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Anyone with experience in the Startup world?

2,469 Views | 17 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by Stmichael
Stmichael
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AG
I've got an interesting choice in front of me. I'm currently employed at a (relatively) safe corporate job with decent salary. The work is tedious and not in the least bit exciting/fulfilling, but it pays the bills and feeds the wife and baby.

Last week I got contacted by a recruiter looking for a process engineer with 5ish years of experience to fill a job opening for a company that's currently in startup mode, though has been at it for a few years already. According to the recruiter (obligatory grain of salt) they're willing to pay the equivalent of a 30% raise, plus 15% bonus (currently no annual bonus), plus stock options.

I've heard all sorts of warnings about the risks of working for a startup; everything from job insecurity to long hours. Is there anyone here who has some experience with this? Any advice on determining if the risk is worth it, or means of mitigating said risk? Or should I expect such outrageous hours that I'll have no time to spend with my wife and baby girl?
CapCity12thMan
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AG
you'll probably love it until it doesn't work out. If it does fail - you will be infinitely more intelligent about all aspects of whatever business you are in, and if you are any good will be able to go find another job with some good material from which to draw from during interviews for your next gig. It shows you are willing to take risks. Take the money while you can get it, if it is indeed more and real.

I could share my crazy startup story but its really long winded, but yada yada yada, the owner/founder is in federal prison.
Astroag
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Stmichael said:

I've got an interesting choice in front of me. I'm currently employed at a (relatively) safe corporate job with decent salary. The work is tedious and not in the least bit exciting/fulfilling, but it pays the bills and feeds the wife and baby.

Last week I got contacted by a recruiter looking for a process engineer with 5ish years of experience to fill a job opening for a company that's currently in startup mode, though has been at it for a few years already. According to the recruiter (obligatory grain of salt) they're willing to pay the equivalent of a 30% raise, plus 15% bonus (currently no annual bonus), plus stock options.

I've heard all sorts of warnings about the risks of working for a startup; everything from job insecurity to long hours. Is there anyone here who has some experience with this? Any advice on determining if the risk is worth it, or means of mitigating said risk? Or should I expect such outrageous hours that I'll have no time to spend with my wife and baby girl?


I'd do lots of research on the company, industry, competitors, investors (this one will tell you a lot depending on who), fund raising (how much, series, etc), founders history…from there you can make an educated guess on whether or not you think it's a good move for you.

Start up is a pretty broad term these days that encompasses true stealth mode start up w zero funding and limited employees to large non-public companies w lots of employees, several rounds of funding, and close to ipo.

Money is def a bonus but also if it's early enough you should get some exposure to people that are entrepreneurial and thus opportunities to get in on other potential big projects.

As already pointed out, it's risky as most start ups go belly up so your options should be looked at as a bonus and not really carry too much weight in decision unless it's pretty clear that it's going to ipo.
Rudyjax
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This.

I'm working with a startup that is backed by 2 of the largest companies in the world with a customer in place.

That would be a no brainer.

Also, as an engineer you're not necessarily going to get fired when if/they are acquired.

Keep in mind you'll work over 30% harder and probably 30% longer.

Does that increase afford changes in your families lifestyle?

When my kids were small I took about a 10% decrease in pay to work remotely. I was able to help get them ready for school, I was able to coach soccer, I was home for dinner every night.

It's not just about the job but moreso how it affects your entire life.

All that being said, it sounds like a great oppty.
Astroag
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One additional thing on the options…make sure you understand the vesting. How much do you lose if you leave.
jh0400
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What was the value and date of the last 409A that they are using to assign a strike price to the options, and how much liquidation preference is currently ahead of you on the cap table? There are easier ways to make a salary than working for a startup, so its good to understand what it will take to realize upside.
bmks270
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I've worked at a few startups. I love it.
Typically it's more hours, but a lot more engaging and fun. You get a lot more responsibility and control. Your contributions make a much bigger contribution to the companies success.

I'd try and find out how experienced the team is and the technical leadership, not necessarily the founder, but engineering management and the team as a whole. A lot of startups hire entry level or early career engineers and they really need a more experienced team. It becomes very chaotic.

Expect very fast changing corporate goals. The companies are usually still trying to find the optimal product-market fit, and feeling out the market. So objectives change often, avenues get explored, you investigate new ideas, and you learn for one reason or another why that idea won't work, or isn't practical because of time or budget pressures. Or you learn something new about customer needs and have to modify the product.

I have also worked as a contractor for well established mega-corps, and despite the chaotic environment of startups, I'd take it any day over the boring and old already established mega-corps.

You get to be a lot more creative at startups.

It's definitely more hours, but also more rewarding. I would avoid a team that is lacking experience. One startup I was at most of the engineers it was their first job or they were like 1-2 years experience, and they were all smart but really the inexperienced showed. I was a bit more experienced than the rest. Although I admit it was still worth the experience just a lot of chaos and things done inefficiently due to inexperience.

You also need to determine what runway you're comfortable with. For me it's typically 1 year. If I feel confident the company won't fold within the year and I think they're well positioned with their tech, then it's lower risk.

Understand there are typically funding milestones to unlock more investor dollars. Ask them what these are.

Also ask them what is the biggest challenges they see ahead. Ask them what parts of their tech roadmap they are struggling with the most or has the most uncertainty.


If you get to the offer stage here is what is standard. If it's different than this it's a red flag so ask why. Options are typically ISOs (incentive stock options, aka qualified for special tax treatment compare to NSOs aka non-qualified) with a 4 year vesting period, that has a 1 year Cliff for the first 25%, then the remaining are vested in equal parts monthly over the next 36 months (1/48th of the options each month). Make sure there are no claw backs or repurchase rights for vested options if you leave or are let go.

You'll also want to know your fully diluted share. So make sure to know the number of shares, the number of fully diluted shares of the company.


Just keep in mind the options are like lottery tickets, and they aren't liquid. They may never be if the company folds, or only after like a decade after the company scales. So they are a long term play. It's to keep good and early employees invested for the long haul with the chance at huge multiples.

Usually startups pay lower and use option and equity as justification, but in this case you're getting a big salary increase along with equity potentially so that's a big win in my opinion.

It's really case by case as to the long term stability. Companies can go a decade plus just fund raising. But your best bet is if they have customers already backlogged or at a minimum some kind of memorandum of understanding for making a purchase if the company delivers the products. Launch provider start ups are a good example. Relativity Space for example can raise money without a rocket because they built up a back log of customers who have agreed to purchase launches provided the rocket is built.

So ask them who are their customers are (or will be) and who they have already lined up and have agreements with.
bmks270
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I want to ad, if you're really talented and good at your job, and confident you can find another one quickly if it fails, then it's really not much of a risk.

I feel confident in my ability to get another job if needed, so I'm okay with the perceived risks of startups.

Big well established corporations have massive layoffs all the time and everyone is just a number. They're not safe either.
AgLA06
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bmks270 said:

I want to ad, if you're really talented and good at your job, and confident you can find another one quickly if it fails, then it's really not much of a risk.

I feel confident in my ability to get another job if needed, so I'm okay with the perceived risks of startups.

Big well established corporations have massive layoffs all the time and everyone is just a number. They're not safe either.
A couple of things that will matter.

What industry and where is the company located? Do you have to relocate? These things can drastically change the experience.

Other things I would want to know is where are they in the process? What are their expectations to go to market and who the customers will be (if they don't have any already on board that could be a red flag)? Are you in office or working remote? Will your role change after they go to market or IPO? How are they backed (companies financing them, what stakes, etc.)?

Startups are risky, but like was mentioned, so are every day companies now. There is no such thing as loyalty anymore for either side. So with a 30% bump, could you put enough money to the side so if this doesn't work out and you lost your job in a year or 18 months, you could have 9 months to a year salary in hand? If yes, unless you just don't want to change, roll the dice.

Seems like the upside outweighs the downside and you could find another boring job.
Stmichael
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This is great so far, definitely going to take notes on the questions to ask if I should get an interview.

If anyone would be so kind, https://www.utilityglobal.com/ is their website. They're producing an energy efficient hydrogen generation platform with no added electrical utility. My first concern is how much they're hammering the environmental buzz words, which suggests to me that they might be after more of the clean energy feel good fad rather than an economically sound product. But I very well might be reading too much into that. I don't immediately recognize any of the names they have in the "about us" section, but that doesn't mean much. Basically everyone there has 25-30 years of experience in one field or another. Their big investment backer has only been around since 2017, which doesn't sound long to me at all. Said hedge fund lists $6.2 billion AUM though, which seems like a fairly solid chunk of change.

Any opinions on this company? Red flags I'm not seeing, diamond in the rough, etc.?
Deputy Travis Junior
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According to pitchbook, they JUST raised a $48M series C (closed only a few weeks ago) and they have Samsung and Aramco on their cap table. I'd interpret those to mean that this is a well-funded company whose tech has been vetted by industry leaders. Further, the very recent close should mean that they have enough cash to last them 18 months of cash at minimum, so you're not at risk of a layoff for a little while.

No startup is low risk, but this is not a young company in somebody's garage. They have done real work that's impressed some heavy hitters.

Only thing that worries me, though, is I know hydrogen fuel cell tech is brand new. Do these guys have a product? Are they generating any revenue at all, or are they burning cash while conducting R&D with dreams of launching some product years from now? I'm way out of my element speaking on hydrogen fuel, so you'll need to evaluate the viability of the tech (and hell, the industry) yourself.
bmks270
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It says produce Hydrogen without electricity but their graphic shows it starting the process with steam. So I'd be curious where the energy to heat the steam comes from. It says turn waste gases into H2, and the graphic shows CO, as the waste gas, being converted to CO2, and the steam being converted to H2. Would want to know what they do with the CO2 and what the customer economic case is for using this system. And how is it "green" or how does it reduce carbon intensity.

I'd be a little cautious of H2 companies generally because I think it's falling out of favor as a fossil fuel alternative. But maybe a pay boost for the next 12-18 months is still worth it. People are beginning to recognize Hydrogens limitations and thermodynamic lifecycle inefficiency. Everything is case by case, so I'd be curious who their customers are. Are they positioning themselves as a green hydrogen company, or are they selling this to others to make green hydrogen with their waste streams?
bmks270
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I'd be curious who founded the company. None of the faces on the website indicate founder. What happened to the founder?
Deputy Travis Junior
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According to pitchbook, Jin Dawson and David Hall founded it. Looks like they aren't in leadership roles there anymore.
Stmichael
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That's great insight, thanks guys. The product they've developed is effectively to take waste gas streams and produce what's known as syn gas (short for synthesis gas) plus h2. I think their sales pitch is coming on too strong for renewable energy transition, because I'd argue their real potential is improved efficiency and reduced waste by making chemical feed stock. But that's neither here nor there. They're well funded, have a solid year and a half of runway at least, but the original founders have moved on for some reason. All great info to be armed with.

Thanks again!
DallasAg 94
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bmks270
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On the equity, well funded VCs that grow large enough might often create ways for employees to tap into their equity before an IPO or sale. I know of some companies where employee equity has paid well (more than their base salary), SpaceX is one outlier example where employees are given an opportunity to cash out equity occasionally. Like when doing a new fundraising round, employees might be able to sell shares to the investors. This would definitely be something to ask about, if they are looking for IPO, to be bought, or remain private with an avenue for employees to sell shares.

Equity value long term really depends on the ultimate market size and how large the company can grow. Is the market large enough for the company to ever have a billion dollar valuation? 10 billion? 50+ billion?
Stmichael
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Thanks everyone for your replies. Sadly, they decided not to interview in favor of someone with more closely related experience to their business model (syn gas, of which I have none.) This is still great stuff to know for the future though!
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