Trump hosts college sports round table

11,498 Views | 125 Replies | Last: 27 days ago by TyHolden
YouBet
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AG
Now that paying players is the norm, I don't see how you reverse that. This is an all-in situation. If you have to pay them, then you need to implement contracts. Doing that will naturally lead to collective bargaining. Doing that essentially and officially creates the farm league for the NFL and removes all pretense of them being student-athletes.

So, you either commit to this or spend eternity with massive issues and chaos. If a school doesn't want to be a part of the big business of college football, then it can remove itself from participating in college football or find some like-minded schools to create their own old school student-athlete league and go the way of the dodo bird.

It's a real catch 22. No decent sized school with any modern football history whatsoever is going to voluntarily leave the current playing field unless it puts the school in such financial dire straits that they have to.
Burdizzo
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The Shank Ag said:

I feel transfer rules maybe can get more strict, but the second you try to change NIL rules, the ncaa will collapse for football/basketball.


I agree with this proposal. If we are going to keep any semblance that these people are students then let's have rules about transferring . Most universities have rules about changing majors. I think transferring between universities should be managed similarly by the NCAA
Im Gipper
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The Shank Ag said:

I feel transfer rules maybe can get more strict, but the second you try to change NIL rules, the ncaa will collapse for football/basketball.

How so?

I'm Gipper
Burdizzo
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YouBet said:

Now that paying players is the norm, I don't see how you reverse that. This is an all-in situation. If you have to pay them, then you need to implement contracts. Doing that will naturally lead to collective bargaining. Doing that essentially and officially creates the farm league for the NFL and removes all pretense of them being student-athletes.

So, you either commit to this or spend eternity with massive issues and chaos. If a school doesn't want to be a part of the big business of college football, then it can remove itself from participating in college football or find some like-minded schools to create their own old school student-athlete league and go the way of the dodo bird.

It's a real catch 22. No decent sized school with any modern football history whatsoever is going to voluntarily leave the current playing field unless it puts the school in such financial dire straits that they have to.



In theory, NIL money is supposed to be outside of the athletic participation. In practice it is anything but that. Since it is supposed to be for things unrelated to the sports, I don't know how you structure collective bargaining.

I can't imagine policing Johnny Manziel in 2012 for getting $1000 for an autograph. Some bureaucrat is standing there to take 50% so that everyone else can get their cut.
YouBet
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Burdizzo said:

YouBet said:

Now that paying players is the norm, I don't see how you reverse that. This is an all-in situation. If you have to pay them, then you need to implement contracts. Doing that will naturally lead to collective bargaining. Doing that essentially and officially creates the farm league for the NFL and removes all pretense of them being student-athletes.

So, you either commit to this or spend eternity with massive issues and chaos. If a school doesn't want to be a part of the big business of college football, then it can remove itself from participating in college football or find some like-minded schools to create their own old school student-athlete league and go the way of the dodo bird.

It's a real catch 22. No decent sized school with any modern football history whatsoever is going to voluntarily leave the current playing field unless it puts the school in such financial dire straits that they have to.



In theory, NIL money is supposed to be outside of the athletic participation. In practice it is anything but that. Since it is supposed to be for things unrelated to the sports, I don't know how you structure collective bargaining.

I can't imagine policing Johnny Manziel in 2012 for getting $1000 for an autograph. Some bureaucrat is standing there to take 50% so that everyone else can get their cut.


Yeah, the practical implementation of these matters is beyond me. I just know they are going to have to figure this out before it permanently harms the sport. The pro leagues figured this out long ago. College football is currently existing in this hybrid Wild West world. So, you either operate as a pro league or return to full amateur status. Latter possibility seems impossible at this point so you have to push through and be like the pros.

We now have private equity models in college football for god's sake. What's next?
ts5641
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Texagcutie said:

Any thoughts on whether Congress can fix the mess that is college football, the transfer portal and NIL?

The cat is out of the bag and there's no way to put it back in. Maybe institute a cap on NIL to make it even for all schools? But it will still be a disaster.
Ag CPA
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Love how this comes up just when WTI hits $90+ and our NIL funds are getting juiced.

I hate it but we benefit more from NIL than just about everyone besides Tech and IU.
The Shank Ag
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Im Gipper said:

The Shank Ag said:

I feel transfer rules maybe can get more strict, but the second you try to change NIL rules, the ncaa will collapse for football/basketball.

How so?


Somebody with endless money will use it to convince the SEC/B1G/Big12/ACC schools to separate or start a new league that will act as the nfl minor league.

Radical example, but say the PGA decided to go back to the purses for a tournament of pre-tiger times. Every good player would go join that Saudi funded league.
aggiehawg
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Quote:

We now have private equity models in college football for god's sake. What's next?

That is definitely a step too far. Brings back the SMU payroll model.
Urban Ag
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YouBet said:

Only way out is contracts. Will be a mess until then.

This. If the players are going to get NFL money then run it like the NFL. The problem is not the money it's the transfer portal.

aggiehawg
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Urban Ag said:

YouBet said:

Only way out is contracts. Will be a mess until then.

This. If the players are going to get NFL money then run it like the NFL. The problem is not the money it's the transfer portal.

One feeds into the other, IMO. Need restrictions on the transfer portal, or at least disincentives. A liquidated damages clause if a player skates on a contract, such as Georgia is trying to do, would help. A player losing eligibility PLUS a financial penalty? Player would need to think twice about transferring.

Maybe tortious interference with contracts when one school's collective targets and interfere with a player already on contract? And that could extend to player's agents.
Who?mikejones!
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I also thinkt here should no longer be athletic scholarships of the players are going to get paid.
Aston04
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Who?mikejones! said:

I also thinkt here should no longer be athletic scholarships of the players are going to get paid.

If no scholarship--- then they shouldn't have to attend class if they don't want to.
aggiehawg
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Aston04 said:

Who?mikejones! said:

I also thinkt here should no longer be athletic scholarships of the players are going to get paid.

If no scholarship--- then they shouldn't have to attend class if they don't want to.

But attending class could easily be a mandatory part of the player's NIL contract, too.

These are essentially personal service contracts meaning specific performance would be an available remedy.
Im Gipper
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Thanks!

I'm Gipper
Who?mikejones!
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Then they shouldn't be on the team.

We're already there anyway. Wasn't it Carson beck that didn't go to any classes at miami?
BMX Bandit
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Who?mikejones! said:


We're already there anyway. Wasn't it Carson beck that didn't go to any classes at miami?


He went to graduate school in the fall. He was not enrolled for spring, so he had no classes to attend.
oysterbayAG
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Near the end of the round table, Trump's staff should be embarrassed that Trump was unfamiliar with the basic legal history of NIL where the SCOTUS upheld a District Court ruling that the Sherman Act prevents the NCAA from limiting compensation for NIL.It's very unfortunate that a simple court ruling that a person should be paid by someone benefiting by using their NIL has snowballed into this monster can of worms !
BMX Bandit
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oysterbayAG said:

Near the end of the round table, Trump's staff should be embarrassed that Trump was unfamiliar with the basic legal history of NIL where the SCOTUS upheld a District Court ruling that the Sherman Act prevents the NCAA from limiting compensation for NIL. !


the Supreme Court case was not about NIL. Alston dealt with education-related
benefits.

Something about glass houses.
Burpelson
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The biggest problem with NIL, no one knows the rules, kid takes money and decides a couple hrs later he wants more or he leaves, this cannot be how it runs.
txags92
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Burdizzo said:

Question for those that want if fixed

What do you want college sports to be?

I want college sports to be about students first who also happen to play a game that is entertaining to watch. I am fine with them getting paid, but I feel like the "NIL" is a joke. I am not fine with unlimited free agency shopping themselves to the highest bidder at the end of every season. NIL was meant for guys who had legit commercial value to capitalize on their name. Instead it has become purely buying the best team.

I would love to see them go to a system where nobody could get NIL money in their first year with a program. That would stop schools from buying HS kids and from buying transfers.
Azeew
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I think let Saban design it and require an up/down majority vote in House and Senate
SteveA
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AG
It's a farce that this is even relevant, given the real problems he's in to.
FIDO_Ags
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Quote:

I am not fine with unlimited free agency shopping themselves to the highest bidder at the end of every season. NIL was meant for guys who had legit commercial value to capitalize on their name. Instead it has become purely buying the best team.


Why not? It's just the market playing out. Clearly the players are a scarce resource that collectives are willing to pay for so they do have value. It's not like Blinn College has a collective to recruit kids each year (yet) since nobody watches them.

Why shouldn't the players put their skills up for bid at the end of every season if the market allows? Conferences renegotiate their contracts at the end of a contract period and a player negotiates his at the end of a season. Seems fair to me. Coaches have been doing the same thing for years as well.

Either let go of the student athlete idea or decide that no one gets paid and the only way you see a game is to go to it.
Aston04
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aggiehawg said:

Aston04 said:

Who?mikejones! said:

I also thinkt here should no longer be athletic scholarships of the players are going to get paid.

If no scholarship--- then they shouldn't have to attend class if they don't want to.

But attending class could easily be a mandatory part of the player's NIL contract, too.

These are essentially personal service contracts meaning specific performance would be an available remedy.



Why should a dude with a 77 IQ, but amazing physical tools, be required to go to a 4-year school to pursue the dream of playing professional football?

He would be better off playing and going to trade school or working.

College classes are a joke for football players anyway and are professional players. At this point, why does it matter if they attend some online or in-person joke classes or not?
txags92
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Aston04 said:

aggiehawg said:

Aston04 said:

Who?mikejones! said:

I also thinkt here should no longer be athletic scholarships of the players are going to get paid.

If no scholarship--- then they shouldn't have to attend class if they don't want to.

But attending class could easily be a mandatory part of the player's NIL contract, too.

These are essentially personal service contracts meaning specific performance would be an available remedy.



Why should a dude with a 77 IQ, but amazing physical tools, be required to go to a 4-year school to pursue the dream of playing professional football?

He would be better off playing and going to trade school or working.

College classes are a joke for football players anyway and are professional players. At this point, why does it matter if they attend some online or in-person joke classes or not?

Because only a very small fraction of the guys who play college football end up making a living at it professionally. We owe it to them to leave them with at least an opportunity to have a decent life after college with a college degree in their hands, if they take advantage of the resources made available to them and actually learn something. If they choose to blow it off and pay somebody to take their tests and end up selling phones at Tmobile in the dirty nickel, fine, no skin off my back. But at least we gave them the opportunity to do more with their life.
pagerman @ work
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BMX Bandit said:





Big 10 & SEC are generally against this change to allow the pooling.


That plan is gargantuanly stupid.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. It's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
ABATTBQ11
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Sq 17 said:

No without a CBA
you can't put the tooth paste back in the tube

If the feds were going to get involved probably the jr Senator from Alabama should be leading the committee and maybe the POTUS should be not having a stupid photo op


You can with an antitrust exemption
Haleyscomet50
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Aston04 said:

aggiehawg said:

Aston04 said:

Who?mikejones! said:

I also thinkt here should no longer be athletic scholarships of the players are going to get paid.

If no scholarship--- then they shouldn't have to attend class if they don't want to.

But attending class could easily be a mandatory part of the player's NIL contract, too.

These are essentially personal service contracts meaning specific performance would be an available remedy.



Why should a dude with a 77 IQ, but amazing physical tools, be required to go to a 4-year school to pursue the dream of playing professional football?

He would be better off playing and going to trade school or working.

College classes are a joke for football players anyway and are professional players. At this point, why does it matter if they attend some online or in-person joke classes or not?

Completely right but the NFL controls this they don't want to have to spend money to develope or evaluate guys. So that have protections that you can't be drafted for 3 years. Which without those protections would be ruled unconstitutional. The NFL runs the show because they like everything in this country established relationships with government that makes it happen.

Contracts have to be enforceable no other occupation in this country would pay someone millions without a non compete clause. Without rules it's impossible to move forward it's great now but eventually it won't be.
pfo
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AG
A&M is winning in the current system so let's don't change much.

The most needed change is to reform the portal.
Capping NIL will just result in payments under the table again.
Im Gipper
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Unconstitutional??
What?

I'm Gipper
Burdizzo
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AG
txags92 said:

Aston04 said:

aggiehawg said:

Aston04 said:

Who?mikejones! said:

I also thinkt here should no longer be athletic scholarships of the players are going to get paid.

If no scholarship--- then they shouldn't have to attend class if they don't want to.

But attending class could easily be a mandatory part of the player's NIL contract, too.

These are essentially personal service contracts meaning specific performance would be an available remedy.



Why should a dude with a 77 IQ, but amazing physical tools, be required to go to a 4-year school to pursue the dream of playing professional football?

He would be better off playing and going to trade school or working.

College classes are a joke for football players anyway and are professional players. At this point, why does it matter if they attend some online or in-person joke classes or not?

Because only a very small fraction of the guys who play college football end up making a living at it professionally. We owe it to them to leave them with at least an opportunity to have a decent life after college with a college degree in their hands, if they take advantage of the resources made available to them and actually learn something. If they choose to blow it off and pay somebody to take their tests and end up selling phones at Tmobile in the dirty nickel, fine, no skin off my back. But at least we gave them the opportunity to do more with their life.




Here is my problem with that. We don't prepare them for that. Their parents don't do it, and we college sports fans certainly don't do it.

Take two kids in elementary school. One is good at math and science, and one is good at sports. The smart kid gets put in AP classes and browbeaten to keep his grades up so he can, at a minimum, go to his state's flagship college. The athletic kid gets put into travel teams, misses school for sports, and told being average in school is OK because he has a gift of athleticism.

And then we send both of those kids to the same flagship college. When the athletic kid tears his ACL he is not prepared for the rigors of the classroom, we throw up our hands and say, "He should have taken the opportunity he was given."
Azeew
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pfo said:

A&M is winning in the current system so let's don't change much.

The most needed change is to reform the portal.
Capping NIL will just result in payments under the table again.


This X 1 billion
txags92
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AG
Burdizzo said:

txags92 said:

Aston04 said:

aggiehawg said:

Aston04 said:

Who?mikejones! said:

I also thinkt here should no longer be athletic scholarships of the players are going to get paid.

If no scholarship--- then they shouldn't have to attend class if they don't want to.

But attending class could easily be a mandatory part of the player's NIL contract, too.

These are essentially personal service contracts meaning specific performance would be an available remedy.



Why should a dude with a 77 IQ, but amazing physical tools, be required to go to a 4-year school to pursue the dream of playing professional football?

He would be better off playing and going to trade school or working.

College classes are a joke for football players anyway and are professional players. At this point, why does it matter if they attend some online or in-person joke classes or not?

Because only a very small fraction of the guys who play college football end up making a living at it professionally. We owe it to them to leave them with at least an opportunity to have a decent life after college with a college degree in their hands, if they take advantage of the resources made available to them and actually learn something. If they choose to blow it off and pay somebody to take their tests and end up selling phones at Tmobile in the dirty nickel, fine, no skin off my back. But at least we gave them the opportunity to do more with their life.




Here is my problem with that. We don't prepare them for that. Their parents don't do it, and we college sports fans certainly don't do it.

Take two kids in elementary school. One is good at math and science, and one is good at sports. The smart kid gets put in AP classes and browbeaten to keep his grades up so he can, at a minimum, go to his state's flagship college. The athletic kid gets put into travel teams, misses school for sports, and told being average in school is OK because he has a gift of athleticism.

And then we send both of those kids to the same flagship college. When the athletic kid tears his ACL he is not prepared for the rigors of the classroom, we throw up our hands and say, "He should have taken the opportunity he was given."

I don't disagree on the problem of parents not setting kids up for success in the classroom. But with the amount of tutoring and other resources we make available to athletes, anybody who wants to succeed academically can if they are willing to put in the work.
BMX Bandit
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score act is the Cruz bill which gives antitrust exemptions etc. its expected to pass the house but DOA in senate due to union groups being against it.
 
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