Royce Williams

1,478 Views | 9 Replies | Last: 9 days ago by stetson
stetson
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AG
Having received the Congressional Medal of Honor last night, I thought this man deserved his own thread and the rest of the story...

I happened on a post that came across my X feed a month or so ago about a dogfight that took place off North Korea over the Sea of Japan on 18 November 1952. A dogfight between two Navy F9F Panthers operating off the carrier USS Oriskany and seven MiG-15s. A 35-minute engagement that is the longest dogfight in naval history. A dogfight that was immediately classified, never to be spoken of, because these were not North Korean MiG-15s flown by North Korean pilots, but rather Soviet MiG-15s flown by Soviet pilots operating out of Vladivostok. After reading this amazing story, a question entered my mind - is this the "classified" dogfight that Viper is telling Maverick about when explaining what really happened to his dad in the movie "Top Gun"? The carrier is the same, but the war was Vietnam. If so, this is interesting because this story did not become public until 62 years later with the 2014 publication of "Red Devils Over the Yalu: A Chronicle of Soviet Aerial Operations in the Korean War 1950-53" by Russian historian Igor Seidov, - 28 years after Top Gun. Curious to know how this story made its way into the movie.
BQ_90
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No viper was flying f4 in Vietnam. I assumed the dogfight happened over Laos or Cambodia and that's why it was secret or classified
Viper16
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Disregard
The two most dangerous domestic terrorists groups in the USA are the modern democrat party and the main stream media.
Class of ‘73
BTKAG97
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The scene in question:



The USS Oriskany served in both the Korean and Vietnam Wars. The F4 Phantom 2 began service time in 1960 so only Vietnam.

The statement made in Top Gun was most likely speculatory as it was "well known" by the 1980s the US had troops (and airmen) in areas they were not supposed to be. Notice Viper didn't mention Russians. He mentioned lines on a map.
BusterAg
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The stories are too similar for there not to be some tie-in, somewhere.

Even if it was that a kid in Hollywood writing scripts heard from his air force dad that worked on the deck of an aircraft carrier the high-level story of the classified dogfight, and decided to make it into a movie plot.
stetson
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Navy. Oriskany. Classified dogfight with MiGs. Coincidence, maybe. Change the war and add in "lines on a map" to provide cover...
BTKAG97
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stetson said:

Navy. Oriskany. Classified dogfight with MiGs. Coincidence, maybe. Change the war and add in "lines on a map" to provide cover...

The only thing that is out-of-place is the Oriskany as it was too small for F4 Phantoms. Nothing else is coincidence.

The Vietnamese pilots flew MiG-17s, 19s, and 21s along with the Chinese MiG variants.

Top Gun is for Naval Pilots.

"Lines on a Map" is specific to Vietnam (Laos and Cambodia) - not Korea.

While it's possible, one of the Top Gun writers had knowledge of classified information from Korea, I just think it's unlikely.
Ramdiesel
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BTKAG97 said:

stetson said:

Navy. Oriskany. Classified dogfight with MiGs. Coincidence, maybe. Change the war and add in "lines on a map" to provide cover...

The only thing that is out-of-place is the Oriskany as it was too small for F4 Phantoms. Nothing else is coincidence.

The Vietnamese pilots flew MiG-17s, 19s, and 21s along with the Chinese MiG variants.

Top Gun is for Naval Pilots.

"Lines on a Map" is specific to Vietnam (Laos and Cambodia) - not Korea.

While it's possible, one of the Top Gun writers had knowledge of classified information from Korea, I just think it's unlikely.


The Military/ Pentagon does assist with some Hollywood movies giving historical references and sometimes military equipment..

Only reason I know that is because I watched a documentary on Apocalypse Now a few days ago, and in the documentary, they said the American military refused to help like in the past and provide equipment because the movie was so crazy, mystical, and offbase. Probably because of the rampant drug use in the movie and the Vietnam War had just ended when they were starting filming. So, they had to borrow American equipment from the Phillipines for the movie.
Aggie97
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BTKAG97 said:

stetson said:

Navy. Oriskany. Classified dogfight with MiGs. Coincidence, maybe. Change the war and add in "lines on a map" to provide cover...

The only thing that is out-of-place is the Oriskany as it was too small for F4 Phantoms. Nothing else is coincidence.

The Vietnamese pilots flew MiG-17s, 19s, and 21s along with the Chinese MiG variants.

Top Gun is for Naval Pilots.

"Lines on a Map" is specific to Vietnam (Laos and Cambodia) - not Korea.

While it's possible, one of the Top Gun writers had knowledge of classified information from Korea, I just think it's unlikely.


The Navy does not have pilots. They have Naval Aviators.
stetson
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AG
Found this while reading further about this...

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