Quote:

---

Trying to find good caselaw here with ChatGPT,

---

iv'e identified the problem

Quote:

---

I'm not saying you are wrong here, but why is this the case?

From an economic point of view, if a company pays a $10 tax, and then expressly charges for that $10 tax to its customers, and then recoups that $10 tax, hasn't the company experienced a windfall?

---

the issue is not "Economic damages" per se as you are thinking of in a traditional lawsuit.

its "what amount of tariff was supposed to be charged"

Its funny to me how everybody becomes quick experts in the financial impact to a company when there aren't sufficient details to become such an expert.

If my company had to deal with tariffs, we'd likely eat some of the cost and pass on what we thought the market would bear. So to pretend like there are no damages is assuming quite a bit. In the article posted, Fedex said they took a $1 billion hit to earnings because of the IEEPA duties. So there was some cost that they bore.

doubledog said:

---

I just bought a replacement part that was in stock with an independent U.S. distributer. The part originates in Germany. The US distributer charged me a 10% tariff fee for a part they own in their warehouse in the U.S.

Now tell me this is not a scam.

---

When home sales prices shot through the roof around 2019-2022 builders were doing the same thing. The overall increase was primarily due to supply/demand, but there was ALLOT of greedy BS going on as well which helped inflate the market imo.

Some businesses exist to make or take profit, and some exist to take anything & everything they can get their hands on.

doubledog said:

---

I just bought a replacement part that was in stock with an independent U.S. distributer. The part originates in Germany. The US distributer charged me a 10% tariff fee for a part they own in their warehouse in the U.S.

Now tell me this is not a scam.

---

Did they pay the tariff when they stocked it? Will they need to pay a tariff when they restock the part?

Tariffs have raised prices of a lot of goods. In addition US manufacturers have used the tariff as a way to raise their prices to extract more margin - even for goods they manufacture here or pre-tariff parts they had in inventory. Everyone who is in distribution knew this was what would happen.

BMX Bandit said:

---

Quote:

---

Proper venue is US Court of Claims, no?

---

no.

https://www.cit.uscourts.gov/

---

Thanks for this. Not my area of specialty, but this is looking pretty interesting, and will make a lot of lawyers really rich over the next decade.

This is the ruling by the CAFC, I think, that got appealed to SCOTUS?

https://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/opinions-orders/25-1812.OPINION.8-29-2025_2566151.pdf

Here is a neat write-up about the governments refunds in of the Harbor Maintenance Tax, which the CIT administrated in the late 1980s.

https://digitalcommons.law.utulsa.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1100&context=tjcil

The government will 100% argue in front of the CIT that they don't owe the importer of record the full refund of the tax, because, why not make that argument? If these companies are directly passing the cost to the consumer, why should they reap a windfall. Especially companies that explicitly captured the cost of the tax on their receipts.

But, based on historical precedence, this seems to be an uphill battle. However, the Harbor Maintenance Tax was assessed against exporters, so its easier to say that the exporters bore the brunt of the tax.

It is very interesting that you have all of these economists out there saying that 90% of the tariffs are absorbed by US consumers, but now you are gong to have economists hired by these private companies that are going to argue that 100% of the tax hit their client's bottom line.

Another interesting corollary is illegally collected sales tax. When it comes to illegally collected sales tax, these taxes are generally due to the person that paid the tax: the buyer of the good from the seller. The seller is supposed to refund the tax, and ask for recoupment from the government. If the seller is bankrupt, then the final customer can ask for the refund directly.

Why shouldn't FedEx have to do the same thing? Couldn't FedEx customers file a Class Action to ask for their portion of the tariff expense back?

I don't think that the path forward here is clear cut. I do think that the CIT will try to set up refund courts similar to the Harbor Maintenance Tax. I doubt that the DOJ wins any of the arguments about not paying back the full tariffs, but I think that it is highly likely that the DOJ takes that position based on economic arguments, and that the plaintiffs will counter primarily with legal arguments (the economic damage doesn't matter, the precedent is that 100% of the illegal taxes should be returned), but will also need to back those legal arguments up with economic arguments (even if WE are not owed 100% of the tariffs, here is what the economic damage to our company was).

The whole topic about refunds is going to be interesting to follow. It will go back to the CIT, which will get appealed again to the CAFC, which will likely send it back down to the CIT before we get a final resolution.

BMX Bandit said:

---

Quote:

---

Trying to find good caselaw here with ChatGPT,

---

iv'e identified the problem

---

Well, expert, you have something to help?

BMX Bandit said:

---

Quote:

---

I'm not saying you are wrong here, but why is this the case?

From an economic point of view, if a company pays a $10 tax, and then expressly charges for that $10 tax to its customers, and then recoups that $10 tax, hasn't the company experienced a windfall?

---

the issue is not "Economic damages" per se as you are thinking of in a traditional lawsuit.

its "what amount of tariff was supposed to be charged"

---

I'm not saying you are wrong, but why are you right here? What is the precedence that establishes this?

doubledog said:

---

I just bought a replacement part that was in stock with an independent U.S. distributer. The part originates in Germany. The US distributer charged me a 10% tariff fee for a part they own in their warehouse in the U.S.

Now tell me this is not a scam.

---

I'm confused by your comment. Do you think they did not pay a tariff when it came into their inventory?

MAROON said:

---

doubledog said:

---

I just bought a replacement part that was in stock with an independent U.S. distributer. The part originates in Germany. The US distributer charged me a 10% tariff fee for a part they own in their warehouse in the U.S.

Now tell me this is not a scam.

---

Did they pay the tariff when they stocked it? Will they need to pay a tariff when they restock the part?

Tariffs have raised prices of a lot of goods. In addition US manufacturers have used the tariff as a way to raise their prices to extract more margin - even for goods they manufacture here or pre-tariff parts they had in inventory. Everyone who is in distribution knew this was what would happen.

---

Exactly. I'm in distribution and this has been going on for a year. I think most of our manufacturers are following the law and doing the best they can.

I think it just shows that the vast majority of people don't understand how tariffs work. Don't forget, when this all started there were people on this board who actually believed that China was writing the US Treasury a check every month with "tariffs" on the memo line.

#4 is incomplete

They ruled that using the IEEPA for tariffs is not within his purview. They didn't rule tariffs are unlawful.

They're still in place, and the few they stopped will be put in place under a different provision than IEEPA

Old McDonald said:

---

here's how it works for those who haven't been paying attention:

1) trump tariffs the rest of the world willy nilly
2) importers have to pay the government more in taxes
3) they pass the tax on to you, the end consumer
4) trump's tariffs ruled unlawful by Supreme Court
5) importers sue the government and get their money back
6) you get nothing and are left holding the bag

many "conservatives" gleefully voted for this

---

Why is this true?

How do you know that this is true, or is this purse speculation?

I don't think you want to try and defend what voting for the other side of the aisle would have looked like.

Where's the class action lawsuit to get my tarrif refund from FedEx?

BTKAG97 said:

---

Where's the class action lawsuit to get my tarrif refund from FedEx?

---

It's being handled by the groase mispellerz lau ferm

"Tariff"

Meh... whatevah

Old McDonald said:

---

here's how it works for those who haven't been paying attention:

1) trump tariffs the rest of the world willy nilly
2) importers have to pay the government more in taxes
3) they pass the tax on to you, the end consumer
4) trump's tariffs ruled unlawful by Supreme Court
5) importers sue the government and get their money back
6) you get nothing and are left holding the bag

many "conservatives" gleefully voted for this

---

Taxes are BADASS now, and super conservative. Dear Leader has spoken, fall in line. Anybody who doesn't like increased taxes is a deep state, woke Marxist.

Quote:

---

Taxes are TERRIBLE now, and super cisgender. Media has spoken, fall in line. Anybody who was for increased taxes is an orangemangod cultist. lets cut taxes for eveyone now!!! Also, I eat boogers.

---

/same poster; probably

I paid a pretty hefty tariff to receive goods from New Zealand. Sucks, but I chose to buy the parts from there. Wish there was a domestic company with equivalent but there wasn't.

Edit: part was shipped through DHL. When it arrived at the port DHL sent me an email with the fee to be paid prior to passing through customs. Once I paid it was cleared and arrived a few days later.

BigRobSA said:

---

BTKAG97 said:

---

Where's the class action lawsuit to get my tarrif refund from FedEx?

---

It's being handled by the groase mispellerz lau ferm

"Tariff"

---

. I think it is more the case that he doesn't give two F's.

I bought something on Amazon that was unknowingly shipped from Pakistan. FedEx billed me for the tariff charge. Are they going to refund me? I think not. Screw FedEx

if you think the end user the consumer going to see any refund from Fedex you are a dolt.

winmck said:

---

I bought something on Amazon that was unknowingly shipped from Pakistan. FedEx billed me for the tariff charge. Are they going to refund me? I think not. Screw FedEx

---

exactly.

EFR said:

---

I think it just shows that the vast majority of people don't understand how tariffs work. Don't forget, when this all started there were people on this board who actually believed that China was writing the US Treasury a check every month with "tariffs" on the memo line.

---

Literally no one thought that

Silent For Too Long said:

---

EFR said:

---

I think it just shows that the vast majority of people don't understand how tariffs work. Don't forget, when this all started there were people on this board who actually believed that China was writing the US Treasury a check every month with "tariffs" on the memo line.

---

Literally no one thought that

---

depends. If Kia wants to sell autos in the US they have to import them in and pay the tariff. If a consumer in the US goes into the international market and finds a good they want to bring back they are paying the tariff. Think of it as a push/pull.

I can think of at least one person who said that.

BusterAg said:

---

Old McDonald said:

---

here's how it works for those who haven't been paying attention:

1) trump tariffs the rest of the world willy nilly
2) importers have to pay the government more in taxes
3) they pass the tax on to you, the end consumer
4) trump's tariffs ruled unlawful by Supreme Court
5) importers sue the government and get their money back
6) you get nothing and are left holding the bag

many "conservatives" gleefully voted for this

---

Why is this true?

How do you know that this is true, or is this purse speculation?

I don't think you want to try and defend what voting for the other side of the aisle would have looked like.

---

i'll spare you the disappointment: you're never getting the "tariff dividend" trump promised you

Silent For Too Long said:

---

EFR said:

---

I think it just shows that the vast majority of people don't understand how tariffs work. Don't forget, when this all started there were people on this board who actually believed that China was writing the US Treasury a check every month with "tariffs" on the memo line.

---

Literally no one thought that

---

trump certainly does

doubledog said:

---

I just bought a replacement part that was in stock with an independent U.S. distributer. The part originates in Germany. The US distributer charged me a 10% tariff fee for a part they own in their warehouse in the U.S.

Now tell me this is not a scam.

---

They have they to replace the part they just sold to you in their inventory

captkirk said:

---

doubledog said:

---

I just bought a replacement part that was in stock with an independent U.S. distributer. The part originates in Germany. The US distributer charged me a 10% tariff fee for a part they own in their warehouse in the U.S.

Now tell me this is not a scam.

---

They have they to replace the part they just sold to you in their inventory

---

they don't have to replace that part. They may choose to do so, but they do t have to.

Ragoo said:

---

captkirk said:

---

doubledog said:

---

I just bought a replacement part that was in stock with an independent U.S. distributer. The part originates in Germany. The US distributer charged me a 10% tariff fee for a part they own in their warehouse in the U.S.

Now tell me this is not a scam.

---

They have they to replace the part they just sold to you in their inventory

---

they don't have to replace that part. They may choose to do so, but they do t have to.

---

Yes, I suppose businesses could just choose to shut down once they sell what they carried in inventory

They choose to replace the part because they choose to stay in business.

EFR said:

---

They choose to replace the part because they choose to stay in business.

---

This

EFR said:

---

They choose to replace the part because they choose to stay in business.

---

they could, gasp, order the part when someone needs it. Holding inventory, cash out the door, is not the only way to stay in business. You also don't know how long the previous part sat in inventory.