Pretty well reasoned thought here. I personally wouldn't make judgements on someone's faith, as that is not my business. However I will say there are many examples of trials people went through in the Bible.

Job & Jesus come to mind

I am not trying to give his ridiculous statement an ounce of credit, but I think he is maybe just confused. I think he interpreted someone on deaths door having zero appetite for food and not wanting any water as them being denied. When my grandmother passed recently she was mentally intact until the end, but the 5-6 days she didn't want any food, and the last couple of days refused water. That was her choice, nobody was denying her.

3rd Coast said:

---

STL_aTm said:

---

I deal with patients who are on hospice services every single day for the last 15 years and have not once seen a patient request water/food and be denied.

edit: i now see someone else has already called you out on your ridiculous statement.

---

Thank you! I'm very passionate about Hospice and think it is a very good service. Hospice nurses are a special bread of people and the constant barrage of insults / misinformation I see on here is infuriating.

---

Hospices are like every other industry. There are good ones and bad ones. Seen both in my very brief time as an EMT. Either way, pretty depressing places. The bad ones with bad employees were just more so and elevate it horribly depressing.

I hate to hear this.

Madagascar said:

---

flown-the-coop said:

---

Maybe quit calling it euthanasia and call it what it really is…



MERCY.

---

FIFY

---

Yea, that's not how it works.

I think its evil to make someone suffer more than they have to because of legal liabilities, not morality, dictate how this is treated in America.

3rd Coast said:

---

Please quote the location of this in scripture.

---

God answering prayers? Man, they have removed a lot from the Bible these days.

That's not what I was referring to and you know it. You referenced a parable, I'm wanting you to post where it is located in the bible. Don't be dense.

When my father finally passed he had to spend the last 24 hours in a hospice care facility while I was still in Cedar Rapids Iowa. It was a very nice place and they were angels to him. Speaking of angels, I needed to go to the restroom and instead of using the one in the room where my sisters were also, I went to the one in the lobby. After I returned, my sisters asked me if I had been standing there in the doorway... to which I answered "No. I just got back.". They both had seen a giant shadow in the doorway and thought it was me standing there. That intrigued me as it wasn't me so I went to the doorway and stood in it to see if that was the approximate size and they were just mistaken. I'm a big, very big, person and their recollection showed to be much larger than myself as the doorway was an 8-foot door as opposed to the normal 6 ft 8 door. We all believe that it was an angel that had come to see him off. Shortly after this he did pass.

3rd Coast said:

---

That's not what I was referring to and you know it. You referenced a parable, I'm wanting you to post where it is located in the bible. Don't be dense.

---

A parable about helicopters being in the Bible? And I am being dense?

Now if you want to thump on the Bible some more, we can do so on the Religious forum. Until then, start with the below.

Quote:

---

Related Biblical Principles

While the exact story isn't in Scripture, it illustrates ideas that are taught in the Bible:

God often works through ordinary people and circumstances rather than dramatic, supernatural rescues every time.

Examples:
God fed Elijah through ravens and a widow (1 Kings 17).
God used a talking donkey to get Balaam's attention (Numbers 22).
The Good Samaritan helped the injured man when religious people passed by (Luke 10:25-37).


We are called to recognize and accept the help God sends, even if it doesn't look like what we expected.

A close parallel in attitude is Naaman (2 Kings 5), who almost missed his healing because he expected something grand and dramatic instead of the simple instruction to wash in the Jordan River.


Faith involves action and wisdom, not just passive waiting.

"Faith without works is dead" (James 2:14-26).

"The plans of the diligent lead surely to abundance, but everyone who is hasty comes only to poverty" (Proverbs 21:5).

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths" (Proverbs 3:5-6).


God's ways and timing are often different from ours.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord" (Isaiah 55:8).

---

Quote:

---

The "let nature / god take its course" crowd were absent on the day the parable about the man in rising flood waters was taught.

---

Easy implication here...God crowd missing the day the parable about the man rising in flood waters was taught...That wasn't taught in the Bible. That's my point. Call it Bible thumping if you wish, but I am simply stating my understanding of the Bible as it relates to the topic.

Speaking of...

"Thou shall not kill"

Pretty straightforward, yes? Euthanasia is killing regardless if it has a different name.

Look, I understand where people are coming from that support it. I like others have seen suffering. I have a family member who has terrible dementia. She has lived with it for years and likely will several more. The family doesn't even want to put her in a nursing home, much less euthanasia (if it was an option). I am not making a judgement on someone's opinion of the subject, Christian or otherwise. I was simply adding my opinion of the subject based on my faith based opinion, as I understand the Bible.

Govt should not be an active participate in the death of any innocent life. Thats not a li reason we want govt to get anywhere near.

Look at canada and the absolute travesty happening there with maid

3rd Coast said:

---

Quote:

---

The "let nature / god take its course" crowd were absent on the day the parable about the man in rising flood waters was taught.

---

Easy implication here...God crowd missing the day the parable about the man rising in flood waters was taught...That wasn't taught in the Bible. That's my point. Call it Bible thumping if you wish, but I am simply stating my understanding of the Bible as it relates to the topic.

Speaking of...

"Thou shall not kill"

Pretty straightforward, yes? Euthanasia is killing regardless if it has a different name.

Look, I understand where people are coming from that support it. I like others have seen suffering. I have a family member who has terrible dementia. She has lived with it for years and likely will several more. The family doesn't even want to put her in a nursing home, much less euthanasia (if it was an option). I am not making a judgement on someone's opinion of the subject, Christian or otherwise. I was simply adding my opinion of the subject based on my faith based opinion, as I understand the Bible.

---

Yes, yes you were.

flown-the-coop said:

---

Maybe quit calling it euthanasia and call it what it really is…

---

Euthanafrica?

The levels of insensitive and autocratic ignorance on this thread is wild, even by Texags standards.

Plenty of hospice nurses dial up the morphine when the time has come. For my dad and us, it was a blessing.

cecil77 said:

---

The levels of insensitive and autocratic ignorance on this thread is wild, even by Texags standards.

Plenty of hospice nurses dial up the morphine when the time has come. For my dad and us, it was a blessing.

---

The hospice nurse was fantastic.

cecil77 said:

---

The levels of insensitive and autocratic ignorance on this thread is wild, even by Texags standards.

Plenty of hospice nurses dial up the morphine when the time has come. For my dad and us, it was a blessing.

---

Hospice does good with the limits our state handcuffs them with. Good for you that they just dialed up the morphine; that still doesn't mean it is always quick and dignified. It can be a very drawn out end for some. That is a fact.

Bob Lee said:

---

FIDO*98* said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

But it's absolutely not the same thing legally or morally.

---

Laws are written by man. It is legal according to the law in many places.

Morality is your interpretation of a divine and higher power. I would guess we believe in the same deity however I do not believe there is a moral conflict. I witnessed an uncle with dementia and cancer who was dead long before his body gave up the ghost. I would have no moral issues facing my God if I had been able to end his suffering early. As you so eloquently put it. It's not that hard.

---

morality is not an interpretation. Your interpretation of the moral law or revelation is an interpretation of ontological reality. This is not a minor distinction. We shouldn't allow ourselves to believe that the moral law only exists in our minds. This is the kind of thing people say when they're trying to rationalize their behavior.

---

Suicide itself is not well addressed in the Bible. Assisted suicide for the terrminally ill patient who is suffering is certainly not addressed. Your statement of 'ontological reality' is quite literally your interpretation of reality. Biblical scholars debate all kinds of things regarding morality. You have simply decided your moral reality is the will of God. Your insistence on human suffering is what I would call evil.

FIDO*98* said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

FIDO*98* said:

---

Seamaster said:

---

But it's absolutely not the same thing legally or morally.

---

Laws are written by man. It is legal according to the law in many places.

Morality is your interpretation of a divine and higher power. I would guess we believe in the same deity however I do not believe there is a moral conflict. I witnessed an uncle with dementia and cancer who was dead long before his body gave up the ghost. I would have no moral issues facing my God if I had been able to end his suffering early. As you so eloquently put it. It's not that hard.

---

morality is not an interpretation. Your interpretation of the moral law or revelation is an interpretation of ontological reality. This is not a minor distinction. We shouldn't allow ourselves to believe that the moral law only exists in our minds. This is the kind of thing people say when they're trying to rationalize their behavior.

---

Suicide itself is not well addressed in the Bible. Assisted suicide for the terrminally ill patient who is suffering is certainly not addressed. Your statement of 'ontological reality' is quite literally your interpretation of reality. Biblical scholars debate all kinds of things regarding morality. You have simply decided your moral reality is the will of God. Your insistence on human suffering is what I would call evil.

---

to take the opposite position is to say that the moral law doesn't exist in reality. because to say it's an ontological reality is just to say that it is a really existing thing. if you don't believe that then it doesn't make sense to say anything is evil.

do you kill everyone who is suffering or do you insist they suffer?

hunter2012 said:

---

Nature must take it's course, it's not splitting hairs to say there's a difference between alleviating pain while nature take it's course and actively killing someone. There must be a black and white line regarding life and death of people. Anything else justifies human malevolence, even if it's under the guise of mercy.

---

Look up the case of Omayra Snchez. She was a 13 year old Colombian trapped after a volcano erupted with no possible chance of escape and no way to save her. Journalists watched her slowly die over the course of days.

Should they not have just shot her in the head and put her out of her misery? Is there some glory in allowing her to suffer when they had the power to show mercy?

Rubicante said:

---

I feel like most people who are against euthanasia in all circumstances have the fortune of never having had to personally witness a loved one waste away in a 24/7 existence of agony and terror. I came very close to killing a loved one and accepting the consequences so I could release them from their torment.

---

My sister had a friend who was a nurse and she told her that their was one case where a woman was dying but yet, the family refused to sign a DNR order and wanted to keep her alive as long as possible. She would code and the family demanded she be resuscitated.

I do not know what this woman did so that the family continued to see her suffer but to me, this was not "love".