When in human history has there not been a bifurcated economy?

Haleyscomet50 said:

---

Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

---

Eh if it keeps going up I don't have to feed as much into my vanguard taxable retirement account every month, so I can use that for more expensive gas. Plus some easy changes in spending habits, which apparently is impossible for most people somehow, and once things stabilize it'l basically be like a bonus. But I have a bad habit of being able to live within my means, even if it fluctuates here and there.

Middle class here, with this market pushing me into upper middle class, probably upper class in the next 5-10 years. Pay towards savings before it even gets to my checking account every month for the last 15 years and you can be sitting pretty after a little discipline and sacrifice. I don't mind paying more for gas right now if I can retire earlier and have a lot more money to use after I stop working.

A short amount of tightening in exchange for decades of comfort down the line sooner than otherwise is actually a blessing.

---

Selling yourself short man. The real middle class are paying electric bills or filling gas tanks with credit cards. They are eating hot dogs twice a week because they don't get food stamps and ground beef keeps going up. They have no money to put in any saving account. The prices of the homes they owned have sky rocketed but it doesn't matter because if you sale you cant afford the house note on the next one.

Getting killed on health insurance because in the end someone has to pay the bill for the illegals getting health care. Loosing on car insurance because someone has to pay for all the illegals that drive a 1000 car with no insurance. 20,000 cars a year stolen in Harris County a year to be chopped or sent south. Someone has to pay for it. Not to even mentioned the overwhelming groups of people who get lawyers for fenders benders the 100k payouts add up quickly.

Middle class is still getting hurt by the illegals school taxes food stamps Healthcare insurance that's why Trump was elected everyone wanted the mass deportations looks like we are going a different route. The middle class needed some breathing room some extra to catch up we thought Trump would give us that it hasn't happened.
Stock market matters very little to the middle class at this point.

---

I'm almost 69 years old. From vast experience there are basically two mindsets. Static and dynamic. Most successful people in business have a dynamic mind. They can see how things are unfolding, foresee possible roadblocks and new challenges. They instantly go into "solution" mode. They adapt and overcome. That's Trump/Bessent.
The static mind sees problems and roadblocks and are dumbfounded, at best. They'll even point to what I wrote above and say, "Then why has it not happened!?!?" They simply don't have the experience and foresight to see how certain actions being taken will produce the desired result.

3rd Coast said:

---

Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

---

Eh if it keeps going up I don't have to feed as much into my vanguard taxable retirement account every month, so I can use that for more expensive gas. Plus some easy changes in spending habits, which apparently is impossible for most people somehow, and once things stabilize it'l basically be like a bonus. But I have a bad habit of being able to live within my means, even if it fluctuates here and there.

Middle class here, with this market pushing me into upper middle class, probably upper class in the next 5-10 years. Pay towards savings before it even gets to my checking account every month for the last 15 years and you can be sitting pretty after a little discipline and sacrifice. I don't mind paying more for gas right now if I can retire earlier and have a lot more money to use after I stop working.

A short amount of tightening in exchange for decades of comfort down the line sooner than otherwise is actually a blessing.

---

Well aren't you a model of how things should be done. A great majority of people or living paycheck to paycheck and /or up to their eyeballs in debt. The stock market going up has zero impact on those people.

---

Not super relevant to this thread, but the paycheck to paycheck stats are WILDLY misleading. There are many households with hundreds of thousands/millions in net worth who are "living paycheck to paycheck".

Texas12&0 said:

---

Haleyscomet50 said:

---

Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

---

Eh if it keeps going up I don't have to feed as much into my vanguard taxable retirement account every month, so I can use that for more expensive gas. Plus some easy changes in spending habits, which apparently is impossible for most people somehow, and once things stabilize it'l basically be like a bonus. But I have a bad habit of being able to live within my means, even if it fluctuates here and there.

Middle class here, with this market pushing me into upper middle class, probably upper class in the next 5-10 years. Pay towards savings before it even gets to my checking account every month for the last 15 years and you can be sitting pretty after a little discipline and sacrifice. I don't mind paying more for gas right now if I can retire earlier and have a lot more money to use after I stop working.

A short amount of tightening in exchange for decades of comfort down the line sooner than otherwise is actually a blessing.

---

Selling yourself short man. The real middle class are paying electric bills or filling gas tanks with credit cards. They are eating hot dogs twice a week because they don't get food stamps and ground beef keeps going up. They have no money to put in any saving account. The prices of the homes they owned have sky rocketed but it doesn't matter because if you sale you cant afford the house note on the next one.

Getting killed on health insurance because in the end someone has to pay the bill for the illegals getting health care. Loosing on car insurance because someone has to pay for all the illegals that drive a 1000 car with no insurance. 20,000 cars a year stolen in Harris County a year to be chopped or sent south. Someone has to pay for it. Not to even mentioned the overwhelming groups of people who get lawyers for fenders benders the 100k payouts add up quickly.

Middle class is still getting hurt by the illegals school taxes food stamps Healthcare insurance that's why Trump was elected everyone wanted the mass deportations looks like we are going a different route. The middle class needed some breathing room some extra to catch up we thought Trump would give us that it hasn't happened.
Stock market matters very little to the middle class at this point.

---

I'm almost 69 years old. From vast experience there are basically two mindsets. Static and dynamic. Most successful people in business have a dynamic mind. They can see how things are unfolding, foresee possible roadblocks and new challenges. They instantly go into "solution" mode. They adapt and overcome. That's Trump/Bessent.
The static mind sees problems and roadblocks and are dumbfounded, at best. They'll even point to what I wrote above and say, "Then why has it not happened!?!?" They simply don't have the experience and foresight to see how certain actions being taken will produce the desired result.

---

The senior VP OF EXXON stated Thursday that the global price of crude could reach $160 a barrel in a count of weeks. What will that do to the economy and stock market? It won't be pretty.

TexasAggie73 said:

---

The senior VP OF EXXON stated Thursday that the global price of crude could reach $160 a barrel in a count of weeks. What will that do to the economy and stock market? It won't be pretty.

---

A month ago it was at $105. Now at $88. But you do you.

Infection_Ag11 said:

---

3rd Coast said:

---

Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

---

Eh if it keeps going up I don't have to feed as much into my vanguard taxable retirement account every month, so I can use that for more expensive gas. Plus some easy changes in spending habits, which apparently is impossible for most people somehow, and once things stabilize it'l basically be like a bonus. But I have a bad habit of being able to live within my means, even if it fluctuates here and there.

Middle class here, with this market pushing me into upper middle class, probably upper class in the next 5-10 years. Pay towards savings before it even gets to my checking account every month for the last 15 years and you can be sitting pretty after a little discipline and sacrifice. I don't mind paying more for gas right now if I can retire earlier and have a lot more money to use after I stop working.

A short amount of tightening in exchange for decades of comfort down the line sooner than otherwise is actually a blessing.

---

Well aren't you a model of how things should be done. A great majority of people or living paycheck to paycheck and /or up to their eyeballs in debt. The stock market going up has zero impact on those people.

---

Not super relevant to this thread, but the paycheck to paycheck stats are WILDLY misleading. There are many households with hundreds of thousands/millions in net worth who are "living paycheck to paycheck".

---

Exactly. I am traveling in my trailer a lot right now for fun, and I'm living paycheck to paycheck. Of course, since im hardly working nowadays, I have very little to work with in my account and won't take money from savings. So...gotta simplify. It's really actually pretty easy. Cut out eating expensive food, cook more at home, more sandwiches for lunch, hardly ever get coffee at coffee shops, etc. Most goes to gas though, so not much is left.

I did an experiment on myself years ago when I had my own business. I paid myself minimum wage in SF to see if I could live within that number. It sucked, but wasnt actually terribly difficult since I have pretty much lived like a college student, or how it used to be, my entire adult life so my lifestyle habits were easy to accommodate changes in income. And when the income goes up, either feed more into savings or spend it all if you want. That all worked except for dating. I found that dating modern women is ridiculously expensive, which burned through my remaining monthly reserves, and not at all worth it. I would say thats not relevant to this topic, but for a lot of guys it actually is. Sucks to be single these days...

That said, I know I get a lot of snark about how it's so easy for some to do, blah blah blah. But the truth is, it's not really that difficult to make sacrifices when you have to, especially if you force yourself to sacrifice when you DON'T have to. Call me a liar, full of ****, rich, etc etc. That's fine. But yes, I actually see myself as a "model of how things should be done." At least financially, not at all in my personal life, which I admit is not something to brag about. Because frankly, if I can do it, coming from poverty to lower class, and built up from there...keeping frugal habits even when you don't have to is key to weathering storms and coming out golden on the other side. That includes debt, which is in your example. That's where personal accountability comes in, and making good decisions along the way. But I won't get into that, since apparently that's never going the other direction for a majority of the population. Not in this country anyway. Debt can be very good and powerful, if done right, but if you're stupid about it you end up using it as an excuse for failure and struggles.

Texas12&0 said:

---

Haleyscomet50 said:

---

Kaiser von Wilhelm said:

---

Eh if it keeps going up I don't have to feed as much into my vanguard taxable retirement account every month, so I can use that for more expensive gas. Plus some easy changes in spending habits, which apparently is impossible for most people somehow, and once things stabilize it'l basically be like a bonus. But I have a bad habit of being able to live within my means, even if it fluctuates here and there.

Middle class here, with this market pushing me into upper middle class, probably upper class in the next 5-10 years. Pay towards savings before it even gets to my checking account every month for the last 15 years and you can be sitting pretty after a little discipline and sacrifice. I don't mind paying more for gas right now if I can retire earlier and have a lot more money to use after I stop working.

A short amount of tightening in exchange for decades of comfort down the line sooner than otherwise is actually a blessing.

---

Selling yourself short man. The real middle class are paying electric bills or filling gas tanks with credit cards. They are eating hot dogs twice a week because they don't get food stamps and ground beef keeps going up. They have no money to put in any saving account. The prices of the homes they owned have sky rocketed but it doesn't matter because if you sale you cant afford the house note on the next one.

Getting killed on health insurance because in the end someone has to pay the bill for the illegals getting health care. Loosing on car insurance because someone has to pay for all the illegals that drive a 1000 car with no insurance. 20,000 cars a year stolen in Harris County a year to be chopped or sent south. Someone has to pay for it. Not to even mentioned the overwhelming groups of people who get lawyers for fenders benders the 100k payouts add up quickly.

Middle class is still getting hurt by the illegals school taxes food stamps Healthcare insurance that's why Trump was elected everyone wanted the mass deportations looks like we are going a different route. The middle class needed some breathing room some extra to catch up we thought Trump would give us that it hasn't happened.
Stock market matters very little to the middle class at this point.

---

I'm almost 69 years old. From vast experience there are basically two mindsets. Static and dynamic. Most successful people in business have a dynamic mind. They can see how things are unfolding, foresee possible roadblocks and new challenges. They instantly go into "solution" mode. They adapt and overcome. That's Trump/Bessent.
The static mind sees problems and roadblocks and are dumbfounded, at best. They'll even point to what I wrote above and say, "Then why has it not happened!?!?" They simply don't have the experience and foresight to see how certain actions being taken will produce the desired result.

---

Exactly. I will never claim that true hardship and struggles don't happen. Just that a lot of those instances are self-inflicted and could have easily been avoided if so chosen. But we'd rather have new iPhones every year (it aggravated me when employees would do that, hence why they're never NOT going to live paycheck to paycheck or asking for advances), leasing and buying new cars every 2 years, living in luxury housing they can't afford, etc etc. That can arguably work when things are static. But not when there are changes that push past the limit they've created for themselves. For those, as cold as it sounds, I don't have much in the way of pity. I absolutely feel for those who work their asses off and live frugally and are responsible, who are struggling, though. They do everything right and still can't keep up, and are who I actually care about. I don't know the percentage that make up that subset, but they're the ones who deserve the help, not the others in my example. I don't mind being an ******* about it.

Being responsible is difficult. Being careless with your money is easy. You can be successful either direction during good times, but it's difficult during lean times for the latter. Especially since changing to become frugal is actually quite difficult to do when you've spent every dime you have and live off credit you're entire adult life instead of holding off on the latest and greatest to keep up with the joneses.

Yes, im a dick. Tell me all about it. Everyone else does anyway. Especially since all it took to win was hard work, living on next to nothing the first 5-10 years after school, paid off my student debt within 5 years, took out 2 million in debt to take a chance on myself when I was 28, keeping cars for over 10 years, only buying a house when I was financially stable, and saving every penny I could when it could have been spent on garbage I didn't need.

Silent For Too Long said:

---

When in human history has there not been a bifurcated economy?

---

That's what I'm saying.

"The poor will always be with you."

Oh?