Two things:

First, compare what the US has and brings compared to the other 31 nations in NATO.

From last year.


We are the main deterrent in NATO. We are also the overwhelming glue that holds NATO together. Which is why Sec General Rutte was chastising the EU last week. The EU member states would likely fracture should the US leave NATO and withdraw our forces.


Now, this is from last year and some things have changed since then, notably Iran and Venezuela but it speculates that both NATO and the US would have some consequences and not all good for us nor them. Again, all speculative but very plausible.

1985 called, it wants its 'Russia's going to invade the world' fear-mongering psyop back.

More significantly, we are the only real logistical operation/capability in Nato. Sea/air, doesn't matter, all they have are rail/road capabilities, and in a discombobulated way some A400M's, plus a pittance of tankers. Sustaining any operation past a few weeks, at most, on any edge of Europe is beyond Nato's capacity, unless perhaps talking exclusively about Finland's forces in Finland.

Tying together a couple different threads, we know USAID had trainers 'educating' media about disinformation etc, a euphemism for censorship, and the tentacles of what we funded via both that 'agency' and Nato reach far beyond the direct nato annual sustainment costs. A great target to further weaken their DSA/censorship apparatus (via nato withdrawal/weakening), as Kallas recently admitted. Thread;

Kallas:

"The withdrawal of US funding for information integrity has had a major impact on global efforts too. The G7 and NATO have both slowed down their own work as a result."https://t.co/nuoomjhNFv

— Finbarr Bermingham (@fbermingham) March 18, 2026

Nato, as with the EU itself, seeks to undermine and reign in American freedom of speech, among other freedoms. We must continue to work to weaken it.

Farmer_J said:

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1985 called, it wants its 'Russia's going to invade the world' fear-mongering psyop back.

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LOL. Agree that final video gets over their skis but the infighting within NATO members without the US is very possible, IMO. Nor do I think the EU would be able to keep things under control as it does not have the military might to do so.

That type of situation would invite Russian and Chinese adventurism, assuming Russia is even capable. (In doubt right now.)

That 3rd video is a joke. Its opening assertion for US downsides pretends we can't negotiate unilateral agreements for any basing we want...not a serious analysis...unless you think witless Joe Biden is still making decisions

japantiger said:

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That 3rd video is a joke. Its opening assertion for US downsides pretends we can't negotiate unilateral agreements for any basing we want...not a serious analysis...unless you think witless Joe Biden is still making decisions

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That isn't the point. The huge problems with the EU is the point. NATO has very different goals than the EU does but a weakened NATO (without the US) would mean EU member states would need to drastically boost defense spending to the detriment of the social programs that the EU demands. Some nations might be able to absorb those costs better than others. And those unilateral agreements with the US would also become a bone of contention.

None of which is our problem.

You're both right. The deadbeats haven't been pulling their weight at all. We've subsidized their entire existence at the expense of our own.

We all really need to u derstand how backward and bickering the member states are. Russia doesn't have the capability to somehow invade Europe considering they're in a Ukrainian quagmire of their own.

However, Europe also lacks the basic capability to defend themselves.

AlaskanAg99 said:

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You're both right. The deadbeats haven't been pulling their weight at all. We've subsidized their entire existence at the expense of our own.

We all really need to u derstand how backward and bickering the member states are. Russia doesn't have the capability to somehow invade Europe considering they're in a Ukrainian quagmire of their own.

However, Europe also lacks the basic capability to defend themselves.

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They cannot even maintain what they currently have without American help. Further, from both a strategic and a tactical standpoint, having systems that are integrated with each other means every EU NATO member sharing their technology with each other. It is one thing for us to share our tech with the rest of NATO but would that also hold true for member states? Like say, Turkey?

aggiehawg said:

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AlaskanAg99 said:

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You're both right. The deadbeats haven't been pulling their weight at all. We've subsidized their entire existence at the expense of our own.

We all really need to u derstand how backward and bickering the member states are. Russia doesn't have the capability to somehow invade Europe considering they're in a Ukrainian quagmire of their own.

However, Europe also lacks the basic capability to defend themselves.

---

They cannot even maintain what they currently have without American help. Further, from both a strategic and a tactical standpoint, having systems that are integrated with each other means every EU NATO member sharing their technology with each other. It is one thing for us to share our tech with the rest of NATO but would that also hold true for member states? Like say, Turkey?

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I dont remember the specific but I think they wanted to buy F35s and the Russian S-400. They were told to pound sand.

Cripple fight!

Just think of it this way, without us backing Ukraine, they would have fallen years ago.

From last year. Comparisons between US and UK. (And that is assuming UK's are operational which is a big assumption.)

Stop it, I'm already sold on leaving nato!

AlaskanAg99 said:

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You're both right. The deadbeats haven't been pulling their weight at all. We've subsidized their entire existence at the expense of our own.

We all really need to u derstand how backward and bickering the member states are. Russia doesn't have the capability to somehow invade Europe considering they're in a Ukrainian quagmire of their own.

However, Europe also lacks the basic capability to defend themselves.

---

It's a Catch 22 of fail.

It's a trifecta: capability is irrelevant without a will.

The reason we have to be abrupt is the euros would want to discuss thus for the next 20 years. Just draaaag things out "negotiating".

Much they'd like to do with Iran while Iran built the bomb.

nortex97 said:

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More significantly, we are the only real logistical operation/capability in Nato. Sea/air, doesn't matter, all they have are rail/road capabilities, and in a discombobulated way some A400M's, plus a pittance of tankers. Sustaining any operation past a few weeks, at most, on any edge of Europe is beyond Nato's capacity, unless perhaps talking exclusively about Finland's forces in Finland.

Tying together a couple different threads, we know USAID had trainers 'educating' media about disinformation etc, a euphemism for censorship, and the tentacles of what we funded via both that 'agency' and Nato reach far beyond the direct nato annual sustainment costs. A great target to further weaken their DSA/censorship apparatus (via nato withdrawal/weakening), as Kallas recently admitted. Thread;

Kallas:

"The withdrawal of US funding for information integrity has had a major impact on global efforts too. The G7 and NATO have both slowed down their own work as a result."https://t.co/nuoomjhNFv

— Finbarr Bermingham (@fbermingham) March 18, 2026

Nato, as with the EU itself, seeks to undermine and reign in American freedom of speech, among other freedoms. We must continue to work to weaken it.

---

nortex97 you forgot ISR and AWACs capabilities. The NATO countries don't have satellites & quality of satellites we have.

Right. They're leeches. They provide next to nothing.

A very good article by VDH:

https://www.dailysignal.com/2026/04/09/well-be-your-canada-brutal-reality-check-for-nato-free-riders/

Brilliant. And he's right. We should contribute 1/32 of NATO's budget and not a dime more.

93MarineHorn said:

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Why would the US leaving NATO mean we wouldn't help Euros should the need arise? OP's premise is flawed. We would help the Euros as we always have but they need to do much more to strengthen their position instead of counting on us to dissuade aggression.

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We will just pass along the same message that they all said to us about Iran: "We support you but we aren't getting involved."

He must read this board. Could have cobbled that together from several of our posts.

Exhibit "A" of the fecklessness of the EU. And that effect on NATO without the US.

🚨 JUST NOW: UK PM Keir Starmer and French President Emmanuel Macron have ARRIVED to talk about maybe doing something to secure the Strait of Hormuz

Is there anybody more USELESS than these two?

They're endlessly talking while President Trump WENT IT ALONE.

In fact, the Gulf… pic.twitter.com/BdjwcOsBI6

— Eric Daugherty (@EricLDaugh) April 17, 2026

Just screams pathetic.

YouBet said:

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Just screams pathetic.

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Yes it does. Until last year, I never really did a deep dive on how far the member states of the EU and NATO were so far behind in their military readiness, not just tactically but strategically. Now that I have begun to research the issues, it is appalling how shortsighted they collectively are.

Now, other than nukes, do I still believe Russia is an existential threat to Europe? At the moment, likely not. A decade from now? Who knows? But still need to plan as if they can pose such a threat.

PRESIDENT TRUMP:

"Now that the Hormuz Strait situation is over, I received a call from NATO asking if we would need some help. I told them to stay away, unless they just want to load up their ships with oil. They were useless when needed, a paper tiger!" pic.twitter.com/PF5FZLlJDk

— The Kobeissi Letter (@KobeissiLetter) April 17, 2026

Trump has really shown how useless NATO is in their own backyard.

Quote:

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'Now that the Hormuz Strait situation is over, I received a call from NATO asking if we would need some help,' Trump wrote on Truth Social.
He said that he replied that 'useless' NATO should 'stay away' because they just 'want to load up their ships with oil.'

---

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15742301/Trump-cheers-oil-prices-PLUNGE-Iran-declares-Strait-Hormuz-completely-open-Ready-passage.html

aggiehawg said:

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YouBet said:

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Just screams pathetic.

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Yes it does. Until last year, I never really did a deep dive on how far the member states of the EU and NATO were so far behind in their military readiness, not just tactically but strategically. Now that I have begun to research the issues, it is appalling how shortsighted they collectively are.

Now, other than nukes, do I still believe Russia is an existential threat to Europe? At the moment, likely not. A decade from now? Who knows? But still need to plan as if they can pose such a threat.

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Correct, other than threats of nukes, Russia is burning through its military aged population with very little to show for it. It has chewed through its military hardware equipment and reserves. This has also completely changed the face of warfare. Russias demographics are so terrible their ability to project power will be diminished for decades.

Which is also one the major reasons for action against Iran. Eliminate their ability to threaten the region with missiles and drones while they continued their work on nuclear weapons.

EU leaders assisting Trump to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. pic.twitter.com/ZV1H7oPLSx

— Harmless (@HarmlessHQ) April 17, 2026

This is a Frontline report from 1988 which is telling on the friction back in 1988 with only 16 NATO countries vs today's expanded NATO:

Buck Turgidson said:

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Who wins between the wildly incompetent, untrained, unmotivated and ill-equipped Russians and the largely imaginary NATO-sans-US forces? The drunken assclown Russians might run out of fuel before they can get to the Polish border (assuming they can find it), but IF they get there, will any Europeans show up to mount a credible resistance? When I think of the non-US NATO forces, I think of the song "But then I got high".

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I believe Poland can hold their own. The rest will crap the bed.

Even if we don't leave NATO we need to leave Spain & kick them out of NATO because 70 Huawei critical infrastructure products:

Quote:

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Mr. Sanchez aims to reorient Spain away from the trans-Atlantic alliance toward a coalition of anti-American, anti-Western regimes. He has called for a greater Chinese role in global security and defense, supports the annexation of Taiwan and has opened Spain to 70 Huawei critical infrastructure products, effectively turning Spain into China's gateway to Europe.
Many now question why we continue to subsidize the security of a nation that actively works against our national security interests.

---

The full Opinion:

Quote:

---

Spain, NATO's weakest link
Far-left Sanchez government is sabotaging the alliance
By Emilio T. Gonzalez
President Trump's recent threat to sever trade ties with Spain was not impulsive.
It was the long-overdue recognition that the far-left socialist government of Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez has transformed Spain into the weakest link in and a danger to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
For years, Madrid has shirked its defense responsibilities, aligned itself with America's most virulent adversaries and created a culture of corruption that has reached the highest levels of government. This policy of appeasement has failed.
The Sanchez government has proved itself an unreliable partner and a strategic liability in an increasingly dangerous world. It has strengthened NATO's adversaries while systematically dismantling the organization's foundation of shared commitment and mutual burden-sharing.
This rift was most recently caused by Madrid's flagrant obstruction of Operation Epic Fury, when Sanchez denied the U.S. use of our jointly operated Spanish air bases. Doubling down, the government then denied Spanish airspace to all U.S. military aircraft.
At the 2025 NATO summit, as the alliance faced a renewed threat from an aggressive Russia, members agreed to a new, binding pledge to spend at least 3.5% of gross domestic product on defense. Spain was the only member nation to reject this commitment.
Mr. Sanchez secured a special exemption to cap spending at a paltry 2.1%, a continuation of a long-standing policy of dereliction.
The Sanchez government's sabotage of NATO is the logical extension of a foreign policy that actively courts the enemies of the United States. Under Mr. Sanchez, Madrid has become the European capital for a confederacy of anti-American, leftist regimes, providing them with diplomatic cover, economic lifelines, international respectability and a platform to attack Western interests.
Mr. Sanchez aims to reorient Spain away from the trans-Atlantic alliance toward a coalition of anti-American, anti-Western regimes. He has called for a greater Chinese role in global security and defense, supports the annexation of Taiwan and has opened Spain to 70 Huawei critical infrastructure products, effectively turning Spain into China's gateway to Europe.
Many now question why we continue to subsidize the security of a nation that actively works against our national security interests.
The ruling Spanish Socialist Workers Party coalition's ties to the narco-dictatorship in Venezuela are well-documented. Former Spanish Prime Minister Jose Rodriguez Zapatero, a Chinese lobbyist, is under investigation by Spain's National Court for his collaboration with the cartels. When the U.S. captured dictator Nicolas Maduro, Spain was the only European Union government to denounce the arrest.
Mr. Sanchez's pro-Tehran stance is driven by his far-left coalition partners. Some of them have documented financial ties to the Iranian regime, having received millions of dollars through front organizations. This allegiance is reflected in Spain's fanatical anti-Israel posture.
Iran reportedly posted stickers featuring anti-war comments by Mr. Sanchez on missiles launched at Israel.
Madrid recently recognized a Palestinian state, a move celebrated by Hamas. Mr. Sanchez has sold Iran dual-use technology while imposing a total arms embargo on Israel. This followed a 2025 decision to block any arms shipments through Spain to Israel. Cabinet members have joined anti Israel street protests. The transportation minister publicly called Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a "genocidal *******." Mr. Sanchez recalled Spain's ambassador to Israel while reopening the Spanish Embassy in Tehran. He also called on the European Union to suspend all trade agreements with Israel. Spain has long been Cuba's chief advocate in Europe, consistently working to weaken EU sanctions and expand trade and aid with the communist dictatorship. This policy provides a vital economic lifeline to a failed and repressive regime, undermining the cause of freedom and democracy 90 miles from our shores. Mr. Sanchez's parliamentary socialist coalition includes communists, far-left regional separatists and terrorist-front parties. The prime minister has gone from policy critic to hardened political opponent. He is the most virulent and public anti-U.S. political leader and anti-Trump standardbearer in Europe and a darling of global liberals. Mr. Sanchez's deliberate and sustained campaign of financial delinquency, operational obstruction and ideological alignment with U.S. adversaries has transformed Spain from a historically reliable ally and partner into NATO's weakest link.
It's time to stop playing nice and start thinking about aligning ourselves more with those who want to align with us.
Emilio T. Gonzalez is a retired U.S. intelligence officer who has served in se-nior positions in the U.S. Army, on the National Security Council and within the Department of Homeland Security.

---

KentK93 said:

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Even if we don't leave NATO we need to leave Spain & kick them out of NATO because 70 Huawei critical infrastructure products:

Quote:

---

Mr. Sanchez aims to reorient Spain away from the trans-Atlantic alliance toward a coalition of anti-American, anti-Western regimes. He has called for a greater Chinese role in global security and defense, supports the annexation of Taiwan and has opened Spain to 70 Huawei critical infrastructure products, effectively turning Spain into China's gateway to Europe.
Many now question why we continue to subsidize the security of a nation that actively works against our national security interests.

---

The full Opinion:

Quote:

---

Spain, NATO's weakest link
Far-left Sanchez government is sabotaging the alliance
By Emilio T. Gonzalez
President Trump's recent threat to sever trade ties with Spain was not impulsive.
It was the long-overdue recognition that the far-left socialist government of Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez has transformed Spain into the weakest link in and a danger to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.
For years, Madrid has shirked its defense responsibilities, aligned itself with America's most virulent adversaries and created a culture of corruption that has reached the highest levels of government. This policy of appeasement has failed.
The Sanchez government has proved itself an unreliable partner and a strategic liability in an increasingly dangerous world. It has strengthened NATO's adversaries while systematically dismantling the organization's foundation of shared commitment and mutual burden-sharing.
This rift was most recently caused by Madrid's flagrant obstruction of Operation Epic Fury, when Sanchez denied the U.S. use of our jointly operated Spanish air bases. Doubling down, the government then denied Spanish airspace to all U.S. military aircraft.
At the 2025 NATO summit, as the alliance faced a renewed threat from an aggressive Russia, members agreed to a new, binding pledge to spend at least 3.5% of gross domestic product on defense. Spain was the only member nation to reject this commitment.
Mr. Sanchez secured a special exemption to cap spending at a paltry 2.1%, a continuation of a long-standing policy of dereliction.
The Sanchez government's sabotage of NATO is the logical extension of a foreign policy that actively courts the enemies of the United States. Under Mr. Sanchez, Madrid has become the European capital for a confederacy of anti-American, leftist regimes, providing them with diplomatic cover, economic lifelines, international respectability and a platform to attack Western interests.
Mr. Sanchez aims to reorient Spain away from the trans-Atlantic alliance toward a coalition of anti-American, anti-Western regimes. He has called for a greater Chinese role in global security and defense, supports the annexation of Taiwan and has opened Spain to 70 Huawei critical infrastructure products, effectively turning Spain into China's gateway to Europe.
Many now question why we continue to subsidize the security of a nation that actively works against our national security interests.
The ruling Spanish Socialist Workers Party coalition's ties to the narco-dictatorship in Venezuela are well-documented. Former Spanish Prime Minister Jose Rodriguez Zapatero, a Chinese lobbyist, is under investigation by Spain's National Court for his collaboration with the cartels. When the U.S. captured dictator Nicolas Maduro, Spain was the only European Union government to denounce the arrest.
Mr. Sanchez's pro-Tehran stance is driven by his far-left coalition partners. Some of them have documented financial ties to the Iranian regime, having received millions of dollars through front organizations. This allegiance is reflected in Spain's fanatical anti-Israel posture.
Iran reportedly posted stickers featuring anti-war comments by Mr. Sanchez on missiles launched at Israel.
Madrid recently recognized a Palestinian state, a move celebrated by Hamas. Mr. Sanchez has sold Iran dual-use technology while imposing a total arms embargo on Israel. This followed a 2025 decision to block any arms shipments through Spain to Israel. Cabinet members have joined anti Israel street protests. The transportation minister publicly called Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a "genocidal *******." Mr. Sanchez recalled Spain's ambassador to Israel while reopening the Spanish Embassy in Tehran. He also called on the European Union to suspend all trade agreements with Israel. Spain has long been Cuba's chief advocate in Europe, consistently working to weaken EU sanctions and expand trade and aid with the communist dictatorship. This policy provides a vital economic lifeline to a failed and repressive regime, undermining the cause of freedom and democracy 90 miles from our shores. Mr. Sanchez's parliamentary socialist coalition includes communists, far-left regional separatists and terrorist-front parties. The prime minister has gone from policy critic to hardened political opponent. He is the most virulent and public anti-U.S. political leader and anti-Trump standardbearer in Europe and a darling of global liberals. Mr. Sanchez's deliberate and sustained campaign of financial delinquency, operational obstruction and ideological alignment with U.S. adversaries has transformed Spain from a historically reliable ally and partner into NATO's weakest link.
It's time to stop playing nice and start thinking about aligning ourselves more with those who want to align with us.
Emilio T. Gonzalez is a retired U.S. intelligence officer who has served in se-nior positions in the U.S. Army, on the National Security Council and within the Department of Homeland Security.

---

---

Holy wall of text, Batman!

Politico but Trump is apparently stack ranking our fake allies in nato and will then give benefits and punishments accordingly. Also wondered why Canada is even in G7.

Trump weighs consequences for NATO allies on 'naughty' list https://t.co/GE8RDttxGq via @politico

— Bo Snerdley (@BoSnerdley) April 22, 2026