primary/secondary education earns an "F"

7,192 Views | 88 Replies | Last: 15 days ago by bonfarr
akm91
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Not just the quality of teachers but the educational infrastructure overall. My wife had an AP tell her that giving out consequences don't deter bad behavior.

Public school teachers now end up spending more time dealing with behavior issues in the classrooms than actual teaching.
Average Joe
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Schools have failed because most, not all, have failed at home. There is no discipline and there are no consequences for anything.

We can complain about teaching liberal social talking points, but that's minor. We have a society of **** parents. It's easier to shove a screen in their face to make them happy then have them follow structure at home.
bonfarr
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This is interesting. Seems clicking a mouse or typing on a tablet doesn't have the same effect on the brain that manually writing does.

Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be taken at face value.
aggiehawg
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More:
Quote:

The experiment was simple. She recruited 36 university students and put each one in a cap with 256 sensors pressed against their scalp to record brain activity. Words flashed on a screen one at a time.

Sometimes the students wrote the word by hand on a touchscreen using a digital pen, and sometimes they typed the same word on a keyboard. Every neural response was recorded for the full five seconds the word stayed on screen.

Then her team looked at the part of the data most researchers had ignored for years, which is how different parts of the brain were communicating with each other during the task.

When the students wrote by hand, the brain lit up everywhere at once.

The regions responsible for memory, sensory integration, and the encoding of new information were all firing together in a coordinated pattern that spread across the entire cortex. The whole network was awake and connected.

When the same students typed the same word, that pattern collapsed almost completely.

Most of the brain went quiet, and the connections between regions that had been alive seconds earlier were nowhere to be found on the EEG.

Same word, same brain, same person, and two completely different neurological events.

The reason turned out to be something nobody had really paid attention to before her work. Writing by hand is not one motion but a sequence of thousands of tiny micro-movements coordinated with your eyes in real time, where each letter is a different shape that requires the brain to solve a slightly different spatial problem.

Your fingers, wrist, vision, and the parts of your brain that track position in space are all working together to produce one letter, then the next, then the next.

Typing throws all of that away. Every key on a keyboard requires the exact same finger motion regardless of which letter you are pressing, which means the brain has almost nothing to integrate and almost no problem to solve.

Van der Meer said it plainly in her interviews.

Pressing the same key with the same finger over and over does not stimulate the brain in any meaningful way, and she pointed out something that should scare every parent who handed their kid an iPad.

Children who learn to read and write on tablets often cannot tell letters like b and d apart, because they have never physically felt with their bodies what it takes to actually produce those letters on a page.

That makes complete sense to me. Different neural pathways. Thanks for posting that.
Lathspell
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Public school in the US is a joke and hinders our ability to be competitive on the world stage. I graduated back in 2005 from Lewisville ISD. I graduated somewhere in the top 20% and I remember studying for one test, my entire high school career. It in NO WAY prepared me for college. It was just an exercise in sitting in a classroom for 12 years to get a piece of paper saying I sat there for 12 years. I wouldn't do homework and I wouldn't study for tests.

I got to A&M and was crushed, that first semester, because I had never learned good study habits.

I have always had a high reading level, but that had nothing to do with public school and everything to do with me reading for fun. Honestly, I only remember one teacher, throughout all 12 grades, who genuinely made an impression on me due to her ability to teach sentence structure, syntax, and grammar. That was my 12th grade English teacher. Funny enough, she was also very blatantly extremely conservative.
deddog
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BigRobSA said:

Dropping phonics as a primer
"new math"
teaching feelz over science
"smart" devices

the list is growing

The democrat takeover of schools.
I can only speak of Austin ISD - after Trump won the first time, the main goal of school was to trot out mindless democrat voting drones, instead of education.

This has direct impact on English for one. I've posted many times on here, about how all of the "classics" were replaced by minority author books. Pretty much every reading comprehension essay was speeches by Bernie, Biden, Obama and even Greta Thunberg. With loaded questions like "why is the speech effective"
Absolutely diabolical.
It's working.
Austin has traditionally voted about 70-30 Democrat. Austin ISD had a mock vote during the last election cycle where it was 90-10.
Flying Crowbar
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We had to read 'A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man' by James Joyce. What a beating that book is. Sheesh.
HTownAg98
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deddog said:

BigRobSA said:

Dropping phonics as a primer
"new math"
teaching feelz over science
"smart" devices

the list is growing

The democrat takeover of schools.
I can only speak of Austin ISD - after Trump won the first time, the main goal of school was to trot out mindless democrat voting drones, instead of education.

This has direct impact on English for one. I've posted many times on here, about how all of the "classics" were replaced by minority author books. Pretty much every reading comprehension essay was speeches by Bernie, Biden, Obama and even Greta Thunberg. With loaded questions like "why is the speech effective"
Absolutely diabolical.
It's working.
Austin has traditionally voted about 70-30 Democrat. Austin ISD had a mock vote during the last election cycle where it was 90-10.


If you've ever taken the AP Language Arts test, the rhetorical analysis essay question literally is "why is the speech effective?"

I could point to countless reasons why schools are terrible, but it's just a retread of the same thread that comes up every 3-4 months.
Windy City Ag
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Quote:

Public school in the US is a joke and hinders our ability to be competitive on the world stage. I graduated back in 2005 from Lewisville ISD. I graduated somewhere in the top 20% and I remember studying for one test, my entire high school career. It in NO WAY prepared me for college. It was just an exercise in sitting in a classroom for 12 years to get a piece of paper saying I sat there for 12 years. I wouldn't do homework and I wouldn't study for tests.

I got to A&M and was crushed, that first semester, because I had never learned good study habits.


We compound it through the Top x% rule for Texas colleges, which punishes kids at rigorous private and public schools in favor of kids who have been idling at grade inflation prone and underfunded schools.

It is driving so many talented kids out of state for school in the name of something . . .happy rural state legislators I guess.

https://www.texaspolicy.com/texas-top-10-rule-a-well-intentioned-distortion-of-merit/

aggiehawg
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Can HS grads still take tests to place out of freshman classes such as English Comp and English Lit? I recall not having to take those required courses because I placed out. (One reason why I graduated from A&M at 20 years old. Also placed out of math and algebra required courses.)
aggie93
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aggiehawg said:

Can HS grads still take tests to place out of freshman classes such as English Comp and English Lit? I recall not having to take those required courses because I placed out. (One reason why I graduated from A&M at 20 years old. Also placed out of math and algebra required courses.)

Yes, AP and Dual Credit with CC are very common now instead of the CLEP tests we took back in the day. My son started school with almost 70 hours and is an academic Senior after his first year, my older son graduated in 3 years. That said typical nowadays is 20ish hours of college credit mainly around the basics (English, Poli Sci, History, etc and sometimes Math and Science). I remember when I had 7 hours of college credit starting off I had the most out of my 23 Corps buddies, very few had any college credit.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggie93
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akm91 said:

Not just the quality of teachers but the educational infrastructure overall. My wife had an AP tell her that giving out consequences don't deter bad behavior.

Public school teachers now end up spending more time dealing with behavior issues in the classrooms than actual teaching.

Long gone are the days when AP's had a selection of different paddles to beat your ass with like when I was a kid.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggiehawg
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aggie93 said:

aggiehawg said:

Can HS grads still take tests to place out of freshman classes such as English Comp and English Lit? I recall not having to take those required courses because I placed out. (One reason why I graduated from A&M at 20 years old. Also placed out of math and algebra required courses.)

Yes, AP and Dual Credit with CC are very common now instead of the CLEP tests we took back in the day. My son started school with almost 70 hours and is an academic Senior after his first year, my older son graduated in 3 years. That said typical nowadays is 20ish hours of college credit mainly around the basics (English, Poli Sci, History, etc and sometimes Math and Science). I remember when I had 7 hours of college credit starting off I had the most out of my 23 Corps buddies, very few had any college credit.

I started HS up north, which was a 4 year high school there. Was in advance programs that offered an option of graduating HS early or staying for the fourth year and taking college level courses to save a year's tuition at participating Ivy League schools. Not in inconsiderable savings even back then especially with out-of-state tuition.

I always wanted to come back to Texas (A&M) for school so Dad checked their policies on whether they would accept those credits if I stayed for that fourth year. Recollection was that I could place out but would still have to take the CLEP tests. I thought that was kind of funny. Harvard and Yale would give me credit but A&M wouldn't.

Dad was transferred back to Texas about 7 months later and because of my AP courses I just ended up going from 9th to 11th grade. I skipped 10th grade. Then I essentially skipped my freshman year at A&M due to a combination of placement tests and taking a couple of summer school classes at the local junior college, just to get required classes out of the way.
OldArmy71
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Quote:

If you've ever taken the AP Language Arts test, the rhetorical analysis essay question literally is "why is the speech effective?"



But he's right. It's not the question, it's that they ask the students to answer the question by analyzing texts that are left-leaning or are by Democrat politicians.

Therefore, I added speeches or articles by Reagan and MacArthur (Duty, Honor, Country) and Victor David Hanson, for instance.

91AggieLawyer
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Bull Meachem said:

aggiehawg said:

Quote:

Blame those crazy Founding Fathers for that.

Not completely accurate. What we think of as public education today is a top down structure funded in large part by the federal government.

That was not one of the core functions the Founders envisioned for the federal part of the republic. Left that to the states.

I remember watching the film (remember those when your teacher would wheel in that giant projector and pull down all the blinds? MOVIE DAY!) back in the 60s when there was quite a debate about whether the federal government should even be involved with public schools (not universities) at all.

Less than 20% of funding for Texas public schools come from the federal government. Most of that includes funding to Title 1 schools, special education, and the school nutrition program.


It isn't about FUNDING; it is about REGULATION.

So an update on my post from earlier. Ever heard of Senior Skip day? Apparently, at least one HS in the district my wife teaches has sanctioned a Senior Skip half-month. Well, a full week, another day and two half-days. The kid she sees at this HS told her that he came in this past Monday AM (school starts at 8:45) around 8:15-20, saw a huge line near the gym, asked what was going on and found out that all they needed to do was check in and then leave. Some who had work outstanding or not turned in had to stay and complete it but others were free to go! Hell, what a deal! All of this week, plus next Tuesday (mon = holiday), then half days on W/T.

In the 3 years prior to when I graduated, the seniors took semester exams on the Friday before Memorial Day (last week of school -- ALWAYS back then), then did not have class the last 4 days of school (T-F on that MD week). They had graduation "practice" on like a Wednesday late morning or early afternoon, but it wasn't mandatory. The rest of the time was their's. My senior year, they changed it. We had to go to school on Mem. Day, take exams M/T, Wed was off and the Baccalaureate service (optional), then graduation on Thursday. Not horrific but a bit of a screw job compared to previous years.

But what they're doing now is simply counting kids for the average daily attendance -- fraud in my opinion because the kids aren't there -- and then telling them to get lost. Final grades were in last Friday. If they were to stay, it is 100% babysitting at this point.
Jeeper79
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The decline isn't due to teacher salaries. The decline isn't due to the department of education.

It's actually a really easy problem to identify, but with a very difficult resolution. Students and parents aren't prioritizing education. That's it. That's the whole thing. Somewhere along the way, people got it in their head that school doesn't matter.

Short of an actual learning disability, anyone that tries is going to do fine in school. They may not be a straight A student, but even average kids can get As and Bs if they just try.

Schools aren't helping by refusing to fail kids, but that's a secondary problem that still doesn't solve the first.
91AggieLawyer
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Quote:

I just ended up going from 9th to 11th grade. I skipped 10th grade.


Did a lot of skipping in 10th grade, but sadly, didn't get any credit for it. Quite the opposite, actually.
Retired Principal
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Over_ed said:

https://time.com/article/2026/05/16/student-test-scores-reading-math-us/

Stanford has released new reading/writing scores for school districts across the US and they are abysmal - unprecedented-ly bad.

Quick historical review of student reading/writing performance:
1970 - 90 Slow steady improvement
1990 - 05 Sharp improvement - particularly in minority/low income
2005 - 15 Plateau
2015 - 25 Precipitous decline

Between 2015 and 2025 students lost an average of between .5 year and 1.4 full years of learning. So - the equivalent of previous generation leaving school around the end of their Junior year.

The elephants in the room -
dismantling of no child left behind with it's required testing
increased children's screen time
increased chronic absenteeism
COVID closures

The good news - the past couple of years have seen slight increases, particularly in states with early literacy reforms : Maryland, Louisiana, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Mississippi, Montana, and the District of Columbia.

Same comment I have made in at least 6 OPs over the past 2 years- parents need to get their kids unhooked from their screens. Please.


Agree. Bigger problem is parents needing to get off their screens. Talk to your kid(s), man!
bonfarr
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This 60 minute clip has gone viral. I am sharing with my kids who will be in college in a few years

Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be taken at face value.
 
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