Old McDonald said:

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an income of $400k and/or net worth of $3 million is not "middle class," that's close to 95th percentile in the US

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From the article:

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There is no single, standard definition of middle class, or upper middle class, and what counts as a hefty income in one city can feel paltry in another. The AEI report, by Stephen Rose and Scott Winship, classified a family of three earning $133,000 to $400,000 in 2024 dollars as upper middle class. Households earning more were categorized as rich. The analysis looked just at incomes, not assets such as stocks or real estate.

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Old McDonald said:

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an income of $400k and/or net worth of $3 million is not "middle class," that's close to 95th percentile in the US

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Since progressives don't understand economics, let me help you. Go reread MouthBQ's post and think really, really hard.

I can totally relate. We are comfortable but frugal. Guess I better go change the breaks on the old ford.... rockauto had the break pads and rotors for 31 bucks!

Signel said:

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Guess I better go change the breaks on the old ford.... rockauto had the break pads and rotors for 31 bucks!

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Good grief, man. How old is that Ford? 50 years?

This is my story. I'm 53 and will pull the trigger on retirement next June 2027. Could have retired a couple of years ago, but if my child is still in high school, and I can't move to my final retirement destination, might as well get paid for sticking around. We did it without an engineering degree, to boot!

Save till it hurts. Delay gratification. Live beneath your means. Work hard. Recipe is time tested and always works.

halfastros81 said:

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You missed the part about a range of $130-400k?

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no i read that plainly, the upper bound for "upper middle class" ought to be much lower than $400k

Old McDonald said:

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halfastros81 said:

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You missed the part about a range of $130-400k?

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no i read that plainly, the upper bound for "upper middle class" ought to be much lower than $400k

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In which city and state?

$400k in Anchorage, Alaska isn't that awesome. In San Antonio? Sure.

If you graduated with an engineering degree in the 80's and were able to get a job in your related field of study with a good company that offered a 401K matching program and started contributing 10% of your income and never stopped you should easily be a millionaire by now - probably upwards of $3 million like the guy in the article.

He'd have at least twice that if it weren't for the greedy "Boomers" ahead of him hogging all the money, oh…and the CEOs. (Couldn't help myself)


That being said, the greatest rule in wealth creation will always be "Pay yourself first". Put money away before you ever see it in some sort of automatic investment program, and don't touch it. Compound interest is your greatest friend.

The best way to do this is live well below your means while you are younger (and splurging only on unique experiences not uber eats). Banking as much money into financial planning as you can. This probably means renting a very modest place, and investing in the market.

Basically. FIRE.

There is likely no other time in one's life that one can control expenses better than when you are young right out of college. Life will eventually dictate where your money goes. House, family, etc. etc. But if you can get a BIG head start here, time will take over the rest while you have to spend money on the other big ticket items later on.

You will be a millionaire. Probably pretty quick. Then...time really takes over after that.

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That being said, the greatest rule in wealth creation will always be "Pay yourself first". Put money away before you ever see it in some sort of automatic investment program, and don't touch it. Compound interest is your greatest friend.

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Adding onto this for the few younger Ags here.

Start, at minimum, saving into your 401k the amount that your company will fully match up to. Typically, it's 6% yours, and they add 3%. Then, every time you get a raise, up your contribution by 1% until you are maxed out on the dollar amount you can give.

CDUB98 said:

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That being said, the greatest rule in wealth creation will always be "Pay yourself first". Put money away before you ever see it in some sort of automatic investment program, and don't touch it. Compound interest is your greatest friend.

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Adding onto this for the few younger Ags here.

Start, at minimum, saving into your 401k the amount that your company will fully match up to. Typically, it's 6% yours, and that add 3%. Then, every time you get a raise, up your contribution by 1% until you are maxed out on the dollar amount you can give.

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And don't let your wife know you're doing it....

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And don't let your wife know you're doing it....

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Do what?

My wife did/is doing the same thing.

If you can't be open and honest with your wife about finances, there are already problems.

I diversified my portfolio into Beanie Babies, Pogs, and Precious Moments figurines. As soon as one of them skyrockets I'll be able to retire comfortably.

Tex117 said:

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The best way to do this is live well below your means while you are younger (and splurging only on unique experiences not uber eats). Banking as much money into financial planning as you can. This probably means renting a very modest place, and investing in the market.

Basically. FIRE.

There is likely no other time in one's life that one can control expenses better than when you are young right out of college. Life will eventually dictate where your money goes. House, family, etc. etc. But if you can get a BIG head start here, time will take over the rest while you have to spend money on the other big ticket items later on.

You will be a millionaire. Probably pretty quick. Then...time really takes over after that.

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Yes sir. Smartest Man in Babylon technique.

techno-ag said:

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/investment/more-americans-are-breaking-into-the-upper-middle-class/ar-AA20a2uH

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Randy Shilling went to public high school in Corpus Christi, Texas. He graduated from Texas A&M University with a petroleum engineering degree.

For the first decade of his career, he lived in an apartment and worried about paying for vacations. Then, in his early 30s, he landed a job at a chemical plant that paid about 15% more plus bonuses, and life felt smoother. Around the same time, he bought a house on a golf course in the Houston suburb of Humble, Texas. Promotions and pay raises followed, and he saved more than $3 million for retirement. Almost without realizing it, Shilling ascended into the upper middle class.

"I view myself as an average Joe. I don't have to have a fancy car. I don't have to have the greatest TV," said Shilling, who is 58. "But when I want something, I go get it."

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This is good to see, not just that a "regular Joe" Aggie is touted as getting rich through hard work, but that the Millionaire Next Door concept is alive and well. It's the American dream, and the current administration makes it far more possible than the last one.

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Front page of the print edition of the Wall Street Journal this morning.

CDUB98 said:

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That being said, the greatest rule in wealth creation will always be "Pay yourself first". Put money away before you ever see it in some sort of automatic investment program, and don't touch it. Compound interest is your greatest friend.

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Adding onto this for the few younger Ags here.

Start, at minimum, saving into your 401k the amount that your company will fully match up to. Typically, it's 6% yours, and that add 3%. Then, every time you get a raise, up your contribution by 1% until you are maxed out on the dollar amount you can give.

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Wish I would have done this. I pretty much stayed between 6% and 10% most of my career until the kids got out of college. I'm doing OK and probably going to retire in a couple of years at 65, but could have retired at 60 or sooner if I'd been more disciplined about increasing my % of income going into the 401k each year. My rough guestimate is that if I would have started out at 6% and increased my contribution 1% per year I would have reached max contribution by about 2004 ($13,000) and then if I would have stayed at the max as it increased from there I would probably have at least $1 mil more than I have today.

Engineering has definitely been a great path to financial security. I maxed out my 401K every year for the past 31 years. Despite my wife being a stay at home mom, we were able to put 3 kids through college and still meet our financial goals. I am worried, however, about our kids. Two of them have really good jobs, but my son in law just lost his job. AI may make some of these traditional paths to financial security invalid.

I see some tough sledding for my own career. I would like to get another 7-8 years in before I retire, but not sure if I will make it.

Maybe so if your income is $400k yr over yr but I'd take issue with someone that made $400k for a yr being automatically defined as upper class or even perhaps your best 5 yrs over say a 40 yr career. Classes are mostly defined by net worth rather than income anyway but that's a whole different discussion.i'd definitely argue $3Mm net worth in late 50's or 60's as being upper middle class vs wealthy but we probably have different views of it.

Thunderstruck xx said:

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A million dollars ain't what it used to be, especially if a lot of that is in your home equity and retirement accounts you can't touch yet.

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Here's a breakdown based on the most recent Federal Reserve data (2022 Survey of Consumer Finances, the latest available):

Median Retirement Savings Ages 65 to 74

Median retirement savings: $200,000

ChemEng94 said:

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Engineering has definitely been a great path to financial security.

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Username checks out!

CanyonAg77 said:

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Good for him. Seems like he more or less did the Dave Ramsey plan of saving now so you can retire comfortably.

There's a lot of Aggies who are probably millionaires.

The bad news is that to live like a millionaire did when I graduated in 1977, you need $7.4 million

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that's just not correct

Based on CPI data, the U.S. CPI was 60.6 in 1977 and 325.252 in 2026

reflecting an average inflation rate of about 3.49% per year over those 49 years.

Using those figures: $1,000,000 in 1977 $5,366,667 in 2026 (roughly $5.37 million)

The math: 325.252 60.6 $1,000,000 = ~$5,367,000

In other words, a 1977 dollar had about 5.4 the purchasing power of a 2026 dollar so your million bucks back then was worth the equivalent of well over $5 million today.

The CPI has also been politically manipulated over the years to understate the real rate of inflation. Anything consumers do to substitute a cheaper product for a more expensive one is allowed to offset the reported rate of inflation. That is BS. If I choose to sub chicken for beef, that's a choice I make to save money. The government shouldn't claim credit and say that inflation is less because of it.

My chicken-for-beef scenario is an illustrative example only to make a point. I'm not trying to be precisely accurate with it.

I didn't do all that math. I went to

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

I put in the initial year of 1977 and a million dollars.

Or at least I thought I did. Turns out I used 1973 for the initial year.

ooops

Thunderstruck xx said:

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A million dollars ain't what it used to be, especially if a lot of that is in your home equity and retirement accounts you can't touch yet.

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It is going to be a lot less when the economy craters due to the national debt.

Median retirement account is around $200k. $3 large puts this individual right near the top 5%. Well done!

Y'all need to be maxing your 401k from day one unless you have a better investment strategy. If you're just spending it you're a dumbazz. If your company doesn't match or doesn't have a good match, you need to be looking for one that does.

Only .1-.2% of Americans retire with $5 million or more saved!

1.8% retire with $2 million saved

3.2% retire with $1 million saved.

These are not "net worth" numbers but rather actual savings.

- the Employee Benefit Research Institute (EBRI) and the Federal Reserve's Survey of Consumer Finances.

Not sure where the upper middle class is in there but those are the numbers.

Average American retires with a median of $200k

As I get ready to retire (early) and help guide my children, I can't impress enough how little your income means… it's all about savings. The vast vast vast majority of Americans fail miserably to prepare to self finance a 30 year retirement. Start young, be disciplined, don't stop and take it real damn seriously as early as you can. MOST don't!

Here's where I take a bit of issue about the median retiree having only $200k. It's understated in this respect imo.

Median Social Security retirement income ( 1 person not 2) is $2k per month. The present value of 15 yrs at 2k per month at 3% discount rate is approx $279k alone . It may not be "savings " per se but it definitely impacts retirement cash flow positively . Retirement "savings" alone don't tell the story with enough context . Same could be said for a pension as well if a lump sum buy out isn't available.

Don't get me wrong, I wish SS never existed but it does and it has an impact.

Totally agree with your Save, save, save concept but post retirement income does also matter in whatever form it comes in (from SS, from investments, from real estate holdings, etc)

A million bucks in the 70s being worth 5 million today is worrying enough.

But it's likely worth/purchasing power in 2050 is absolutely terrifying

sam callahan said:

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A million bucks in the 70s being worth 5 million today is worrying enough.

But it's likely worth/purchasing power in 2050 is absolutely terrifying

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Invest wisely.

myself and my business partner opened a small petrochemical company at 28 and we both made a nice living as the company grew over the years. I blew money like crazy because I had excess cash in my early 30s, 40s. and now 50s.. I have plenty of money to retire on whenever I want to, but I still like working a little each week and I do still blow money on cars, trucks, boats, motorhomes, Aggie sports tickets and vacations. remember, there is always more than one way to skin a cat, however, there is very little ways to skin a turnip... dont be a turnip!

the average American makes his money throughout their lives usually working for other companies, thats not a bad way to do it to be honest as long as you are putting money away

I remember meeting Randy years ago... he worked at a chemical plant

Tons of good advice for young people here. I'll add that for older folks, it's not too late to start. My parents were a great example of this. They hit 40 in the late 70s and had only a rainy day fund for savings at that point (plus money saved to pay for at least some of my college). By the mid 90s when Dad retired (Mom had stopped working a few years earlier), they had over $800K saved. That's $1.7 million in 2026 dollars. They completely buckled down on spending basically.

Divorce cost me half my retirement ten years ago.

I can absolutely state I'm better off without her. There is no way I'd have the level of money I have socked away now if I was still married to that woman.

Why is divorce so expensive? Because it's worth it!

54 here. 2 ag degrees, BS and Masters. Been in heavy manufacturing for the last 27 years at the same company. I pay more in taxes than I my take home pay. Can retire and can more than double my take home pay. Can walk away right now. Did it all by being fiscally responsible. First wife kept the house. I kept my retirement. She got all our non 401k investments as well. Bought my house with cash. Put my daughter through school and dental school. Im trying to stick around to let my egg grow. Want to buy a nice small ranch west of I35 and a place in the mountains. Figure if I stick around for another 2 years I should have 1-1.5 million to do this with.

Completely possible if you aren't stupid with your money. I see many people buy nice cars and nicer homes - way nicer than I have ever lived in who make more money than I do and are essentially broke.

Saving isn't a value anymore. I think these young kids under 25 get it, but seems like the last 40 years success meant having things. I always believed financial independence meant success.

I dont believe Im rich. I dont act or spend like Im rich. But, what I'm reading lately, people are in trouble. At the same time, I pull into our company parking lot in my bought used with cash 2013 vehicle. I see these kids and even people my age who I know what they make driving 100k vehicles.