Australia Charges Victoria Cross Recipient with "War Crimes" Over Afghanistan Service

4,467 Views | 48 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by MagnumLoad
Rapier108
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Quote:

Ben Roberts-Smith had offered to present himself to police if they were going to charge him with war crimes but was instead arrested in front of his teenage daughters in public.

A source close to Australia's most decorated soldier said authorities had set out to 'inflict maximum distress' when Roberts-Smith was taken into custody on Tuesday morning at Sydney Airport.

He was charged with five counts of 'war crime - murder' following a five-year joint investigation by the Australian Federal Police (AFP) and the Office of the Special Investigator (OSI).

Armed AFP officers swooped when the Victoria Cross recipient arrived on a Qantas flight from Brisbane and took him to Mascot police station where he was refused bail.

Footage captured Roberts-Smith wearing a polo shirt, jeans and cap, being led down a stairway off the aircraft and escorted across the tarmac to a white four-wheel drive.

A Nine News television camera crew had been waiting at the airport to film the 47-year-old's arrest when the plane touched down.

Nine newspapers first published claims Roberts-Smith had committed war crimes while serving with the SAS in Afghanistan in a series of stories run in 2018.

A source close to the father-of-two said there was no need to arrest Roberts-Smith so publicly, after media had been tipped off, and in the presence of his daughters.

<snip>

The source said Roberts-Smith's legal team had repeatedly told the AFP and OSI he would present himself 'at a time and place of their choosing should any charges be brought'.

'Instead, he was arrested upon arrival in Sydney during a short visit with his children,' the source said.

'In doing so, authorities chose to inflict maximum distress in front of his two young daughters.

'It is particularly concerning that media, including Nine News, appeared to have been notified in advance.'

Roberts-Smith, who along with his VC earnt a Medal for Gallantry in Afghanistan, has always denied committing any war crimes while serving with the Australian Defence Force (ADF).

'Mr Roberts-Smith is entitled to the presumption of innocence - a cornerstone of our justice system, and one he fought to defend in service of his country, that has to date been conspicuously absent in his case,' the source said. 'That must now change.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15711683/ben-roberts-smith-arrested-war-crimes-airport.html

At this point, it is a race to the bottom between the UK, Canada, and Australia. The UK and Canada will be speaking Arabic sooner rather than later. Australia will end up speaking Chinese.

They can't prove he did any of this, but they will make sure he is convicted for no other reason than the leftists that run Australia need to denigrate his service for their own political ends.

And even if he killed a civilian, that is not automatically a "war crime." In war, **** happens, and sometimes innocent people die.
EFR
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Maybe we should watch the trial play out and see what evidence is presented.
Urban Ag
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Sure, why not. But considering the ridiculous, grandstanding, nature of the arrest, I tend to think this just more leftist antics in the castration of a once decent western country. Op's instincts are most likely correct.
EFR
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I wouldn't read too much into the arrest. People with murder warrants don't generally get to choose their time date and place of surrender. My guess is the warrant was issued, cops knew where he was and went and got him. All we are seeing is what his attorneys and PR people are saying. Again, let's see what evidence is presented. It should be interesting and they may have some pretty solid evidence just based on how the civil trial turned out.
ABATTBQ11
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The Australians investigated their special forces in Afghanistan from 2016-2020 and found credible evidence for dozens of civilian murders, including the systemic, outright execution of civilian prisoners and planting of weapons on dead civilians killed in combat. This wasn't, "Oh, we made a terrible mistake in the heat of combat," stuff, it was, "We just killed everyone and then planted guns to cover our asses," stuff. Because of the nature of who they were prosecuting and for what, it's taken a long time to bring some of the cases forward. Not saying he's guilty, but this is not a dog and pony show. These guys absolutely ****ed up bad.
cevans_40
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ABATTBQ11
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https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_departments/Parliamentary_Library/Research/Briefing_Book/47th_Parliament/BreretonReport

Quote:

The Brereton Report states that credible information existed of 23 incidents in which one or more non-combatants were unlawfully killed by or at the direction of Australian Special Forces, which may constitute the war crime of murder. There was also credible information of a further 2 incidents where a non-combatant was mistreated in a way that may constitute the war crime of cruel treatment (pp. 2829). The report found credible information that during these alleged incidents, a total of 39 individuals were killed and a further 2 individuals were treated cruelly. In total, 25 current or former ADF personnel were identified as alleged perpetrators- either as principals or accessories (p. 29).

The Brereton Report states that these acts were not 'incidents of disputable decisions made under pressure in the heat of battle' (p. 29). Rather, they were situations 'in which it was or should have been plain that the person killed was a non-combatant, or hors-de-combat' (p. 29). If an individual is hors-de-combat this means that they are in the power of an adverse party, they have clearly expressed an intention to surrender or they are defenceless because, for example, they are unconscious or incapacitated. Attacking an individual who is hors-de-combat is prohibited under IHL and they must be treated humanely.

The Brereton Report also found that there is credible information that some members of the ADF placed weapons with the body of an 'enemy killed in action'. This was done 'in order to portray that the person killed had been carrying the weapon or other military equipment when engaged and was a legitimate target' (p. 29).



BusterAg
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AG
I still hate the public arrest thing.

Does Australia have a court marshall system? That is where things like this belong.
Rapier108
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BusterAg said:

I still hate the public arrest thing.

Does Australia have a court marshall system? That is where things like this belong.


AggieGunslinger
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AG
We really need to re-evaluate who we are sharing intel with. Five Eyes is dead, any information sent to the UK ends up in the middle east and everything headed to Australia ends up with the Chinese.
Urban Ag
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I'm sure this multi-year investigation was completely unbiased, assumed nothing, and had no intended outcome whatsoever.
Rapier108
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Urban Ag said:

I'm sure this multi-year investigation was completely unbiased, assumed nothing, and had no intended outcome whatsoever.

The Australian government was paying for billboards in Afghanistan offering to pay people to come forward with accusations of "war crimes."
Mas89
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ABATTBQ11 said:

The Australians investigated their special forces in Afghanistan from 2016-2020 and found credible evidence for dozens of civilian murders, including the systemic, outright execution of civilian prisoners and planting of weapons on dead civilians killed in combat. This wasn't, "Oh, we made a terrible mistake in the heat of combat," stuff, it was, "We just killed everyone and then planted guns to cover our asses," stuff. Because of the nature of who they were prosecuting and for what, it's taken a long time to bring some of the cases forward. Not saying he's guilty, but this is not a dog and pony show. These guys absolutely ****ed up bad.

Afghanistan " Civilians" killed plenty of American and other soldiers in that time frame, often the " Civilians" were trained fighters wearing their Muslim attire and Not in uniform. Fighters hiding behind women and children while targeting our soldiers.

War is hell and those soldiers being charged were the ones there making split second decisions after they had been repeatedly attacked, wounded, and killed by the " Civilians". Easy to second guess from behind your computer screen.
GAC06
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Rapier108 said:

BusterAg said:

I still hate the public arrest thing.

Does Australia have a court marshall system? That is where things like this belong.





That's like claiming someone in the corps of cadets has more medals than someone in the military
ABATTBQ11
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-19/afghan-war-crimes-report-released-what-you-need-to-know/12899880

Quote:

The report detailed shocking revelations from an earlier 2016 inquiry, by Samantha Crompvoets, that SAS soldiers slit the throats of two 14-year-old boys they thought might be Taliban sympathisers. The deaths do not appear to be included in the 39 figure reached by the inquiry.

"They stopped, searched the boys and slit their throats," it said.

"The rest of the troop then had to 'clean up that mess', which involved bagging the bodies and throwing them into a nearby river."

There is one allegation from 2012 in the report that is completely redacted.

It happened in 2012 and is described as "possibly the most disgraceful episode in Australia's military history".

The report also detailed a kind of initiation junior officers were made to undertake.

"This shameful record includes alleged instances in which new patrol members were coerced to shoot a prisoner to achieve that soldiers' first kill in an appalling practice known as blooding," Chief of Defence Major General Angus Campbell said.

Justice Brereton described how "throwdowns" foreign weapons or equipment would then be placed with the body to create a cover story to "deflect scrutiny".
lcraggie
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GAC06 said:

Rapier108 said:

BusterAg said:

I still hate the public arrest thing.

Does Australia have a court marshall system? That is where things like this belong.





That's like claiming someone in the corps of cadets has more medals than someone in the military

There could be some prior service members of the Corps, but your point is well taken.

This is stupidity at the highest levels. Western Civilization is losing to the extreme wokeness of the few.
Rangers Lead the Way, NSDQ


ABATTBQ11
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Mas89 said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

The Australians investigated their special forces in Afghanistan from 2016-2020 and found credible evidence for dozens of civilian murders, including the systemic, outright execution of civilian prisoners and planting of weapons on dead civilians killed in combat. This wasn't, "Oh, we made a terrible mistake in the heat of combat," stuff, it was, "We just killed everyone and then planted guns to cover our asses," stuff. Because of the nature of who they were prosecuting and for what, it's taken a long time to bring some of the cases forward. Not saying he's guilty, but this is not a dog and pony show. These guys absolutely ****ed up bad.

Afghanistan " Civilians" killed plenty of American and other soldiers in that time frame, often the " Civilians" were trained fighters wearing their Muslim attire and Not in uniform. Fighters hiding behind women and children while targeting our soldiers.

War is hell and those soldiers being charged were the ones there making split second decisions after they had been repeatedly attacked, wounded, and killed by the " Civilians". Easy to second guess from behind your computer screen.



Executing prisoners is not a split second decision. None of these were. These were outright systemic murders and executions ordered, overseen, and committed by noncoms over the course of years. I'm sorry, but you don't get a pass for that regardless of anything else you did or experienced.
ABATTBQ11
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Urban Ag said:

I'm sure this multi-year investigation was completely unbiased, assumed nothing, and had no intended outcome whatsoever.


"I will ignore anything I don't want to hear."

Ok.
MouthBQ98
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AG
It's sad but it is possible that some individuals let the isolation and extreme conditions distort their judgment or sense of right and wrong and they might have committed atrocities against laws and standing orders. The trial will show what evidence exists. It does happen, and I believe they have similar benefit of the doubt and beyond reasonable doubt English criminal law standards.
BusterAg
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Well, that certainly puts things in a different light.

That woman might be the most decorated racist I have ever seen not wearing a hood.
BusterAg
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GAC06 said:

Rapier108 said:

BusterAg said:

I still hate the public arrest thing.

Does Australia have a court marshall system? That is where things like this belong.





That's like claiming someone in the Girl Scouts with lots of merit badges has more medals than someone in the military.

FIFY
Teslag
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ABATTBQ11 said:

Mas89 said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

The Australians investigated their special forces in Afghanistan from 2016-2020 and found credible evidence for dozens of civilian murders, including the systemic, outright execution of civilian prisoners and planting of weapons on dead civilians killed in combat. This wasn't, "Oh, we made a terrible mistake in the heat of combat," stuff, it was, "We just killed everyone and then planted guns to cover our asses," stuff. Because of the nature of who they were prosecuting and for what, it's taken a long time to bring some of the cases forward. Not saying he's guilty, but this is not a dog and pony show. These guys absolutely ****ed up bad.

Afghanistan " Civilians" killed plenty of American and other soldiers in that time frame, often the " Civilians" were trained fighters wearing their Muslim attire and Not in uniform. Fighters hiding behind women and children while targeting our soldiers.

War is hell and those soldiers being charged were the ones there making split second decisions after they had been repeatedly attacked, wounded, and killed by the " Civilians". Easy to second guess from behind your computer screen.



Executing prisoners is not a split second decision. None of these were. These were outright systemic murders and executions ordered, overseen, and committed by noncoms over the course of years. I'm sorry, but you don't get a pass for that regardless of anything else you did or experienced.


They may get a pass. A lot of these prisoners deserved to die. F'em.
BusterAg
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ABATTBQ11 said:

These were outright systemic murders and executions ordered, overseen, and committed by noncoms over the course of years. I'm sorry, but you don't get a pass for that regardless of anything else you did or experienced.

That would be no bueno, and likely deserves jailtime, if true. I don't know any of the facts.

But you have the DEI Grand Dragon Feminatzi prosecuting, so I have my doubts.

Again, I like the way that the US handles these situations, with court marshals. That would be a good venue.
samurai_science
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EFR said:

Maybe we should watch the trial play out and see what evidence is presented.

Dont care if he killed eveyone in that cancer of a country, that culture is not worth anything. They value sex with boys over rights for women.
13B
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EFR said:

I wouldn't read too much into the arrest. People with murder warrants don't generally get to choose their time date and place of surrender. My guess is the warrant was issued, cops knew where he was and went and got him. All we are seeing is what his attorneys and PR people are saying. Again, let's see what evidence is presented. It should be interesting and they may have some pretty solid evidence just based on how the civil trial turned out.

That is not at all what I read above, and I quote "The source said Roberts-Smith's legal team had repeatedly told the AFP and OSI he would present himself 'at a time and place of their choosing should any charges be brought'." "Their" being AFP and OSI not his legal team. He merely didn't want to unnecessarily turn himself in if he didn't have to and wanted to avoid having it done in front of his kids if he did need to turn himself in.
samurai_science
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ABATTBQ11 said:

Mas89 said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

The Australians investigated their special forces in Afghanistan from 2016-2020 and found credible evidence for dozens of civilian murders, including the systemic, outright execution of civilian prisoners and planting of weapons on dead civilians killed in combat. This wasn't, "Oh, we made a terrible mistake in the heat of combat," stuff, it was, "We just killed everyone and then planted guns to cover our asses," stuff. Because of the nature of who they were prosecuting and for what, it's taken a long time to bring some of the cases forward. Not saying he's guilty, but this is not a dog and pony show. These guys absolutely ****ed up bad.

Afghanistan " Civilians" killed plenty of American and other soldiers in that time frame, often the " Civilians" were trained fighters wearing their Muslim attire and Not in uniform. Fighters hiding behind women and children while targeting our soldiers.

War is hell and those soldiers being charged were the ones there making split second decisions after they had been repeatedly attacked, wounded, and killed by the " Civilians". Easy to second guess from behind your computer screen.



Executing prisoners is not a split second decision. None of these were. These were outright systemic murders and executions ordered, overseen, and committed by noncoms over the course of years. I'm sorry, but you don't get a pass for that regardless of anything else you did or experienced.

He gets a pass if I am on the jury.
EFR
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Well it looks like they chose a time and place, again, when you have a murder warrant you don't get to pick their time and place you are arrested. Suspect has warrant, cop knows where said suspect is, cop arrests suspect.
ABATTBQ11
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BusterAg said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

These were outright systemic murders and executions ordered, overseen, and committed by noncoms over the course of years. I'm sorry, but you don't get a pass for that regardless of anything else you did or experienced.

That would be no bueno, and likely deserves jailtime, if true. I don't know any of the facts.

But you have the DEI Grand Dragon Feminatzi prosecuting, so I have my doubts.

Again, I like the way that the US handles these situations, with court marshals. That would be a good venue.


These investigations predate her and have little to do with her. The Brereton report started in 2016 and concluded in 2020, long before she was appointed AFP commissioner, and the prosecutions are being handled by a separate office under a special prosecutor. His name first started coming up in 2018, and he sued for defamation. He lost, with a judge finding it more probable than not that he'd actually done it. EFR is right. This should be allowed to play out.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crr1jyk0qwjo

Quote:

At the time Nine newspapers first published reports of the allegations in 2018, Roberts-Smith was considered a national hero, having been awarded Australia's highest military honour for single-handedly overpowering Taliban fighters attacking his SAS platoon.

In a bid to clear his name, he launched a high-profile legal battle - which spanned seven years, cost millions of dollars and was dubbed by some as Australia's "trial of the century".

However a Federal Court judge found - on the balance of probabilities - that Roberts-Smith had taken part in at least four murders, a judgement upheld on appeal.

Anthony Besanko found that Roberts-Smith had twice ordered unarmed men be shot dead to "blood" rookie soldiers, and was involved in the deaths of a handcuffed farmer he kicked off a cliff and a captured Taliban fighter whose prosthetic leg was taken as a trophy and later used by troops as a drinking vessel.
BTKAG97
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EFR said:

Maybe we should watch the trial play out and see what evidence is presented.
It's Australia. The ink on the judgement papers is already dry.
Hogties
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I've seen this movie before. The ending is already written.
BusterAg
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ABATTBQ11 said:



Quote:


In a bid to clear his name, he launched a high-profile legal battle - which spanned seven years, cost millions of dollars and was dubbed by some as Australia's "trial of the century".

However a Federal Court judge found - on the balance of probabilities - that Roberts-Smith had taken part in at least four murders, a judgement upheld on appeal.




Man, hard to get a fair jury trial on the criminal activity then. Need beyond a shadow of a doubt in Australia for murder, I think?

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Anthony Besanko found that Roberts-Smith had twice ordered unarmed men be shot dead to "blood" rookie soldiers, and was involved in the deaths of a handcuffed farmer he kicked off a cliff and a captured Taliban fighter whose prosthetic leg was taken as a trophy and later used by troops as a drinking vessel.





Yeah, this isn't acceptable stuff if true.

Accept the prosthetic leg thing. I have no sympathy for a Taliban fighter. Having only one leg makes him less of a flight risk. And, drinking out of his fake leg is just hilarious.
SunrayAg
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Australia has completely sold its soul to the woke mind virus. It doesn't even resemble what it was 20 years ago.

Trump should declare this guy a US citizen, and send a seal team to rescue him.
pagerman @ work
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Mas89 said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

The Australians investigated their special forces in Afghanistan from 2016-2020 and found credible evidence for dozens of civilian murders, including the systemic, outright execution of civilian prisoners and planting of weapons on dead civilians killed in combat. This wasn't, "Oh, we made a terrible mistake in the heat of combat," stuff, it was, "We just killed everyone and then planted guns to cover our asses," stuff. Because of the nature of who they were prosecuting and for what, it's taken a long time to bring some of the cases forward. Not saying he's guilty, but this is not a dog and pony show. These guys absolutely ****ed up bad.

Afghanistan " Civilians" killed plenty of American and other soldiers in that time frame, often the " Civilians" were trained fighters wearing their Muslim attire and Not in uniform. Fighters hiding behind women and children while targeting our soldiers.

War is hell and those soldiers being charged were the ones there making split second decisions after they had been repeatedly attacked, wounded, and killed by the " Civilians". Easy to second guess from behind your computer screen.


So you've read the report?
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. It's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
oldord
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I sure hope you're talking in generalities because it sounds like you're saying you were there and you saw it happen. Sorry, but you don't know **** just like most of the rest of us. And in this world that we live in, the left would gladly murder everyone on the right. This is just a tool for them to continue their march towards total power by subduing the rest of us.
outofstateaggie
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Hogties said:



I've seen this movie before. The ending is already written.


Scapegoats of the Empire.
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