Philip J Fry said:

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I would consider him a casualty just as I would anyone who was injured on the battlefield and died in a hospital later.

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This.

My father died because of issues that were never taken care of while he was in the military, in medicine, for 23 yrs. I count him in, along with people such as your friend, with the men and women who died while in combat, etc.

I started talking about this with my wife last night.

I set out with goal of watching Band of Brothers again over the weekend. It got derailed when the power was out basically all of Saturday. I say this because traditionally I have looked at Memorial Day as largely a WWI &WWII day, and to a lesser extent a Vietnam day, holiday,. I have not at really thought about it all for the Gulf War, but some for the post-9/11 wars.

i think part of the reason I have viewed it that way is we didn't actually lose a ton of people in Iraq/Afghanistan only about 7,000 fatalities over two decades. But we have lost 30,000 veterans of those same wars to suicide.

That's a national travesty. But I think it is a function of a few things:

(1) We sent soldiers on 3, 4, 5 tours of duty, but in WWII soldiers served one, and largely the same for Vietnam.
(2). We then sent them home with injuries that would have killed them in any prior war missing limbs, shattered spines, traumatic brain injuries that literally rewire how you think and feel.
(3) Then we handed them a VA appointment three months out and called it a day.

100% honor those who died by suicide from PTSD, I consider it the same as dying from any other injury on the battlefield

One nit-picky comment.. For some in WWII, "one tour" was from 1941/42--until the Japanese surrender in 1945.

You're 100% correct that we bring kids home with injuries that would have been treated with morphine until they died on the battlefield or aid station decades prior.

This, and I say this with ZERO disrespect. I think folks just handled anguish differently in 1950. Kids that grew up without air conditioning and the hardships of the depression... But they came home to ticker tape parades, a booming economy, and the shared experience of their entire generation. The kids from the GWoT rolled home over 20 years to a country that honestly, after about 2006, kinda forgot they were gone. The weren't spit on like their Vietnam Brothers in Arms, they weren't jeered, they weren't protested... They were forgotten. They were ignored. They got a vanity license plate and a camo vest if they went to work at Lowe's.

1971-1979 Vet here. Of course he is to be honored. PTSD is a real injury and comes in many forms. I knew/know many WW II/Korean/ and Nam vets that suffered, many in silence. While there were no parades most Viet Nam era vets were shown respect.

I didn't serve, but I think it is appropriate to remember your friend today. I had a cousin that did two tours and ended his life as you describe. He may not have died on foreign soil, but the trauma that eventually took his life occurred there.

There is never a wrong day to remember your friend. My condolences.

BusterAg said:

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So, I have a friend who took his own life after being retired by the military after a major injury. Significant PTSD and addiction issues.

I obviously think about him on this day every year.

Is this kinda guy generally included in the concept of the holiday? Meaningful answer would be appreciated. If you are a veteran, if you would include that in your response, that would also be appreciated.

My feelings are not going to be hurt regardless, I am just honestly ignorant on the etiquette here.

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Your friend is absolutely one of the people being honored and remembered by Memorial Day, July 4th, Veterans Day, and by all other such ceremonies, monuments, and our thanks and prayers.

Man. Tough question and even a more difficult answer. I actually thought about this for a while because I know both scenarios.

I personally view Memorial Day as for those who laid down their life in the line of duty. I'm named after one(former BQ and Navy Pilot) and my son is named after one(former Tech grad and Marine Pilot).

I watched fellow Marines die in Iraq and I went to two different funerals from Marines in my company who ended up killing themselves. It's hard for me to put the latter in the same category as the former never had the opportunity to come home and live a full life.

On the other hand, the two who killed themselves never really had a life when they came home. Part was PTSD and the other was a tough home life. Marriages were a wreck even before we went to war etc. lots of things contributed to the suicide and I can't pin it directly onto PTSD even though both had it and complained of it. One was a veteran of the Invasion, Fallujah and Ramadi and the VA denied him service connected PTSD. Crazy.

In the end I nor anyone else have a say on how you can and should remember your friend. If you feel he should be remembered on Memorial Day then that's good enough for this old Jarhead.

People are going to look back at how we treated mental health like we look at people that said playing with mercury was just fine.

My first cousin James Barrett, Ferris Texas, served two tours in Iraq in the United States Army committed suicide on August 1 of 2016 of PTSD. He is not a combat veteran casualty and his family are not a gold star family.

This thread and these messages show the heart and soul of F16.

This is a tough one.

At Fort Stewart, a tree was planted for every 3ID Soldier killed during GWOT. We had just returned from Iraq when a ceremony was held, planting a new tree for a Soldier who had died. There were probably 300+ Soldiers present at the ceremony. Roughly 10 minutes into the ceremony, the speaker mentioned the Soldier who was being remembered had taken his own life. The reaction amongst the Soldiers was, to be diplomatic, less than positive.

While I don't personally have an issue with remembering those whose suffering caused them to make such an unthinkable decision, I understand those, especially the ones who lost friends to combat, who are not comfortable grouping the two together.

PanzerAggie06 said:

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This is a tough one.

At Fort Stewart, a tree was planted for every 3ID Soldier killed during GWOT. We had just returned from Iraq when a ceremony was held, planting a new tree for a Soldier who had died. There were probably 300+ Soldiers present at the ceremony. Roughly 10 minutes into the ceremony, the speaker mentioned the Soldier who was being remembered had taken his own life. The reaction amongst the Soldiers was, to be diplomatic, less than positive.

While I don't personally have an issue with remembering those whose suffering caused them to make such an unthinkable decision, I understand those, especially the ones who lost friends to combat, who are not comfortable grouping the two together.

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Thank you for sharing. I was not aware our Veterans felt that way. And thank you for your service.

I don't want to take away anything from losing a son or daughter in any matter. I am a gold star father. I also have another son, daughter and son in law serving at this time. I would do anything if it were possible to bring my son back. I and my family continue to grieve the loss and have become active in organizations that support other gold star families and service to active military and veterans.
There are basically two categories of gold stars, one for combat and one for death outside of combat but while actively serving. Memorial Day is set aside to honor them.
The federal regulations actually define the types of gold star, as there are different pins and benefits.
The suicide issue is real and a big concern, but from my perspective Memorial Day is not for them and maybe Veterans Day is more appropriate.

Capt Tyler Voss, USAF Kia 5/3/17 Shell 77

Kenneth_2003 said:

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Non-veteran here.
Memorial Day is about pausing to recall those that laid their life upon the altar of freedom in service of the US, and on behalf of the US for other nations and people around the world.

Just because the bullets aren't flying and the rockets aren't exploding, doesn't mean you cannot be a casualty of some conflict elsewhere in the world. Sleeping in your own bed at might doesn't always mean you've made it back home.

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Bingo. He's still worthy of honoring. He essentially gave his life on the battlefield it just took a while for him to pass.
Our veterans need more help than they're currently getting.

BigRobSA said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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I would consider him a casualty just as I would anyone who was injured on the battlefield and died in a hospital later.

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This.

My father died because of issues that were never taken care of while he was in the military, in medicine, for 23 yrs. I count him in, along with people such as your friend, with the men and women who died while in combat, etc.

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My father told me that the only treatment he ever received, after the hell of WWII, was a donut and a smile from a pretty girl. He relied on a strong faith and a stronger family. Not everyone was a lucky as him. T&P for our veterans.

Thank you.

This is very helpful. Thank you.

Thank you. Helpful.

Yes, any veteran who dies even years later as a result of their physical or mental wounds

would be considered a casualty of the war

My father died 44 years after returning from Vietnam due to what Agent Orange did to his body. That was 40 years of suffering he had to go through, because the effects from Agent Orange started just a few short years (4-6) after he returned.

So yes, I honor him at Memorial Day because his death was directly caused by Agent Orange, and even worse, it was a slow, agonizing death (decades) at that.

As a veteran, I would consider Memorial Day a day for him because thousands of veterans are suffering from PTSD.