Pain don't hurt!

Mega Lops said:

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Hospital billing, medical insurance and the repeated finger pointing between the hospital and insurance persists because there is so much money to be made.

Efficiency in billing would make a lot of very wealthy people unhappy. Therefore it is allowed to happen.

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No, it persists because the processes are over complicated, and there is a lot of turnover in staffing at both ends with staff who aren't always trained properly in the first place. Pointing fingers is a lot easier than admitting mistakes were made in front of an irate patient or member. Doctors will blame the insurance company reflexively. Customer service reps blame the doctors reflexively. There's no conspiracy here. It's simple CYA instincts.

Old_Ag_91 said:

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Blue cross blue shield of Arkansas

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I guarantee you that BCBSAR was not the one demanding a quarter million for charges related to anesthesia. That's not an insurance problem.

LarryLayman said:

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In the last five years do you have more respect or less respect for the medical profession?

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Less. Way, way, way less.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Seamaster said:

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Medical care is the only financial transaction that we consent to without having any inking of what it's going to cost.

I can't believe we put up with it.

Imagine going to a restaurant or buying an appliance and not knowing the cost until they bill you. Sounds nuts? But that's what we do with healthcare.

The whole system is beyond broken.

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"Hey, Mr. Builder, I want a house. How much will it cost?"

"I don't know. How big do you want it? What do you want it made of?"

"I can't tell you. Just give me a price and let's sign a contract."

*Dial Tone*


It's not broken. Doctors, ER's, and hospitals simply can't give you a price for something they know nothing about when you walk in the door the same way a builder can't give you a price for a home he knows nothing about. My son went to the pediatrician last year because he was sick and having trouble breathing. His oxygen was low and didn't come up enough with different steroid treatments, so he ended up in the hospital and staying overnight. Could they have quoted me a price for seeing him at the pediatrician's front desk? What are they supposed to do, eat everything after the $120 for the pediatrician visit or charge everyone $5k for every visit just in case they end up admitted? Medicine is simply filled with unknowns and often very short and hard timelines. There are certainly games played with billing and insurance, but the cash price afterwards can't be given to you upfront for something like an ER visit, and it's going to be way more than an urgent care or GP purely because you're paying for the existence and availability of the facility to treat almost anything.

If you go get an elective procedure, most of the time they're going to work with your insurance beforehand and give you a ballpark or exact price.

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No, it's definitely broken.

Medaggie said:

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agracer said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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BusterAg said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Seamaster said:

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Medical care is the only financial transaction that we consent to without having any inking of what it's going to cost.

I can't believe we put up with it.

Imagine going to a restaurant or buying an appliance and not knowing the cost until they bill you. Sounds nuts? But that's what we do with healthcare.

The whole system is beyond broken.

---

"Hey, Mr. Builder, I want a house. How much will it cost?"

"I don't know. How big do you want it? What do you want it made of?"

"I can't tell you. Just give me a price and let's sign a contract."

*Dial Tone*


It's not broken. Doctors, ER's, and hospitals simply can't give you a price for something they know nothing about when you walk in the door the same way a builder can't give you a price for a home he knows nothing about. My son went to the pediatrician last year because he was sick and having trouble breathing. His oxygen was low and didn't come up enough with different steroid treatments, so he ended up in the hospital and staying overnight. Could they have quoted me a price for seeing him at the pediatrician's front desk? What are they supposed to do, eat everything after the $120 for the pediatrician visit or charge everyone $5k for every visit just in case they end up admitted? Medicine is simply filled with unknowns and often very short and hard timelines. There are certainly games played with billing and insurance, but the cash price afterwards can't be given to you upfront for something like an ER visit, and it's going to be way more than an urgent care or GP purely because you're paying for the existence and availability of the facility to treat almost anything.

If you go get an elective procedure, most of the time they're going to work with your insurance beforehand and give you a ballpark or exact price.

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This is crap.

When you go to a restaurant, you don't ask for a price for dinner upfront before you order. You order, and then you pay for what you get, and the prices are provided prior to your order.

There are zero reasons why medicine can't be the same way. Sure, you don't know how much your stay is going to cost you when you go to the ER, but you will know how much you are going to get charged for every service you consume.

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This is crap.

When you go to a restaurant, you don't ask for a price up front before you order because they're on the menu and you pick what you want. If you go the ER, you're not picking from a menu. If your wife is giving birth and so of a sudden needs a c-section, it's not like you get to say, "No, no. Put her labor on hold, were going down the street because their c-sections are cheaper, unless you guys want to price match."

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This is crap. If I walk into an ER with chest pain you're going to start asking questions, probably hook me up to a monitor and order some tests. There is no reason whatsoever someone cannot tell me what those tests will cost. Yes, what happens after the tests may may be set in stone, but a lot of that up front costs should be known. And even after the tests you'll have a pretty good idea what is going on and know the next steps are going to be X, Y and maybe Z. Again, no reason someone can't tell me those X, Y, and Z costs or at least a good approximation.

and WTF does a CAT scan at the hospital cost 10x the amount as at a stand alone image center? There is no reason for that huge difference.

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You are trying to tell a story without knowing the details nor how the details makes your story fiction.

One of the details you are missing in the ER is EMTALA and required Medical screening exams. ERs are required to fulfill minimum evaluations to rule out emergencies without discussion of costs. If you walk into the ER, doc is required to do an MSE. If you walk out, your insurance still gets billed. Doc and staff has spent time/charting/resources to evaluate you. 3K please.

Also, what cost are you asking for? Is it the uninsured cost? The medicare cost? The medicaid cost? The Oscar plan costs? The UNH cost? The BCBS cost? The other 100+ insurance carrier costs?

Ahhhh, you have BCBS? Do you want the BCBS gold plan cost? The blue plan costs? The medicare plan costs? or the other 20 variants?

Ahhh, you have the BCBS gold plan costs.... Do you want the high deductible costs? The high copay costs? The other 10 variations of the plan?

Ahhhh you have the BCBS gold plan with high deductible..... Do you have the 5K deductible, the $10K deductible, or the $20K deductible?


Ahhhh you have the BCBS gold plan with high deductible at 10K..... Do you have 10K left, do you have 5K left, do you have 1K left, or have you used up all your deductible?


Let me get back to you in 2 hrs to let you know what your out of pocket costs will be for this blood draw, EKG, and CXR......

Hey conscientious pt, you will need a CT scan and some meds. Let me run the CT scan, 5 meds you are getting, the monitoring, the tylenol, the other 20 charges. and give you a price for each.

10 hrs later we finally get prices for about 40 charges to you. The waiting room now have 50 people deep because now it took me 15 hrs to get you home and flip the room rather than 3 hrs.


Problem with these threads is everyone thinks they are neurosurgeons and can do brain surgery because they know a family member who had brain surgery. You know just enough to think you can do brain surgery but the complexity is more than you can imagine. Our current structure/law/practice of medicine/uncertainty of medicine makes giving you a firm number impossible.

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Medaggie, you are 100% spot on. Everyone else, pay attention. This is reality.

Let's not act like some doctors and doctor facilities don't also have a hand in it though.

I went to one group of doctors (PT/chiropractor) and they offered me a "free welcome pack" that included a TENS unit, two year supply of batteries, and some sort of back stretching thing. As a "welcome to our practice." They pulled the boxes out from a cabinet that was filled with these things and handed it to me, and literally told me it was a free welcome pack. Then I get the EOB from insurance and they had billed my insurance company for it to the tune of like $850. Granted, insurance only approved a portion of it, like around $100. But still. That's shady as hell if you ask me.

Another doctor's office did similar, but with back braces. "Free" back braces to help with my back pain. Then EOB comes in the mail and they billed several hundred for each brace, plus they billed additional charges to "advise and instruct" me how to put it on to the tune of several more hundred dollars. Then I get on Amazon, and the braces are like $35-40/each.

Somehow Hospitals have to find a way to recoup money for all the people who don't pay.

Medaggie said:

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Wow, so much ignorance on this thread that I will regret jumping in.

#1 - Your 15K bill is just an imaginary number. The Hospital ER, free standing ER, or any other ER will get a fraction of this. All insurance payments vary but most places would be lucky to get even $1500 for the visit
#2 - There are insurance rules and billing is pegged to the medicare rates. ERs, clinics, doctor's offices, or whatever follows codes and can not just arbitrarily make up charges
#3 - Hospital based ERs overall charges more than stand alone Ers. I do billing reviews so I know. I have seen many hospital based ER bills charge 50K+ for labs/CT scan.
#4 - ERs are opened 24 hrs/dy and required to see everyone including uninsured. Medicare/medicaid are loss leaders
#5 - Comparing/pricing medicine to picking out a steak is plain ignorant. You walk into Flemings and they give you 10 choices for steak and 20 add ons. You make 100% of the choice so they can price for profit. You go to the ER with chest pain and how the heck should they know what kind of evaluation is required? It could be a simple muscle pull go home or it could be an aortic dissection. This restaurant analogy to medicine would only be true if you walked in, pick what you want done, and the doctor have zero say in your choice. I doubt you can walk into a restaurant, tell them you are hungry and they will give you a price. A child hungry could be a fries and coke. An adult hungry could be 3 cocktails, seafood tower, Tomahawk Ribeye, Salad, and desert. Tell me how you will price if someone tells you they are hungry?
#6 - 50-75% of traditional ERs visits are loss leaders. Uninsured, medicare, medicaid all are net negative to the bottom line. If insured are not profit leaders, there would be no ERs.

There seem to be lots of lawyers here. What if the law stated that
1. your law office had to be opened 24 hrs a day fully staffed
2. that you had to see everyone that walks in before payment
3. that you are required to be versed in all forms of law from O&G to trial to estate planning to immigration to everything else
4. that you are required to work their case and if a bad outcome happened you will be sued
5. that 40% will not pay you anything, that 35% will pay you $10-$25/hr
6. that you will be paid in about 6-12 months or maybe not at all even if they have law insurance requiring hours of work including sending in countless forms


How would you price payment if they happened to have law insurance? Are you charging them the customary $300/hr? Of course not unless you would be happy getting paid about $75/hr blended. Yes that $75/hr goes to paying all of your bills.

Look up how much ER docs make. Yeah they do well but they no better than 50% tile in the house of medicine. If ERs were making so much off your 15K, why do you think most ERs are not profitable?

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You forgot #7 for the lawyers: that they also must pass annual "lawyering quality" audits with Lawcare Effectiveness Data and Information Set (LEDIS) data required by the Center for Law Services (CLS) showing that they've identified and closed gaps in lawcare for their clients.

TexasRebel said:

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Who doesn't take their own stitches out?

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Singers.

Hoosegow said:

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Why in the hell would anyone go to the doctor to get stitches taken out? A pair of finger nail clippers and tweezers is all you need. .

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Because it was A. Free B. A deep freaking cut I wanted looked at before the stitches came out and C. Right next to where I was buying groceries that day

I've taken lots of my own out before.

You don't take out your own stitches AND you buy groceries?

Cuban said it best


"If we fined insurers and providers $100 every time they over-billed, incorrectly denied care or misrepresented any amount of patient out of pocket, we could pay off the national debt

They play on the fear and information asymmetry that exists in healthcare

Break them up"

Old_Ag_91 said:

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I know I had a procedure where I had to be put under and they wanted 225,000 (insurance paid 224k+) just for an anesthesiologist. It's simply unreal how expensive everything is.

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When a lobby bribes politicians enough, they are allowed to operate as a monopoly. There is a reason the health care lobby is so huge.

$225k??

Science Denier said:

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Old_Ag_91 said:

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I know I had a procedure where I had to be put under and they wanted 225,000 (insurance paid 224k+) just for an anesthesiologist. It's simply unreal how expensive everything is.

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When a lobby bribes politicians enough, they are allowed to operate as a monopoly. There is a reason the health care lobby is so huge.

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The Hobby Lobby also supports compensation for stitches.

hph6203 said:

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You don't take out your own stitches AND you buy groceries?

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Yep. I don't let some high school kid pick my meat and produce for me. Do you?

$1025 out of pocket for x-rays, tetanus shot, and stitches in my knee when I busted it skiing at Copper Mountain. That was on the mountain. And included stitch removal.

Note: I didn't have standard insurance at the time due to contract work. I had a health share with a $1000 deductible.

That seems like fraud, and is exactly why insurance costs so much now. Doctors and insurance companies constantly try to screw each other over.

Back in 2003 I had ACL surgery in College Station. Total bill was $25k.

AJ02 said:

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Someone on a different thread made the comment that at least part of the issue is our current society feeling like we have to squeeze every last year/day out of the aging population's life, when they are obviously not truly "living" and are miserable. As heartless as that is, there seems to be some truth to it.

How many people are guilty of keeping their elderly parent with dementia and myriad other miserable health problems on life support, and not for the parent's sake, but because the child just doesn't want to let them go?

Saw an episode of The Pitt where an older brother & sister insisted on overriding their dad's DNR order and intubating him despite the doctor telling them it would be painful and confusing for their father. But they selfishly pushed forward anyway. Made me so mad.

Likewise, I can remember when my own grandmother was in the nursing home struggling with her failing health and dementia. All she wanted to do was eat cookies and watch TV. Yet one of my aunts was insistent that the staff take away all sweets....cookies, ice cream, sweet tea, etc bc it wasn't "healthy" for my grandma. The woman was 84 damn years old and miserable! Let her have her damn sweets! She earned them! If she dies because she ate cookies instead of steamed broccoli, I'm sure my grandmother would still choose to go out that way.

I know I sure as hell don't want to live the last years of my life in misery. I'd rather my husband put a pillow over my head in my sleep than prolong my painful existence.

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My wife probably wants to go out similarly. I won't be around, but maybe I could train a Maine Coon cat; not that she is a CONSERVATIVE crazy cat lady or anything,

B-1 83 said:

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I $h@& you not. I had an "incident" with a knife right before Thanksgiving that resulted in a visit to a local ER specialty facility. Between the doctor, facility, and the removal of stitches it was $15k.

My part ended up being $475. That's reduced from the original where they charged for removing them. I was told that was free, called their billing office, and they waived my part. Here's the odd part- the removing Dr charged more than the actual surgeon and I GUARANTEE they didn't send back the insurance payment.

Politics because this is pretty wild with medical insurance and rising premiums

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All the uproar and focus on things like Greenland(just an example) yet we don't make any serious attempt to solve one of the most pressing issues this country faces, as stated in the OPs final sentence.

This effort should be the equivalent of the moon mission. Get it done.

Got a flu test before Christmas at Urgent Care.

Yeah, I know it's going to cost more, but they billed my insurance $390 just for the flue test.

That's just outrageous!

Once the send me a bill, I'm going to negotiate and if they refuse, I'll just tell them to send it to collections and I'll call and offer to settle. My credit is like 800+. Screw them!

Just curious how much you think would be reasonable for a flu test?

I will tell you the flu test for them costs about $30, so they marked this up 13x. They would be lucky to get paid $120 or 4x in 3-6 months. This is on top of having highly trained professionals with many years of training caring for you.

You go to a football game and grab a bottle of water for $5. A bottle prob costs them 10 cents or a mark up of 50x. This bottle is handed to you by guy who probably is HS or never went to college.

Medaggie said:

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Just curious how much you think would be reasonable for a flu test?

I will tell you the flu test for them costs about $30, so they marked this up 13x. The would be lucky to get $120 paid or 4x in 3-6 months. This is on top of having highly trained professionals with many years of training caring for you.

You go to a football game and grab a bottle of water for $5. A bottle prob costs them 10 cents or a mark up of 50x. This bottle is handed to you by guy who probably is HS or never went to college.

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I just bought four Covid/flu tests at Walgreens for $40. Most urgent cares around us have, at best, a nurse practitioner. They'll have a physician on call. $390 for a flu test seems a bit much.

Quote:

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You go to a football game and grab a bottle of water for $5. A bottle prob costs them 10 cents or a mark up of 50x. This bottle is handed to you by guy who probably is HS or never went to college.

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You go buy a Chevy Silverado 1500 for $45,000. That truck costs $20,000 to manufacture.

That's only 2.25x

. And that includes the highly trained professionals with many years of training required to assemble the vehicle.

So, $30 x 2.25 = $67.50

By the way, if the patient has insurance, the office has agreed to take between $75 and $125


So, yea. Charging $390 is total bull*****

What they charge the insurance is not what they get paid. What do you think is reasonable to bill bc they will get 25% of charges. So if they charged $100, they will be paid $25 which would not be economically viable.

Also, what you buy at walgreens is not the same test as what they run on machines that need validation. It is not like they take the sample in the back, swish it around, and read the color.

I do purchases for these tests and most of the time they are batched with other common infection and not just flu. Regardless, it costs around $30 for the typical flu panel from Mckesson.

Medaggie said:

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What they charge the insurance is not what they get paid. What do you think is reasonable to bill bc they will get 25% of charges. So if they charged $100, they will be paid $25 which would not be economically viable.

Also, what you buy at walgreens is not the same test as what they run on machines that need validation. It is not like they take the sample in the back, swish it around, and read the color.

I do purchases for these tests and most of the time they are batched with other common infection and not just flu. Regardless, it costs around $30 for the typical flu panel from Mckesson.

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Insurance pays for a specific service, not whatever is billed. What I showed is what BC&BS pays for a flu test at an urgent care.

And the cost I used was You said it cost. $30. Not what Walgreens charges.

Medaggie said:

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Just curious how much you think would be reasonable for a flu test?

I will tell you the flu test for them costs about $30, so they marked this up 13x. They would be lucky to get paid $120 or 4x in 3-6 months. This is on top of having highly trained professionals with many years of training caring for you.

You go to a football game and grab a bottle of water for $5. A bottle prob costs them 10 cents or a mark up of 50x. This bottle is handed to you by guy who probably is HS or never went to college.

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Full disclosure, we are on a high deductible plan so we pay a lot of out of pocked costs first. We picked this b/c my wife and I rarely get sick. This is my first visit to a Dr. out side of annual exam is several years. Unfortunately, my normal Dr. Office has shut down their urgent care after hours clinic so I went to this one b/c it was open (it's my wife's Dr office).

The bill for the visit was $225 marked down by insurance to $189. I paid that up front when I got there. I went b/c my older in poor health in-laws were coming for Christmas and I didn't want to get them sick. If it was just a sinus infection, NBD. But the flue, or strep or something I wanted to know.

Understand it's after hours and someone has to be trained to do the test. If they submitted $100 to insurance, I'd not be to upset. Yeah, it's expensive but not crazy for an after hours appointment and test. But the cost of the flue test was almost 2x what they billed insurance for the office visit, which seems just outrageous. Also, I should have 100% asked what the cost was before they gave it to me. The PA was 99% sure I had the flu based on symptoms, fever, cough, etc.

I've not actually gotten a bill from them yet. I am going to call later today and pretend I need to come in and ask what the cash price is for the office visit and flu test. I suspect it will be much less. If they actually bill me $390, I'm going to call and tell them I was told over the phone it was $xx and that's what I'll pay. If they wont negotiate it, I'll tell them to send it to collection, play the whole "I'm negotiating" and "prove this is valid" game, then settle for much less. And if I understand correctly, anything under $500 would not show up on my credit anyway.

And again, to be clear. I have zero problem paying a reasonable cost for my treatment. $225 does not seem at all out of line to see a Dr or PA at 7PM on a Tuesday with no appointment. Hell, that seems in-line for a normal Dr. Visit. But there is NFW anyone can justify $390 for a flue test.

The system we have is just stupid and the government shoulders the bulk of the blame for all the rules and regulations that are in place and allow bills for $390 for a flue test to happen.

Also, FTR, the local stadiums here allow you to bring in up to 20oz of sealed water bottles and that's what I do. I don't pay $5 for bottle water.

It's never going to get fixed.
If I go to an ER with broken leg, and they tell me it's going to be $10,000 to fix it, what am I going to do? Go to the next ER and shop it until I find a price I think is fair?
Even for normal issues. Say I go to my GP for a checkup, tells me I need to see a urologist, I call they're 3-5 months out for an appointment. I finally get in and don't like the price, am I just going to wait another 3-5 months to see if I like the price at the next place?
Can't even imagine what it's like for actual life threatening problems.

The hospitals and insurance companies have us by the balls, and a socialized system isn't going to fix it, it's just not going to get better.

agracer said:

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Full disclosure, we are on a high deductible plan so we pay a lot of out of pocked costs first. We picked this b/c my wife and I rarely get sick. This is my first visit to a Dr. out side of annual exam is several years. Unfortunately, my normal Dr. Office has shut down their urgent care after hours clinic so I went to this one b/c it was open (it's my wife's Dr office).

The bill for the visit was $225 marked down by insurance to $189. I paid that up front when I got there. I went b/c my older in poor health in-laws were coming for Christmas and I didn't want to get them sick. If it was just a sinus infection, NBD. But the flue, or strep or something I wanted to know.

Understand it's after hours and someone has to be trained to do the test. If they submitted $100 to insurance, I'd not be to upset. Yeah, it's expensive but not crazy for an after hours appointment and test. But the cost of the flue test was almost 2x what they billed insurance for the office visit, which seems just outrageous. Also, I should have 100% asked what the cost was before they gave it to me. The PA was 99% sure I had the flu based on symptoms, fever, cough, etc.

I've not actually gotten a bill from them yet. I am going to call later today and pretend I need to come in and ask what the cash price is for the office visit and flu test. I suspect it will be much less. If they actually bill me $390, I'm going to call and tell them I was told over the phone it was $xx and that's what I'll pay. If they wont negotiate it, I'll tell them to send it to collection, play the whole "I'm negotiating" and "prove this is valid" game, then settle for much less. And if I understand correctly, anything under $500 would not show up on my credit anyway.

And again, to be clear. I have zero problem paying a reasonable cost for my treatment. $225 does not seem at all out of line to see a Dr or PA at 7PM on a Tuesday with no appointment. Hell, that seems in-line for a normal Dr. Visit. But there is NFW anyone can justify $390 for a flue test.

The system we have is just stupid and the government shoulders the bulk of the blame for all the rules and regulations that are in place and allow bills for $390 for a flue test to happen.

Also, FTR, the local stadiums here allow you to bring in up to 20oz of sealed water bottles and that's what I do. I don't pay $5 for bottle water.

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I feel for you. I am prob one of the most knowledgeable about insurance and my only leverage is connections. Otherwise, you are at their mercy.

Years ago, I took my kid to the cardiologist, had a high deductible insurance. Typically b/c of connections, I just would call up a buddy and they would do it pro bono but it was somewhat urgent. So just went to the 1st recommended. Visit was not expensive. The Echo was like $2500 for about 15 minutes.

Sucks to be a healthcare consumer.

Wow. I just had surgery in December, and it was about $8k. Way more invasive than stitches on a finger.

I just called the Urgent Care clinic.

Cash pay is $143.50 for an office visit, and $54 for covid/flu/something test.

Mad at myself b/c I know better than this. Always ask the cash price at these places. My family has saved $1,000's in insurance coverage over the last 10 years on the high deductible plan. I just didn't think $189 was unreasonable for the late night urgent care visit and didn't think a flu test would be $390!

Maybe they were just trying to milk the insurance. We will see what the actually bill me.

My son got his finger slammed in a locker about 10-years ago. Called his doctor, it was an office visit, then go to an image center, then radiologist to read the x-ray, then fee for splint...blah blah blah,...probably would have cost me $500+ for all that nonsense.

Called an Urgent care, aske for cash price for office visit, X-ray and splint. The lady on the phone said "$89 for office visit, $50 for X-ray and no cost for the splint". So went there, paid the $139 and walked out with a splint on his ring finger.

agracer said:

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I just called the Urgent Care clinic.

Cash pay is $143.50 for an office visit, and $54 for covid/flu/something test.

Mad at myself b/c I know better than this. Always ask the cash price at these places. My family has saved $1,000's in insurance coverage over the last 10 years on the high deductible plan. I just didn't think $189 was unreasonable for the late night urgent care visit and didn't think a flu test would be $390!

Maybe they were just trying to milk the insurance. We will see what the actually bill me.

My son got his finger slammed in a locker about 10-years ago. Called his doctor, it was an office visit, then go to an image center, then radiologist to read the x-ray, then fee for splint...blah blah blah,...probably would have cost me $500+ for all that nonsense.

Called an Urgent care, aske for cash price for office visit, X-ray and splint. The lady on the phone said "$89 for office visit, $50 for X-ray and no cost for the splint". So went there, paid the $139 and walked out with a splint on his ring finger.

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This. Once Americans realize the power of cash pay, we can take control back from the insane insurance companies. People need to power through the propaganda. We've done it with the food pyramid. Maybe we can succeed here too.

The Banned said:

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agracer said:

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I just called the Urgent Care clinic.

Cash pay is $143.50 for an office visit, and $54 for covid/flu/something test.

Mad at myself b/c I know better than this. Always ask the cash price at these places. My family has saved $1,000's in insurance coverage over the last 10 years on the high deductible plan. I just didn't think $189 was unreasonable for the late night urgent care visit and didn't think a flu test would be $390!

Maybe they were just trying to milk the insurance. We will see what the actually bill me.

My son got his finger slammed in a locker about 10-years ago. Called his doctor, it was an office visit, then go to an image center, then radiologist to read the x-ray, then fee for splint...blah blah blah,...probably would have cost me $500+ for all that nonsense.

Called an Urgent care, aske for cash price for office visit, X-ray and splint. The lady on the phone said "$89 for office visit, $50 for X-ray and no cost for the splint". So went there, paid the $139 and walked out with a splint on his ring finger.

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This. Once Americans realize the power of cash pay, we can take control back from the insane insurance companies. People need to power through the propaganda. We've done it with the food pyramid. Maybe we can succeed here too.

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while I haven't tried it yet, I wonder if you did the cash pay, then used the receipt to file a claim with your insurance to count against your deductible you'll get denied.

My son went the ER in College b/c he got a huge cut on his hand playing BB on a Saturday evening. 4-stiches later it was a $1,500 bill (including the infamous 'facility charge' which was $1,000). The local urgent care would have been $250 but they were not open at 10PM. I called and asked for the cash price to settle and they said "we already filed with your insurance, we can't un-file and you pay cash.

I don't wonder if trying to send in a claim after the fact will somehow result in you, the customer, getting screwed with insurance claiming I should have given them my card and gone that route first.

Same son had some physical therapy, called ahead to get his co-pay cost and was told $75 and also confirmed with insurance they were 'in network'. Went to several visits and got a $1,000 "facility charge" bill in the mail from the therapy place b/c they were 'connected' to a hospital. They never said squat about the facility charge. Never did find out how that ended up for him, but I told him to document everything and file a complaint with the state insurance office and CC the hospital and his insurance company and anyone else he can think of and continue to protest the charge until it goes to collections, then go on a payment plan for $10/mo and offer to settle after a few months.

agracer said:

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The Banned said:

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agracer said:

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I just called the Urgent Care clinic.

Cash pay is $143.50 for an office visit, and $54 for covid/flu/something test.

Mad at myself b/c I know better than this. Always ask the cash price at these places. My family has saved $1,000's in insurance coverage over the last 10 years on the high deductible plan. I just didn't think $189 was unreasonable for the late night urgent care visit and didn't think a flu test would be $390!

Maybe they were just trying to milk the insurance. We will see what the actually bill me.

My son got his finger slammed in a locker about 10-years ago. Called his doctor, it was an office visit, then go to an image center, then radiologist to read the x-ray, then fee for splint...blah blah blah,...probably would have cost me $500+ for all that nonsense.

Called an Urgent care, aske for cash price for office visit, X-ray and splint. The lady on the phone said "$89 for office visit, $50 for X-ray and no cost for the splint". So went there, paid the $139 and walked out with a splint on his ring finger.

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This. Once Americans realize the power of cash pay, we can take control back from the insane insurance companies. People need to power through the propaganda. We've done it with the food pyramid. Maybe we can succeed here too.

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while I haven't tried it yet, I wonder if you did the cash pay, then used the receipt to file a claim with your insurance to count against your deductible you'll get denied.

My son went the ER in College b/c he got a huge cut on his hand playing BB on a Saturday evening. 4-stiches later it was a $1,500 bill (including the infamous 'facility charge' which was $1,000). The local urgent care would have been $250 but they were not open at 10PM. I called and asked for the cash price to settle and they said "we already filed with your insurance, we can't un-file and you pay cash.

I don't wonder if trying to send in a claim after the fact will somehow result in you, the customer, getting screwed with insurance claiming I should have given them my card and gone that route first.

Same son had some physical therapy, called ahead to get his co-pay cost and was told $75 and also confirmed with insurance they were 'in network'. Went to several visits and got a $1,000 "facility charge" bill in the mail from the therapy place b/c they were 'connected' to a hospital. They never said squat about the facility charge. Never did find out how that ended up for him, but I told him to document everything and file a complaint with the state insurance office and CC the hospital and his insurance company and anyone else he can think of and continue to protest the charge until it goes to collections, then go on a payment plan for $10/mo and offer to settle after a few months.

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You're correct. Insurance is not going to let that out of pocket cost go towards your deductible because they didn't get to "negotiate" the "cheaper" rate for you. They want it in their hands, and their hands only.

Now there are some insurance-ish plans called medical sharing programs that encourage this. We had a midnight urgent care visit for one of ours recently. $400 total. Sent it to our sharing program. All $400 went towards our household share portion (they aren't legally allowed to call it a deductible)