Assassin's Creed; Shadows

6,325 Views | 61 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by Definitely Not A Cop
Dark_Knight
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In reply to bluefire579 • 12:43a, 5/23/24
AG
bluefire579 said:
agdoc2001 said:
Did he get triggered when Japanese developers, of their own accord, included a foreigner who is a major figure in Japanese history as he assisted Togugawa in the civil war which resulted in the unification of what became modern Japan and is the entire basis for the TV series "Shogun"?

No, I'm guessing he didn't.
So historical white guy who has a fictionalized show based on his life as protagonist in game set in Japan is okay. Historical black guy who has a fictionalized show based on his life as protagonist in game set in Japan isn't. Got it.

I'm sure there's a reason for it, but can't quite put my finger on it...


Ah yes, here comes the thinly veiled claim that I'm being racist. There's always that one smooth brain.

A TV show by Japanese that use actual historical characters is different than a video game developer using a vaguely historical figure, then made some stuff up trying to pass it off as historical fact.
Let's just gloss over the fact that every AC game up to this point you played as a native to the regions, until now...
But yes I'm the racist for having a problem with them pandering and not using an actual Japanese man for their protagonist.
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Dark_Knight
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In reply to bluefire579 • 12:51a, 5/23/24
AG
bluefire579 said:
Dark_Knight said:
YouBet said:
Dark_Knight said:
Lol there wasn't a black samurai.
Of course wokeness ruins another game.


Based on the history the game devs have shared and reading up on this elsewhere, this guy was apparently real. I will say I've done only a cursory review of it so maybe some truth is being stretched here. Don't know.

But, yes, my first thought was the game devs are yet again injecting races into their games that are nonsensical. I got a good laugh when I got back to my town in Valhalla and discovered my smithy had been replaced with a black female. Lol. Sure, sure.


They're going to peddle this crap and say he was, but he was never a samurai. Glorified sword retainer for a samurai was all he ever was.

Still, whether he was real or not, why use this character? Out of all the historical figures of Japan, this is who they pick? That's a slap in the face to all Japanese. In every game up to this point, you get to play as a native to the region, but nope draw the line at the Japs. Gotta find a random black dude.
Did you complain this much when Nioh had a white guy as the protagonist or do you only get triggered by black guys in your Japan-set video games?


The disingenuous claim that I must be racist.....ah yes of course.
Well since it is set in Japan, it should be Japanese.
It'd be like them setting a game in the Congo and the main character be Indian or some white dude from France.
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Deputy Travis Junior
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In reply to bluefire579 • 9:55a, 5/24/24
Terrible analogy. If they'd had John Blackthorn running around as a samurai by episode 3 and all the other characters had faded to background noise, you'd have a point, but he was portrayed as an Englishman with English mannerisms, habits, and thought patterns. The emphasis was on the interaction between the two very different cultures, and they never pretended he was a samurai.

The Last Samurai is closer to what AC is doing here, but even that is weaker. The whole point of that one was "foreigner discovers the virtues and of a foreign culture through immersion."
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Fenrir
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11:18a, 5/24/24
If this game were made 10 years ago in a Japanese setting it would have almost certainly only had Japanese people as the main protagonists. Ubi is nostrils deep in DEI now though.

I dearly miss what AC started out as. Went off the rails from a storytelling and gameplay standpoint with Origins for me. AC1 through the Ezio trilogy is one of my favorite stretches of any video game series.
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wangus12
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 11:58a, 5/24/24
AG
Deputy Travis Junior said:
Terrible analogy. If they'd had John Blackthorn running around as a samurai by episode 3 and all the other characters had faded to background noise, you'd have a point, but he was portrayed as an Englishman with English mannerisms, habits, and thought patterns. The emphasis was on the interaction between the two very different cultures, and they never pretended he was a samurai.

The Last Samurai is closer to what AC is doing here, but even that is weaker. The whole point of that one was "foreigner discovers the virtues and of a foreign culture through immersion."
To be fair, Ubisoft has said the entire reason they are using Yasuke is to have the gamer play as a foreigner and seeing Japan and its culture through the eyes of a foreigner.

Personally it really doesn't bother me very much, but I do wish they'd have just made up a Japanese character for the Samurai role. Just have a solid story and I'll be happy with it.
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bluefire579
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 12:24p, 5/24/24
AG
Deputy Travis Junior said:
Terrible analogy. If they'd had John Blackthorn running around as a samurai by episode 3 and all the other characters had faded to background noise, you'd have a point, but he was portrayed as an Englishman with English mannerisms, habits, and thought patterns. The emphasis was on the interaction between the two very different cultures, and they never pretended he was a samurai.

The Last Samurai is closer to what AC is doing here, but even that is weaker. The whole point of that one was "foreigner discovers the virtues and of a foreign culture through immersion."
They literally give him the title of Hatamoto (i.e. a high ranking samurai) in the third episode. A big part of his character arc is discovering ways in which Japanese culture is superior to western even as he's put off by other aspects, and you especially see it in how he changes his dress, his mannerisms, carries swords, starts enjoying baths, etc. It takes a back seat in the modern series with the shift in focus to the Japanese point of view, but exactly what you described in the second paragraph is taking place. In the book, it's even more present, especially since you can see all the inner dialogue.
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bluefire579
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In reply to Dark_Knight • 12:31p, 5/24/24
AG
Dark_Knight said:
bluefire579 said:
agdoc2001 said:
Did he get triggered when Japanese developers, of their own accord, included a foreigner who is a major figure in Japanese history as he assisted Togugawa in the civil war which resulted in the unification of what became modern Japan and is the entire basis for the TV series "Shogun"?

No, I'm guessing he didn't.
So historical white guy who has a fictionalized show based on his life as protagonist in game set in Japan is okay. Historical black guy who has a fictionalized show based on his life as protagonist in game set in Japan isn't. Got it.

I'm sure there's a reason for it, but can't quite put my finger on it...


Ah yes, here comes the thinly veiled claim that I'm being racist. There's always that one smooth brain.

A TV show by Japanese that use actual historical characters is different than a video game developer using a vaguely historical figure, then made some stuff up trying to pass it off as historical fact.
Let's just gloss over the fact that every AC game up to this point you played as a native to the regions, until now...
But yes I'm the racist for having a problem with them pandering and not using an actual Japanese man for their protagonist.
Yeah, those characters in Shogun, not historical. There was no John Blackthorne, no Toranaga, no Mariko, etc. They were characters created by James Clavell who were based on real people, taking part in events based on historical events, and the cultural aspects were super well researched, but the story definitely puts the fiction into historical fiction.

The AC games do the exact same thing, with a bit of sci-fi and fantastical elements sprinkled in. No one ever tried to claim that their games are historical fact. Like Shogun, they have well researched cultural aspects, and can mix in actual history as a tool to get people more interested in the subject, but it's never presented as anything other than fiction. Hell, they literally have the same disclaimer before every game saying that it was inspired by real people and events but is a work of fiction.
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Deputy Travis Junior
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In reply to bluefire579 • 1:23p, 5/24/24
He gets an honorary title because he shares information of value that he possesses by virtue of his background (professional and cultural). But again, he doesn't begin playing samurai and wrecking shop while excluding other characters from the plot. He still uses his guns, sucks with his sword, and revolts the natives with his English recipes. Yes, he begins assimilating somewhat, but they never ever hold him up as a representation of Japanese culture. This guy in AC on the other hand wearing samurai armor and swinging samurai weapons.

If you want to tell a semi-historically accurate story about a samurai warrior, that character should be Japanese.

BTW: if they make "Assassin's Creed: Zulu warrior" and the main character is a Japanese guy, I'll say the same thing.
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Lathspell
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In reply to Deputy Travis Junior • 10:32a, 5/25/24
AG
You aren't going to convince that guy. It is very obvious to many of us when these developers, showrunners, writers, etc, are ham-fisting their racial and identity crap down our throats. There's another segment of people who are simply offended at the fact you are calling it out for what it is.

I doubt this guy is truly that obtuse as to not understand the difference, but he's still going to take the opportunity to virtue signal at you because it makes him feel better about himself. It's a mind virus and cult-like way of thinking. They refuse to see any nuance in your opinion and wish people who thought like you didn't even exist.

As for the game, I rolled my eyes the moment I saw the trailer. Definitely not going to play this and give that company my $70.
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Dark_Knight
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In reply to bluefire579 • 4:40a, 5/26/24
AG
bluefire579 said:
Dark_Knight said:
bluefire579 said:
agdoc2001 said:
Did he get triggered when Japanese developers, of their own accord, included a foreigner who is a major figure in Japanese history as he assisted Togugawa in the civil war which resulted in the unification of what became modern Japan and is the entire basis for the TV series "Shogun"?

No, I'm guessing he didn't.
So historical white guy who has a fictionalized show based on his life as protagonist in game set in Japan is okay. Historical black guy who has a fictionalized show based on his life as protagonist in game set in Japan isn't. Got it.

I'm sure there's a reason for it, but can't quite put my finger on it...


Ah yes, here comes the thinly veiled claim that I'm being racist. There's always that one smooth brain.

A TV show by Japanese that use actual historical characters is different than a video game developer using a vaguely historical figure, then made some stuff up trying to pass it off as historical fact.
Let's just gloss over the fact that every AC game up to this point you played as a native to the regions, until now...
But yes I'm the racist for having a problem with them pandering and not using an actual Japanese man for their protagonist.
Yeah, those characters in Shogun, not historical. There was no John Blackthorne, no Toranaga, no Mariko, etc. They were characters created by James Clavell who were based on real people, taking part in events based on historical events, and the cultural aspects were super well researched, but the story definitely puts the fiction into historical fiction.

The AC games do the exact same thing, with a bit of sci-fi and fantastical elements sprinkled in. No one ever tried to claim that their games are historical fact. Like Shogun, they have well researched cultural aspects, and can mix in actual history as a tool to get people more interested in the subject, but it's never presented as anything other than fiction. Hell, they literally have the same disclaimer before every game saying that it was inspired by real people and events but is a work of fiction.


Yet they're passing off a black samurai as historical fact.
They also have some nonsense disclaimer that the games are made by a "diverse" group of people, just to let you know how woke they are.

Still, you're trying to accuse me of racism when that is quite the opposite. Actually it's honestly racist of Ubisoft to not use actual Japanese characters as the main protagonist.
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jeffk
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3:55p, 5/26/24
AG
Idk, I think it's pretty clear the developers wanted the game to have an insider and outsider perspective characters. They picked the insider to be a Japanese woman. The outsider could have been a white European or a middle eastern dude, but they've used both of those archetypes recently. I'm sure in their research they came across this black character and thought his story made an interesting new perspective.

Could they have gone with a Japanese man as the insider? Sure, but then who how do you get an outsider? A European woman? A black woman? Another foreign man? All of those have just as many issues as the route they settled on.

Or maybe they just have one playable character and it's a Japanese man. There's dozens of routes they could have taken but this is the story they wanted to tell and if it's anything like Origins, Odyssey, or Valhalla, I'm sure I'll enjoy it.
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YouBet
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10:09a, 5/27/24
AG
What clan is the black character in? Wu Tang Clan?
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wangus12
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8:35a, 6/11/24
AG


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jeffk
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In reply to wangus12 • 9:07a, 6/11/24
AG
Looks great. Love all the different stealth and weapon options they showed.
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easttexasaggie04
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9:59a, 6/11/24
AG
I'm finally playing Ghost of Tsushima on my Steam Deck now and I'm loving it. A game hasn't clicked with me like this in years. I'm curious how this will compare.
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Fenrir
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In reply to wangus12 • 9:54a, 6/12/24
Finally got to watch these. Absolutely love the setting. That's the biggest reason I'm interested in AC again for the first time in ages. Actually really loved the ninja's stealth and combat. Everything about it felt more akin to an improvement of early AC games. The options you have during these sections, the weapons, it all looks so great. Her stabbing a dude through a paper wall was so cool. Crawling through a pond and using a reed to breathe. So good. This looks like it would be a great time and have some good replayability.

The samurai combat looked so choppy and RPGish (I realize that this is where the recent games have gone so it makes sense in that regard, but the RPG like gameplay is a big part of what turned me off on the series). I really hope the number of sections you're forced to play as the samurai is minimal.

I did laugh when I realized they added hip hop to the soundtrack during the black samurai's combat section at least.
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wangus12
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In reply to Fenrir • 12:20p, 6/12/24
AG
I agree. I love the samurai part of history (thankfully we have Ghost of Tsushima and they nailed it), but I still feel with AC they should have just stuck with the ninja combat. It lines up perfectly for the story they typically try to tell.
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I Like Mike
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6:38a, 6/13/24
AG
Leave it to woke Ubisoft to screw something like this up. Japanese people ain't happy.




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jr15aggie
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In reply to Fenrir • 7:38a, 6/13/24
AG
Fenrir said:

I did laugh when I realized they added hip hop to the soundtrack during the black samurai's combat section at least.


Did they really!? Oh man, that's awesome. I haven't had time to watch the new videos, but that's really not helping their argument with why they chose to use a black samurai.

I've seen some small clips here and there of the new gameplay... looks pretty good. Starting to feel like these games are labeled AC just for the name recognition, but these games could be new stand alone IPs. And it makes sense... they probably will sell more copies with the AC label.
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Lathspell
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8:51a, 6/13/24
AG
I don't like them having two characters I have to play. Just adding more to bloated Ubisoft games. There's a reason games like Breath of the Wild and Elden Ring were so huge. They are not bloated with a million things that are just too much.

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YouBet
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12:10p, 6/13/24
AG
What type of game is this Ghost of Sushi Shima? Sounds interesting.
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I Like Mike
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In reply to YouBet • 1:31p, 6/13/24
AG
Action RPG. Great game. I just started it on Steam Deck and I love it. Beautiful graphics and super fun gameplay.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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12:16p, 7/20/24
AG
Not to kick the tire fire again (I don't really care about the color of the guy as long as I can be a badass samurai in the game) but it appears the primary source of the "yasuke was a samurai" was a white language professor in Japan whom was using circular sourcing and some very vague writings to make up the fact that he was a samurai to sell a book in 2019. It apparently had escaped scrutiny because he downplayed his claims in his Japanese writings on the subject. The culture war surrounding the game brought everything to the zeitgeist, and it was discovered that pretty much every other source claiming it is based off of his original claims. It's reached the political level in Japan now. The prof has been exposed and is now being removed from his teaching position.




Ultimately it probably ends up making the game a lot of money.
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Lathspell
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12:29p, 7/20/24
AG
That is awesome. Sometimes, the good guys win.
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C@LAg
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In reply to bluefire579 • 12:51p, 7/20/24
bluefire579 said:

Historical black guy who has a fictionalized show based on his life as protagonist in game set in Japan isn't. Got it.
bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

historical guy whose entire history is fabricated and was little more than a court jester and court oddity that played a fool. and not a samurai.

yes, please lecture us on this vibrant, relevant "historical figure".
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Artorias
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1:22p, 7/20/24
AG
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Definitely Not A Cop
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6:05a, 7/22/24
AG
Not sure now if the prof has been removed from his position. His name has been removed from the list of teachers on the college website in English, but apparently is still up on the Japanese version. Looks like the Internet might have been jumping the gun. Also not seeing any news sources other than Twitter and a few gamer websites reporting on this, which kind of makes me wonder if the Twitter accounts I've seen reporting it are going full Pepe Silvia.
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