Was RIF'd out of a job in November and had an interview with another small company. I could walk into the job and do it tomorrow with zero training, but they offered me 60k less than the job I just lost. Granted, I was a director in that role, but for a comparable job level, they are still 30-40k too low based in what I have made in the past.

I plan to counter to see what happens, but have been networking like crazy and can surely eventually get an appropriately sized and salaried job for my experience.

Debating whether to get them as high as I can, accept if they don't rescind, and keep applying elsewhere, or call no glory and walk.

Definitely counter. We've gotten creative to get people where they want to be. With us the position budget is the budget, but the creativity allows us to bridge the gap for a year until we can get something higher approved in the budget.

I had a long talk with hiring manager about my skillset and experience to try to see how we could get creative and maybe up-size the role so both sides get what they want. He thought it made sense but his boss shot it down. They offered a small pittance more but I would be setback 10 years of salary history.

I have 17 years of experience as a PhD and they offered me literally what I was just paying a PhD fresh out of school.

I dont think I can accept this when they know I'm unhappy with the offer from day 1, plus it would make any time taken off to interview look extremely suspicious.

This is why I may be to the point where if you dont post a salary range upfront, im not even going to talk to you.

Since you said it's a small company, are they offering equity or profit sharing that could bridge the gap on total comp?

Nope. Absolutely nothing else. Low salary, pitiful 401k match, and expensive insurance ($740 a month to cover wife and I and still only has 80% coverage on a handful of things). No bonus, profit sharing, or stock. They ignored me when I asked for PTO details. I had worked up to 25 days off in last job, and 20 in job before that, and expect them to come back to with something low there too.

Its an option. The only thing I don't know how to navigate is trying to actually interview with another company when the time comes. Doing it on company time isn't right, and probably fireable anyways, but taking PTO early is going to raise suspicion.

Cromagnum said:

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Its an option. The only thing I don't know how to navigate is trying to actually interview with another company when the time comes. Doing it on company time isn't right, and probably fireable anyways, but taking PTO early is going to raise suspicion.

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I felt the same way when interviewing for my current position about a year ago. Had been at previous employer for 23 years. In retrospect, it's not a big deal and almost everyone does it. Think of it like this....you wouldn't have to do it if they would pay you what you're worth.

Cromagnum said:

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Its an option. The only thing I don't know how to navigate is trying to actually interview with another company when the time comes. Doing it on company time isn't right, and probably fireable anyways, but taking PTO early is going to raise suspicion.

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Dentist appointment or some other annual/semi annual doctor visit, like dermatologist for your annual mole check.

We'll see how this plays out. I spoke to the hiring manager on Friday morning and he said HR would call me to talk about benefits that afternoon. They didn't, but did send me the insurance selection brochure which doesn't help much.

No verbal communication on other benefits, and no written details of any kind. No idea at all on PTO, 401k vesting period, profit sharing (if any), bonus structure (if any), etc. Suspect no bonus or profit sharing, and lowball coming on PTO time.

MS08 said:

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You don't sound happy at all about this opportunity. So, I have a feeling, that will only get worst once your start (if you take it). Either you need a perspective/mindset/attitude shift about it or you need to pass. Not trying to be harsh but that's my candid $0.02

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I'm frustrated that I lost my job in November and the only opportunity that has come is one that undervalues my experience and that I would intend to stay at for as short of time as possible if I took it.

The job on its face is a near mirror image of one I had 15 years ago so there is no skills to be gained nor room for growth. It would simply be a paycheck for a while.

You are out of work…why is this even a question or debate. You don't have to stay but money better than no money.

Respectfully, of course

Cromagnum said:

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Its an option. The only thing I don't know how to navigate is trying to actually interview with another company when the time comes. Doing it on company time isn't right, and probably fireable anyways, but taking PTO early is going to raise suspicion.

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Everybody interviews on company time / during work days. Just schedule them around lunch and nobody will notice.

Astroag said:

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You are out of work…why is this even a question or debate. You don't have to stay but money better than no money.

Respectfully, of course

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Agreed. You say you are being offered the same job you did 15 years ago...with 17 years of experience. Are u implying its entry level? Why did you even interview for it? You're director level but subject to a RIF. You're negotiating for PTO with a person who can't make the call. There are so many discontinuities here compared to my expectation.

You either need the money or you don't. Not to drag out the point but something told you to interview for this position and its either lack of conviction in your real value as a contributor... or you need the income.

Sims said:

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Astroag said:

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You are out of work…why is this even a question or debate. You don't have to stay but money better than no money.

Respectfully, of course

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Agreed. You say you are being offered the same job you did 15 years ago...with 17 years of experience. Are u implying its entry level? Why did you even interview for it? You're director level but subject to a RIF. You're negotiating for PTO with a person who can't make the call. There are so many discontinuities here compared to my expectation.

You either need the money or you don't. Not to drag out the point but something told you to interview for this position and its either lack of conviction in your real value as a contributor... or you need the income.

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It was a job posted at a senior level (not director level albeit, but still senior) without a salary range. I was referred by an industry colleague to give these guys a look so I did. It turns out they dont know what they want. They fired their entire lab team in 2024, then decided they are losing too much money by not having their lab active. So the job is to rebuild the lab, restaff it, and get everything running efficiently again, while also working on strategy with the C-Suite folks and other directors. I was paid what these guys just offered me back in 2014, but this is exactly like a job I did back around 2010-2011.

My dilemma is that the job I just lost was a ****show due to an indecisive CEO/CTO (same person) and their COO. Every day was a new prioritization and a cesspool of cussing out most of the staff nearly daily. Im gun shy about getting into another role that may wind up just look that if the new company really doesn't have clear direction either.

Cromagnum said:

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Sims said:

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Astroag said:

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You are out of work…why is this even a question or debate. You don't have to stay but money better than no money.

Respectfully, of course

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Agreed. You say you are being offered the same job you did 15 years ago...with 17 years of experience. Are u implying its entry level? Why did you even interview for it? You're director level but subject to a RIF. You're negotiating for PTO with a person who can't make the call. There are so many discontinuities here compared to my expectation.

You either need the money or you don't. Not to drag out the point but something told you to interview for this position and its either lack of conviction in your real value as a contributor... or you need the income.

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It was a job posted at a senior level (not director level albeit, but still senior) without a salary range. I was referred by an industry colleague to give these guys a look so I did. It turns out they dont know what they want. They fired their entire lab team in 2024, then decided they are losing too much money by not having their lab active. So the job is to rebuild the lab, restaff it, and get everything running efficiently again, while also working on strategy with the C-Suite folks and other directors. I was paid what these guys just offered me back in 2014, but this is exactly like a job I did back around 2010-2011.

My dilemma is that the job I just lost was a ****show due to an indecisive CEO/CTO (same person) and their COO. Every day was a new prioritization and a cesspool of cussing out most of the staff nearly daily. Im gun shy about getting into another role that may wind up just look that if the new company really doesn't have clear direction either.

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But your post was about being lowballed while out of work….

Astroag said:

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Cromagnum said:

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Sims said:

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Astroag said:

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You are out of work…why is this even a question or debate. You don't have to stay but money better than no money.

Respectfully, of course

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Agreed. You say you are being offered the same job you did 15 years ago...with 17 years of experience. Are u implying its entry level? Why did you even interview for it? You're director level but subject to a RIF. You're negotiating for PTO with a person who can't make the call. There are so many discontinuities here compared to my expectation.

You either need the money or you don't. Not to drag out the point but something told you to interview for this position and its either lack of conviction in your real value as a contributor... or you need the income.

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It was a job posted at a senior level (not director level albeit, but still senior) without a salary range. I was referred by an industry colleague to give these guys a look so I did. It turns out they dont know what they want. They fired their entire lab team in 2024, then decided they are losing too much money by not having their lab active. So the job is to rebuild the lab, restaff it, and get everything running efficiently again, while also working on strategy with the C-Suite folks and other directors. I was paid what these guys just offered me back in 2014, but this is exactly like a job I did back around 2010-2011.

My dilemma is that the job I just lost was a ****show due to an indecisive CEO/CTO (same person) and their COO. Every day was a new prioritization and a cesspool of cussing out most of the staff nearly daily. Im gun shy about getting into another role that may wind up just look that if the new company really doesn't have clear direction either.

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But your post was about being lowballed while out of work….

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By that logic I could work at McDonalds because hey, its better than being unemployed.

Uh yes…if you are out of work, any legit job is better than nothing assuming you can actually get hired (I understand some of those jobs won't hire you bc they know it will be temporary)

Any thought otherwise is just ego talking….

Astroag said:

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Uh yes…if you are out of work, any legit job is better than nothing assuming you can actually get hired (I understand some of those jobs won't hire you bc they know it will be temporary)

Any thought otherwise is just ego talking….

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Its not ego to want to actually use my PhD and experience. Thanks for contributing though.

Cromag - you seem like a good dude. Interesting thread as you are balancing a lot and the lingering stress of your past role.

If you "just need a paycheck" - what if you get a temporary job that is completely unrelated to your field. Not McDonalds as mentioned but something that will get you moving / out of the house.

Sincere good luck!!

AM09 said:

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Cromag - you seem like a good dude. Interesting thread as you are balancing a lot and the lingering stress of your past role.

If you "just need a paycheck" - what if you get a temporary job that is completely unrelated to your field. Not McDonalds as mentioned but something that will get you moving / out of the house.

Sincere good luck!!

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Appreciate it. Its been very tough mentally for me the last year, but especially the last two months with this unemployment stress. I feel as if I have aged 10 years, certainly show it with my new silver hair. Doesn't help having an unsupportive family (my side) that held it against us that we left Houston to come to Austin, though my wife and her family are now happier for that.

This particular role may have fell through before I decided one way or another anyhow. I negotiated on Thursday/Friday with the hiring manager and requested the rest of the offer package so I could review with my wife. It was never sent, and both he and their HR have ghosted me since. Online reviews may have had some truth to their culture afterall.

I feel you. I went through something similar and looked for a job that paid anywhere close to my old job for about 3 years. I was able to make ends meet working for myself and eventually changed careers totally. Took quite the pay cut to do it but I enjoy what I am doing and it keeps the lights on. All I can tell you is good luck.