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Webb/Zapata County Deer Lease 2 openings

58,929 Views | 319 Replies | Last: 21 hrs ago by joerobert_pete06
texAZtea
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12:38p, 5/12/22
AG
If that's a big enough area that you think trophy deer will stay mostly inside of your allotment, why would the lease syndicate get tore up about someone not providing ample protein in their area?

It wouldn't affect me if I put out enough feed. Hell, it might even bring your bucks to my area if you don't.
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jrrhouston98
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12:41p, 5/12/22
AG
This thread has provided so much joy and so many laughs. A shout out and thanks to Dirty Jerry and the boys.
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Howdy Dammit
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12:42p, 5/12/22
AG
My wife wouldn't give me a rule list this long if she was entrusting me to decorate our entire house….
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montanagriz
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In reply to joerobert_pete06 • 12:42p, 5/12/22
S
joerobert_pete06 said:
I think you guys are ignoring the fact that each hunter essentially has a ~1k acre area for themselves that they claim at the start of each season


But limited to only hunting within a few yards of designated feeding station. Not a true 1k acres to hunt as you want

My concern would be the subjectedness of aging a deer by teeth wear...7.5 by one guy might be 5.5 by Jerry, Brad, etc if they don't like you.

Teeth wear differently based on area they live. Cattlemen are very well aware of this raising cattle in different regions. Deer I think would be no different

Now if you pay to send the teeth off to a lab to settle discrepancy then that would be fair
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98Ag99Grad
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12:57p, 5/12/22
AG
Guess I need to add this thread back to my watch list.
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agsalaska
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In reply to 98Ag99Grad • 1:01p, 5/12/22
AG
98Ag99Grad said:
Guess I need to add this thread back to my watch list.
Yea we got a live one right now.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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cledus6150
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1:03p, 5/12/22
AG
Lots of entertainment going on….I do agree with the differing opinions on teeth aging and only way to truly know is to send off to a lab.
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joerobert_pete06
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In reply to cledus6150 • 1:08p, 5/12/22
AG
cledus6150 said:
Lots of entertainment going on….I do agree with the differing opinions on teeth aging and only way to truly know is to send off to a lab.


That's why the aging has been pushed down to the collective group. You send pictures off to the chat and if the majority agree he is old enough, the hunter takes him out. Obviously teeth is not the sure method and in reality, lab work is the only accurate method to age the deer.
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joerobert_pete06
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In reply to texAZtea • 1:09p, 5/12/22
AG
texAZtea said:
If that's a big enough area that you think trophy deer will stay mostly inside of your allotment, why would the lease syndicate get tore up about someone not providing ample protein in their area?

It wouldn't affect me if I put out enough feed. Hell, it might even bring your bucks to my area if you don't.


…. And so this encourages everyone to supplement feed in the off season
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agsalaska
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1:14p, 5/12/22
AG
So how many trophies are shot by day hunters that are not on the lease?
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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cledus6150
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In reply to agsalaska • 1:18p, 5/12/22
AG
That is a good question that has been conveniently avoided by those on the lease.
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agsalaska
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1:18p, 5/12/22
AG
This thread made me think of something funny an uncle said to me last year. We hunt family land.

I texted him 'I can't tell how many points this buck has.'

Uncle replied 'It will be easier to count them when he is lying in the dirt'



We wouldn't make it a day on this lease.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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montanagriz
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In reply to joerobert_pete06 • 1:26p, 5/12/22
S
joerobert_pete06 said:
texAZtea said:
If that's a big enough area that you think trophy deer will stay mostly inside of your allotment, why would the lease syndicate get tore up about someone not providing ample protein in their area?

It wouldn't affect me if I put out enough feed. Hell, it might even bring your bucks to my area if you don't.


…. And so this encourages everyone to supplement feed in the off season


That and the rule if your feeder is empty for 2 weeks you lose your trophy tag. Since you have a week to fill your feeder after being notified.

It would be better just to charge a fee to hire someone to keep feeders full year round or charge a fee but to take the 9k plus trophy away seems excessive. What if a guy had a family illness and couldn't get out there for a month?

"We mandate early spring to early fall supplemental feeding. Cotton seed and/or protein pellets must be in place by March 1st through Aug.1st continually through that time period, or you forfeit the right to shoot your trophy. If you are not compliant then you forfeit the right to shoot a trophy deer. Once you are notified that you are not compliant you have a week to become compliant. Your trophy must be shot from your blind."
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HookThis
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1:32p, 5/12/22
AG
Shakespeare said it best bro, "thou dost protest too much "
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joerobert_pete06
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In reply to agsalaska • 1:34p, 5/12/22
AG
agsalaska said:
So how many trophies are shot by day hunters that are not on the lease?


By day hunters you mean non-lease hunters, the answer is none….. not sure who or when that lie was thrown out there.

There is a 1 week period during the year where the owner comes out to hunt but they have their dedicated areas. Keep in mind we are talking about a 20k acre ranch and also the whole family have triple that divided between siblings.
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agsalaska
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In reply to cledus6150 • 1:34p, 5/12/22
AG
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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agsalaska
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In reply to joerobert_pete06 • 1:36p, 5/12/22
AG
joerobert_pete06 said:
agsalaska said:
So how many trophies are shot by day hunters that are not on the lease?


By day hunters you mean non-lease hunters, the answer is none….. not sure who or when that lie was thrown out there.

There is a 1 week period during the year where the owner comes out to hunt but they have their dedicated areas. Keep in mind we are talking about a 20k acre ranch and also the whole family have triple that divided between siblings.
It wasn't a lie. It was a question. Not a statement. And after being asked and ignored several times it became a fair assumption.

But I do appreciate the answer. That clears things up.
The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you never know if they are genuine. -- Abraham Lincoln.



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johnrth
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In reply to montanagriz • 1:37p, 5/12/22
montanagriz said:
joerobert_pete06 said:
I think you guys are ignoring the fact that each hunter essentially has a ~1k acre area for themselves that they claim at the start of each season


But limited to only hunting within a few yards of designated feeding station. Not a true 1k acres to hunt as you want


You skipped explaining this one....
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montanagriz
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In reply to agsalaska • 1:47p, 5/12/22
S
agsalaska said:
joerobert_pete06 said:
agsalaska said:
So how many trophies are shot by day hunters that are not on the lease?


By day hunters you mean non-lease hunters, the answer is none….. not sure who or when that lie was thrown out there.

There is a 1 week period during the year where the owner comes out to hunt but they have their dedicated areas. Keep in mind we are talking about a 20k acre ranch and also the whole family have triple that divided between siblings.
It wasn't a lie. It was a question. Not a statement. And after being asked and ignored several times it became a fair assumption.

But I do appreciate the answer. That clears things up.


Plus the hero hunt the weekend before Thanksgiving where people will hunt out of your stand but maybe they hunt the designated family area.

The hero hunt is actually a cool gesture
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RikkiTikkaTagem
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In reply to joerobert_pete06 • 2:27p, 5/12/22
AG
joerobert_pete06 said:
RikkiTikkaTagem said:
Can we see a picture of "your buck"? The buck that when you see a picture of it come across the GroupMe, you would tell the two new guys who are starting the lease this year, "You can't shoot that buck. It's mine."


How will the buck be 'mine' when he is bedded in his area and feeding at his feed station?


I don't know. Look at your lease agreement

Quote:
It is best practice not to harvest a buck the first time you see it. History plays a big role in the approval process. If a deer shows up for the first time it likely means it lives somewhere else and that hunter has chosen not to harvest. Sharing pics with the group is very helpful and encouraged.

Trophy Bucks- All Trophy deer must be approved before harvesting by Brad Jerry and Mitch. Text or Email good pics of the deer to Brad, Jerry, Mitch, If you do not follow the approval process then we have nothing other to go by but teeth.


Sure sounds like other hunters have dibs on deer.
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joerobert_pete06
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In reply to johnrth • 2:31p, 5/12/22
AG
johnrth said:
montanagriz said:
joerobert_pete06 said:
I think you guys are ignoring the fact that each hunter essentially has a ~1k acre area for themselves that they claim at the start of each season


But limited to only hunting within a few yards of designated feeding station. Not a true 1k acres to hunt as you want


You skipped explaining this one....


Correct. You may be in an area where you can put your blind on a 4-way or you are overlooking a giant pipeline, your visibility will vary. Most hunters have set up fed stations around their main blind, usually 200yards away and so you have a 400yard circular area. Depending on your area, you may have visibility past your fed station and what not so it varies. You may decide to set up a ground blind on the other side of your feed station to watch a different crossing but again, each hunter have different setups but ultimately everyone has 1 main blind.

I threw 1k acres out there considering the spacing between hunters and the ability to attract deer from bedding areas farther away
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texAZtea
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In reply to joerobert_pete06 • 4:07p, 5/12/22
AG
joerobert_pete06 said:
texAZtea said:
If that's a big enough area that you think trophy deer will stay mostly inside of your allotment, why would the lease syndicate get tore up about someone not providing ample protein in their area?

It wouldn't affect me if I put out enough feed. Hell, it might even bring your bucks to my area if you don't.


…. And so this encourages everyone to supplement feed in the off season
Yeah that doesn't answer my question.

Either:
The hunting allotments are so large that there is very little crossover in deer and you should be able to shoot a monster buck you see for the first time at your stand because it lives in your allotment (which is against the lease agreement since someone else probably let it walk, as per the lease agreement). If this is true, it shouldn't matter to anyone else if I'm feeding in the off season or not since the deer in my allotment fairly well stay in my allotment (no one else's protein is going towards my trophy).

Or:
The hunting allotments aren't so large that there is little crossover, and if you take off your baby pants and shoot the buck you are seeing for the first time you might be shooting a buck that someone else has been feeding and watching for years.

You can't have lots that are large enough that the deer stay mostly in your lot but small enough that deer don't stay mostly in your lot. It's probably the second, since your lease agreement has all of those rules about everyone contributing feed, and the triumvirate having to approve your kill before you skin the buck, as stated in your lease agreement.

What it sounds like is you're an old timer on the lease and have had things go your way here and don't want to see some new guy mess up the sweet gig you've got and so you're willing to screw them over a little by having a say over what they can and can't shoot.

Or, you're the newcomer who bought the bs they fed you hook line and sinker and are defending it so hard because you're too embarrassed to admit you've been duped and are getting the short end of the stick while paying so much money.
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BlackGoldAg2011
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In reply to joerobert_pete06 • 5:06p, 5/12/22
AG
joerobert_pete06 said:
johnrth said:
montanagriz said:
joerobert_pete06 said:
I think you guys are ignoring the fact that each hunter essentially has a ~1k acre area for themselves that they claim at the start of each season


But limited to only hunting within a few yards of designated feeding station. Not a true 1k acres to hunt as you want


You skipped explaining this one....


Correct. You may be in an area where you can put your blind on a 4-way or you are overlooking a giant pipeline, your visibility will vary. Most hunters have set up fed stations around their main blind, usually 200yards away and so you have a 400yard circular area. Depending on your area, you may have visibility past your fed station and what not so it varies. You may decide to set up a ground blind on the other side of your feed station to watch a different crossing but again, each hunter have different setups but ultimately everyone has 1 main blind.

I threw 1k acres out there considering the spacing between hunters and the ability to attract deer from bedding areas farther away

So one blind with 200 yds avg sight line means you get to hunt 25.95 acres of that 1k acres…
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cheeky
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6:00p, 5/12/22
AG
Joe Bob…does every single lease member pay the exact same amount per year towards total lease costs e.g. the old timers with the premium picks pay the same as the new/last guy who got the one nobody else wanted?

If everyone pays the same, why not do a lottery each year? Not that hard to move a blind/feeder in the off-season.

Or how many of the old timers formed a consortium i.e. four guys pick the (best) 4 adjacent areas and share the hunting opportunity i.e. a lease within a lease. A has the lake with ducks, B has the best quail, C has the dove flyway, and D has the best fishing spots and A+B+C+D together control 4,000 acres of prime whitetail habitat that is off limits to the 16 other hunters paying the same amount for the less desirable locations. And oh yeah, that direction is "their" area and the other direction is the extra 16,000 acres that the rest of you have to drive through and on top of one another to get to and from the highway to the camp and your assigned spots.

I'll bet there is a sanctuary of sorts within the ranch completely controlled by the bell cows with minimal disturbance and the rest is a **** show with rules written to ensure that only the old timers are guaranteed a good time/value. I don't think Joe Bob is in that group, but he's been around long enough (or had a spot passed on to him) that he's now on the winning side of this deal. Every new guy is screwed with poorer value, excessive oversight and geographical prejudice with little to no access to the full array of wildlife available on the ranch.

There is a reason this lease loses hunters every year or two. I do hope that other lease members will come forward to continue to share their points of view. Please include #years on lease, your number in the pecking order, how much your lease spot costs in 2022, and the highest scoring whitetail you have harvested in the past 2 years. TIA
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AggieJames09
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7:01p, 5/12/22
AG
I've kept pretty quiet but, the best rule of all that has not been mentioned is the ranch must kill x amount of does and cull bucks before being allowed to trophy hunt. Then, even though you are MLD you must stop trophy hunting when Jerry says so. Last year he cut off trophy hunting January 16.

I hunted a different concentration camp Pasture of the same ranch, ran by same Biologist. We were required to kill 22 does and 6 culls before being allowed to trophy hunt. I shot my 2 does early October (11 members total on lease, each got 2) then I shot my dream deer late October when he walked out. I was not going to wait all season for other members to kill their 2 required does when my target buck was completely broken up last year by thanksgiving and not seen in person last two seasons.

If I would of played by all rules I would of not been able to shoot my trophy until December 1. (Old timers could not get their two Does killed until then). I hear that rule is changing this year but that was the rules last year.

I only made it two seasons before bailing. Best deer and bird hunting I've ever been fortunate enough to hunt, but was not worth the drama. O and no one tried keeping my deer's antlers. That would of been fun!

There is a reason a ranch that constantly produces low fence 170 plus deer, world class bird hunting, fairly priced has openings every single season.

It's funny how the guys running these ranches are suppose to all be conservative, anti government, hate our politics... then treat our favorite heritage and hobby like all the people they preach to hate and disagree with in office.
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Aggie Hunter
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In reply to AggieJames09 • 7:14p, 5/12/22
AG
Well said……would someone please inform me who the biologist is?
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giddings_ag_06
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In reply to Aggie Hunter • 7:27p, 5/12/22
AG
King Jerry Mitch Brad.

People in power love control and telling others what to do and when there's no one above them, they have power trips. This lease sounds miserable as do the people running it. You want to know why hunting is shrinking as a past time? Well, dictators taking money and putting extreme rules in places that take most of the fun out is one of the main reasons. Can't people just hunt?


Jeez…. there's less state laws for deer hunting than rules you have to follow to even make it into your deer stand at this hell hole.
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SanAntoneAg
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8:42p, 5/12/22
AG
Do Jerry, Brad and Mitch have to unanimously pre-approve a trophy kill?

What if two approve but the other is having a bad day and says no?
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AgDad121619
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In reply to Steeltoe05 • 8:43p, 5/12/22
AG
Steeltoe05 said:
I'm not interested in joining the lease, but sure would enjoy getting added to the GroupMe to see it all unfold.

That could be almost as entertaining as this thread.

" we don't approve - our X ray vision could see 5.5 year old teeth. Which stand were you at again and which direction did it come in from? And if you don't mind, morning or evening hunt?
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AggieJames09
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In reply to SanAntoneAg • 8:56p, 5/12/22
AG
Funny story from last season. I had a very well known deer at my stand for two years. He was a solid buck that I was extremely confident in being post mature. I sent a video and probably ten pics of him to biologist saying I have this deer at 7 plus Years old.
He responded, "You May be right but based on those pictures I have him at 4 or 5 wouldn't hurt to let him go."

I tried sharing pics all the time but most our lease members were not great with cell phones, pics, texting... I had to talk about that deer 50 times....

He wondered off during the rut and went to an old guys blind on our lease. He sent one pic of same deer to biologist and got the "shoot him text, he's old".

He shot the deer I passed countless times and teeth aged at 8 plus. I was Very happy for him, no BS but all I could do was laugh.

Absolute clown world you have to depend on a guy looking at pics on the toilet on his little cell phone to age a deer better then yourself with 25 years of hunting your butt off in the brush country studying these deer every weekend with countless trail cam pics.
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RikkiTikkaTagem
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In reply to AgDad121619 • 9:00p, 5/12/22
AG
AgDad121619 said:
Steeltoe05 said:
I'm not interested in joining the lease, but sure would enjoy getting added to the GroupMe to see it all unfold.

That could be almost as entertaining as this thread.

" we don't approve - our X ray vision could see 5.5 year old teeth. Which stand were you at again and which direction did it come in from? And if you don't mind, morning or evening hunt?


And sometime in January when they shut it down for the year but prior to the end of the season, the owners will have huge amounts of data where all the trophies are. Its insane. People pay a large amount of money and put in a huge amount of time and effort to the owners who then get to kill the best of the best at the end of the year.
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Centerpole90
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9:02p, 5/12/22
AG
If there was ever a thread that made me wish NW80 was still with us.


This one would have been worth at least 4 calls so he could read me what he posted.
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RikkiTikkaTagem
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In reply to AggieJames09 • 9:03p, 5/12/22
AG
Did the old guy not post the deer to the GroupMe like it says in the agreement prior to shooting the buck you've been following for two years?
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joerobert_pete06
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In reply to texAZtea • 9:03p, 5/12/22
AG
texAZtea said:
joerobert_pete06 said:
texAZtea said:
If that's a big enough area that you think trophy deer will stay mostly inside of your allotment, why would the lease syndicate get tore up about someone not providing ample protein in their area?

It wouldn't affect me if I put out enough feed. Hell, it might even bring your bucks to my area if you don't.


…. And so this encourages everyone to supplement feed in the off season
Yeah that doesn't answer my question.

Either:
The hunting allotments are so large that there is very little crossover in deer and you should be able to shoot a monster buck you see for the first time at your stand because it lives in your allotment (which is against the lease agreement since someone else probably let it walk, as per the lease agreement). If this is true, it shouldn't matter to anyone else if I'm feeding in the off season or not since the deer in my allotment fairly well stay in my allotment (no one else's protein is going towards my trophy).

Or:
The hunting allotments aren't so large that there is little crossover, and if you take off your baby pants and shoot the buck you are seeing for the first time you might be shooting a buck that someone else has been feeding and watching for years.

You can't have lots that are large enough that the deer stay mostly in your lot but small enough that deer don't stay mostly in your lot. It's probably the second, since your lease agreement has all of those rules about everyone contributing feed, and the triumvirate having to approve your kill before you skin the buck, as stated in your lease agreement.

What it sounds like is you're an old timer on the lease and have had things go your way here and don't want to see some new guy mess up the sweet gig you've got and so you're willing to screw them over a little by having a say over what they can and can't shoot.

Or, you're the newcomer who bought the bs they fed you hook line and sinker and are defending it so hard because you're too embarrassed to admit you've been duped and are getting the short end of the stick while paying so much money.


Bruh you are thinking to hard about it. You guys are asking me questions about the lease and I'm giving you my time to answer them

I have a family to spend time with now and prepare to head out to the lease tomorrow to shoot some pigs.
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ttha_aggie_09
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In reply to Centerpole90 • 9:05p, 5/12/22
 
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