Little v. Hecox & West Virginia v. B.P.J.

5,156 Views | 72 Replies | Last: 5 hrs ago by fc2112
TRM
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A pair of trans athlete cases are up for arguments at SCOTUS Tuesday morning.

https://www.scotusblog.com/2026/01/the-transgender-athlete-cases-an-explainer/

Quote:

Who are the challengers in the cases?

There are two challengers both transgender women in two separate cases, Little v. Hecox and West Virginia v. B.P.J., which will be argued on the same day, Tuesday, Jan. 13. One challenger is Lindsay Hecox, now 24 years old, who filed this lawsuit when seeking to try out for the women's track and cross-country teams at Boise State University in Idaho. Hecox did not make the NCAA teams at BSU but competes at the club level.

The other challenger is B.P.J., a 15-year-old high school student who has publicly identified as female since the third grade. B.P.J. takes medicine to stave off the onset of male puberty and has also begun to receive hormone therapy with estrogen. B.P.J's mother, Heather Jackson, went to court on her child's behalf when she learned that the West Virginia law would bar B.P.J. from participating on the girls' middle school sports teams

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What arguments do the challengers make in the Supreme Court?

Hecox first urges the court not to decide her case at all (more on that below). But if it doesn't do that, she says, the justices should leave the district court's order barring enforcement of the law in place and send it back so that the state can argue over facts that it had not previously asserted such as the differences between men and women "that necessitate separate sports teams." The Supreme Court, Hecox argues, should not consider those facts in the first instance.

...


B.P.J. (who is represented by many of the same lawyers who represent Hecox) first urges, like Hecox, the justices not to engage with the states' invocation of any advantages that transgender athletes may have, arguing that they should not consider claims and evidence that were not before the lower courts in her case.

B.P.J.'s arguments on the merits generally focus on the law as it applies to her, rather than to transgender athletes more broadly. B.P.J. begins with the text of Title IX, which bars discrimination against a "person" "on the basis of sex." Pointing to the court's decision in Bostock, B.P.J. contends that "treating a student differently because they are transgender inherently entails differential treatment of a 'person' 'on the basis of sex.'" Indeed, B.P.J. suggests, because she has lived as a girl for seven years, barring her from competing on the girls' sports teams effectively prohibits her from competing on any sports teams.



cef88
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Interesting that the transgenders seem to be pleading "dont let any inherent facts about gender in athletics persuade your judgement, only read words as they are written (of course the written words never considered men trying to play women's sports, in fact they were written to protect women in sports)"

Don't think that's going to play to well
Jarrin Jay
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I find it troubling / laughable they keep referring to "she / her" when it should be "he / him (pretending to be she / her)"………
ABATTBQ11
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"Since the third grade"

This seems like a clear cut case of Munchausen by proxy and child abuse
ts5641
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So odd this is one of the hills the left want to die on. They're ****ing evil!
ts5641
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ABATTBQ11 said:

"Since the third grade"

This seems like a clear cut case of Munchausen by proxy and child abuse

Elon's baby mama wants to transition their son at 1 year old.
nortex97
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This is going to lead to some epic questions from justice 'I don't understand.'
Gilligan
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ts5641 said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

"Since the third grade"

This seems like a clear cut case of Munchausen by proxy and child abuse

Elon's baby mama wants to transition their son at 1 year old.


The latest Elon baby momma is an attention ho, who used her cootchie to get paid. It worked, but unfortunately there's a young life in the balance that probably doesn't stand a chance at normalcy.
Pinochet
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ts5641 said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

"Since the third grade"

This seems like a clear cut case of Munchausen by proxy and child abuse

Elon's baby mama wants to transition their son at 1 year old.

Isn't she the one who was a lib porn star or something before she found out it was popular to be conservative, and has recently gone back to being a lib now that the market for hot conservatives is saturated?
TRM
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Live Oral Argument Audio
nortex97
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Sotomayor doesn't even sound well. C-span link shows who is talking (not video), but have to login with a provider now.
https://www.c-span.org/networks/?channel=c-span-3
bobbranco
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ts5641 said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

"Since the third grade"

This seems like a clear cut case of Munchausen by proxy and child abuse

Elon's baby mama wants to transition their son at 1 year old.


Don't put anything into crazy!
The Banned
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If we're throwing inherent advantages out, shouldn't the logical conclusion be that separating the two to begin with is discrimination? The current system is just another form of "separate but equal". Do away with the divide, make one league and let the chips fall where they may. The left shouldn't be able to have it both ways.
Rapier108
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This is one issue I don't trust the Supreme Court to get right.

They've already ruled to give "trans" protected status so it would not be far fetched for them to do it again.

Would not be shocked to see a 6-3 or 5-4 ruling in favor of the mentally ill boys.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
nortex97
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And, KBJ opens with "I'm not sure I understand…". Then goes into some long hypothetical/discussion of an individual seeking an exception in their individual capacity (as mentally ill), 'do I have this/they are not proposing an alternative class, just saying I should be granted an exception on this basis.' 'But that's the way the rule used to work. I understand the law was originally just that, we will look at your circumstances to see what would be concluded.'

Response: there was no Idaho law before this.

'But what I'm asking is, if that is the ask here, not that all trans women be allowed, why is that so not administrable or requiring a…'

She is just a piece of work.

Rambling/interrupting going on now 'I guess I don't understand' yet again.
FireAg
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You honestly think they will rule that genetic males have the right to compete with genetic females and take opportunities away from genetic females?

I honestly can't see any way that happens…

Flies directly in the face of what Title IX was intended to achieve…it was intended to protect the rights of biological women to have the same opportunities in education and athletics as biological men…
fc2112
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Why don't we ever hear about women pretending to be men wanting to complete in men's sports?

We all know why.....
cecil77
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Does anyone ever ask why females wanting to participate in male sports doesn't ever seem to be an issue?
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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Interesting that Hecox tried to run screaming away from scotus hearing this in the first place….
YellAg2004
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fc2112 said:

Why don't we ever hear about women pretending to be men wanting to complete in men's sports?

We all know why.....

Yep. The WNBA champions would likely get smoked by the #100 8th grade boys AAU team.
aggiehawg
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Can't believe we are even having this conversation. So stupid. The one thing one can't transgender is their chromosomes.
Hill08
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All it's going to take is a professional team owner of a ladies league, to field an all trans team and never lose. It would 100% shut up the libs and lesbos.
cecil77
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aggiehawg said:

Can't believe we are even having this conversation. So stupid. The one thing one can't transgender is their chromosomes.


This. The entire subject is lunacy. How on earth has one manifestation of one form of mental illness (body dysmorphia) become something to accept and encourage rather than to heal? How are transgender "treatments" any different from prescribing lyposuction to anorexics?
TRM
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Gorsuch is weak on this, see Bostock, and Roberts will probably have a hard time veering from it since only 5 years have passed since the decision.
Gaeilge
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I think this is a 7-2 with KBJ and Sotomayor desenting
FireAg
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TRM said:

Gorsuch is weak on this, see Bostock, and Roberts will probably have a hard time veering from it since only 5 years have passed since the decision.

Title IX is "sex" based…not "sex identity" based…

Your true "sex" is chromosomal-dependent, and it cannot be changed at the cellular level…

You can change your "identity" by changing your physical appearances but that does NOT change your "sex" scientifically…

This is a very black and white issue…
FireAg
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Gaeilge said:

I think this is a 7-2 with KBJ and Sotomayor desenting

I agree…and it's laughable that it doesn't go 9-0…
Old_Ag_91
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I'm just waiting for Mrs Hawg to put in her two cents cause I value her opinion.
Rapier108
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FireAg said:

TRM said:

Gorsuch is weak on this, see Bostock, and Roberts will probably have a hard time veering from it since only 5 years have passed since the decision.

Title IX is "sex" based…not "sex identity" based…

Your true "sex" is chromosomal-dependent, and it cannot be changed at the cellular level…

You can change your "identity" by changing your physical appearances but that does NOT change your "sex" scientifically…

This is a very black and white issue…

Except as already noted, they already ruled "sex identity" is protected the same as a person's actual, genetic sex.

Gorsuch and Roberts cannot be trusted on this based on the previous ruling.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
TRM
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It's a Title VII Civil Rights case competing against the interests of Title IX.
The Banned
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Rapier108 said:

FireAg said:

TRM said:

Gorsuch is weak on this, see Bostock, and Roberts will probably have a hard time veering from it since only 5 years have passed since the decision.

Title IX is "sex" based…not "sex identity" based…

Your true "sex" is chromosomal-dependent, and it cannot be changed at the cellular level…

You can change your "identity" by changing your physical appearances but that does NOT change your "sex" scientifically…

This is a very black and white issue…

Except as already noted, they already ruled "sex identity" is protected the same as a person's actual, genetic sex.

Gorsuch and Roberts cannot be trusted on this based on the previous ruling.

I still don't how this does erode the underpinnings of title IX. That rule is in place to protect the opportunity for women to play sports. If we're going to deny the inherent competitive advantages of a male presenting as female because of their "sex identity", then the grounds for title IX being a thing in the first place is being overturned unintentionally.
aggiehawg
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Old_Ag_91 said:

I'm just waiting for Mrs Hawg to put in her two cents cause I value her opinion.

I could only stomach listening to about half of that, it was so stupid to me. How is it going to turn out? Honestly don't know if Title IX survives or not. Those arguments got so far into the weeds they were missing the larger picture and overthinking it.

If Title IX survives, I think the amicus filed by female rowers who were in sports both before and after Title IX was enacted would the more persuasive argument.
Urban Ag
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aggiehawg said:

Can't believe we are even having this conversation. So stupid. The one thing one can't transgender is their chromosomes.

This. Protecting women's sports is important but there is a much more important, much broader, impact on society and culture.

If you can normalize biological men competing against biological women, in "women's sports", you can normalize just about anything.
aggiehawg
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Urban Ag said:

aggiehawg said:

Can't believe we are even having this conversation. So stupid. The one thing one can't transgender is their chromosomes.

This. Protecting women's sports is important but there is a much more important, much broader, impact on society and culture.

If you can normalize biological men competing against biological women, in "women's sports", you can normalize just about anything.

I thought we had settled this back in the 70s when the Olympics Committee mandated Barr Body tests for female athletes. Especially the ones from the Soviet-bloc nations.
VarkAg77
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aggiehawg said:

Urban Ag said:

aggiehawg said:

Can't believe we are even having this conversation. So stupid. The one thing one can't transgender is their chromosomes.

This. Protecting women's sports is important but there is a much more important, much broader, impact on society and culture.

If you can normalize biological men competing against biological women, in "women's sports", you can normalize just about anything.

I thought we had settled this back in the 70s when the Olympics Committee mandated Barr Body tests for female athletes. Especially the ones from the Soviet-bloc nations.


I thought Adam settled this with Eve a long time before the 70s!
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