joe, and all the way on up to the intellectual class, and they will not have even close to a correct understanding of money. We could tear the whole system down, start over, and nobody would be able to agree on the system to replace it. I'd be more than happy with this scenario if that meant a free market and voluntarism. But as we know, democracy tends to form arrangements that can't be voluntary. Eliminate legal tender laws and let the free market decide what is money. Of course thatll never happen because basically all of the power our government has, both domestically and internationally, comes from the power to control our money.
SociallyConditionedAg
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Maroon Dawn said:

I asked this before and the conclusion is that taxes do 3 things in a fiat currency system:

1) They help create the illusion of value (since your belief in a dollar is now the only thing that gives it value) and by taking them away from you it reinforces the psychological link that this paper and ink is valuable and desirable

2) It helps control inflation by taking existing dollars out of circulation

3) And most important (for them) It lets politicians pick winners and losers through the tax code

Ron Paul said this decades ago. The only reason the government requires taxes in US dollars is to prop up the system. If dollars were just created to pay taxes, the people would easily see right through it and the dollar would disintegrate.
bmks270
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Taxes create demand for USD.
TexasRebel
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BQ_90 said:

TexasRebel said:

It helps the numbers stay closer to zero when money printer goes Brrrrrrt.

Well not sure about this since it's been a long time since number has been close to zero


"Closer to zero" does not have to be anywhere close to zero.

-31,000,000,000,000 is closer to zero than -46,000,000,000,000
eric76
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Helicopter Ben said:

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

it's an illusion to keep the powers that be rich and in control. if we ever figured it out tbis nightmare would be over within 24 hrs. alas we fight non stop amongst ourselves for the scraps they throw off their tables. it's quite sad.

While I agree with the sentiment, I think the bigger problem is that most people simply don't understand money to begin with. And by most, I'm thinking 95% or more.

Ask anyone from a total dumb dumb, to your average Joe, and all the way on up to the intellectual class, and they will not have even close to a correct understanding of money. We could tear the whole system down, start over, and nobody would be able to agree on the system to replace it. I'd be more than happy with this scenario if that meant a free market and voluntarism. But as we know, democracy tends to form arrangements that can't be voluntary. Eliminate legal tender laws and let the free market decide what is money. Of course thatll never happen because basically all of the power our government has, both domestically and internationally, comes from the power to control our money.

how familiar are you with legal tender/

to the best of my recollection, if you owe a debt, the holder of that debt can require you to pay the debt in legal tender. that does not mean that the holder of the debt must be paid in legal tender. if you can come into an agreement with the holder of the debt to accept something else, that is legal.

For example, if you owe me $5 i can be required to accept $5. but if you offered me 18 fresh chicken eggs, I might be happy to accept that instead.

As far as buying something in a store, if you can come to an agreement on an alternate form of payment with the store owner, that's fine. The store owner is not required to price the item in dollars and cents since a transaction does not create a debt.

Imagine what could happen if there were no legal tender. if you owe someone $5, they would be able to demand payment in whatever they wished. If they wanted to be paid by you mowing their lawn in payment, then start mowing.

It seems to me that legal tender is a benefit to us.
eric76
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flown-the-coop said:

eric76 said:

Taxing Capital Gains is a big scam.

You end up paying taxes on inflation.

Cap gains taxes are dumb because they are a headwind on capital investment.

You really have to pretzel to call it a tax on inflation. In that since, FIT is also a tax on inflation.

Suppose you buy 100 shares of XYZ Company for $5,000 and suppose that you sell it in five years for $5,500.

it is entirely possible that the stock lost money in real terms. If inflation was 3% per year for that five years, it has less value than what you paid for it, but you would still have to pay taxes on that $500 increase.

Similarly, if the stock doubles in price, and inflation was 3% per year, then it was worth more, but you still have to pay taxes on the part that it increased relative to inflation as well as the part that it actually increased in value.

If that isn't a tax on inflation, then there is no such thing as a tax on inflation.
flown-the-coop
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eric76 said:

flown-the-coop said:

eric76 said:

Taxing Capital Gains is a big scam.

You end up paying taxes on inflation.

Cap gains taxes are dumb because they are a headwind on capital investment.

You really have to pretzel to call it a tax on inflation. In that since, FIT is also a tax on inflation.

Suppose you buy 100 shares of XYZ Company for $5,000 and suppose that you sell it in five years for $5,500.

it is entirely possible that the stock lost money in real terms. If inflation was 3% per year for that five years, it has less value than what you paid for it, but you would still have to pay taxes on that $500 increase.

Similarly, if the stock doubles in price, and inflation was 3% per year, then it was worth more, but you still have to pay taxes on the part that it increased relative to inflation as well as the part that it actually increased in value.

If that isn't a tax on inflation, then there is no such thing as a tax on inflation.

So you want a tax deduction equal to inflation or else you think all taxes are taxes on inflation.

Makes absolutely zero sense. But you do you.
Its Texas Aggies, dammit
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flown-the-coop said:

eric76 said:

flown-the-coop said:

eric76 said:

Taxing Capital Gains is a big scam.

You end up paying taxes on inflation.

Cap gains taxes are dumb because they are a headwind on capital investment.

You really have to pretzel to call it a tax on inflation. In that since, FIT is also a tax on inflation.

Suppose you buy 100 shares of XYZ Company for $5,000 and suppose that you sell it in five years for $5,500.

it is entirely possible that the stock lost money in real terms. If inflation was 3% per year for that five years, it has less value than what you paid for it, but you would still have to pay taxes on that $500 increase.

Similarly, if the stock doubles in price, and inflation was 3% per year, then it was worth more, but you still have to pay taxes on the part that it increased relative to inflation as well as the part that it actually increased in value.

If that isn't a tax on inflation, then there is no such thing as a tax on inflation.

So you want a tax deduction equal to inflation or else you think all taxes are taxes on inflation.

Makes absolutely zero sense. But you do you.


Just don't tax capital gains. Taxing them is punishment for trying to avoid inflation.
Helicopter Ben
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This article explains the problem with legal tender laws better than I ever could:

https://mises.org/mises-wire/monetary-tyranny-how-legal-tender-laws-paved-way-and-how-competition-sets-us-free

TLDR snip from the article:
"If a man of sound mind agrees to settle a contract in X, then he should be obligated to pay X. Forcing him to accept anything other than X as payment is an egregious violation of contractual and property rights."
techno-ag
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IIIHorn said:

Printing more currency devalues the currency.


You are on the money.
The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
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