Gunny456 said:

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So what about being able to access poaching operations or deer breeder violations that landowners are aware of?

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Rep Curry has filed a bill that will fix that too. He wants to take away TPWD's deer breeder permit and allow anybody with an 8' or taller fence to be a deer breeder, regulated as an "agricultural activity". Meaning deer behind high fences will officially be livestock, not game animals.

Thank you.

Gunny456 said:

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As a ranch owner for 35 years i never broke any laws or did anything wrong that would make me worry about a GW being able to access my property.
I have instances that I'm glad he could access my property to catch bad guys.
No game warden or TPWD ever abused the right to come on my land… quite to the contrary… I welcomed them.
I would have to ask…. Who would be of most benefit as a landowner to prohibit a GW from coming onto your land without a warrant and looking around?

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I would agree completly, we always invite our game warden on the property when we are hunting. I would want him to be able to access the property when not there because we have had issues with people hunting illegally on the property.

That's why I asked the question of who stands to benefit from this law the most….law abiding person or criminal?

Yes sir.

Spot on. I used to do ride-alongs with wardens in our area. They let lots of folks off with just verbal warnings and had lots more patience than I would ever have.
I can give many examples of leasee's or landowners locking their gates so wardens could not get in and knowingly breaking game laws and thinking they were safe cause their gates were locked….. but unless the warden had a tip or had a complaint they would not arbitrarily cut locks to just drive into places.
As my dad used to say ….. "honest folks don't need laws but criminals sure like some of them."

txags92 said:

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Gunny456 said:

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This was what point I was trying to make. This is a law to prohibit something that is not really being abused imho. I have been ranching basically all my life and landowner of one as well. I have absolutely no knowledge of any rancher I know that has rights abused by a GW.
All this will do is impact our fish and wildlife negatively.. and burden an already undermanned enforcement agency.

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I would suspect that those with the big dramatic stories of locks being cut and wardens throwing their weight around belligerently either are not being honest with us or themselves about something they did to provoke the behavior or are unaware that something they did provoked it. My experiences with game wardens is that most of them are far more patient and forgiving than I would be in the situations they find themselves dealing with. But if you abuse or try that patience, it can come to an end in a hurry and FAFO gets applied.

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There from other state's, but these cases may have inspired the bill:

https://reason.com/2022/07/28/pennsylvania-poaching-police-warrantlessly-installed-camera-on-private-land-to-surveil-hunting-club/

https://ij.org/ll/trained-to-trespass-louisiana-game-wardens-snoop-around-private-land/

txags92 said:

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Gunny456 said:

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So what about being able to access poaching operations or deer breeder violations that landowners are aware of?

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Rep Curry has filed a bill that will fix that too. He wants to take away TPWD's deer breeder permit and allow anybody with an 8' or taller fence to be a deer breeder, regulated as an "agricultural activity". Meaning deer behind high fences will officially be livestock, not game animals.

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Which one is this one?

I have mixed feelings about this.

1) I don't think anyone should be able to enter private property without permission. Especially a governmental agency looking to punish you for something you may
Or may not have done. I'm all about limiting govt power.

2) As mentioned previously many many times, the people who are committing crimes are the ones who will benefit the most here, imo greatly outweigh the inconvenience of an entry and search without a warrant. Example: few years ago, game warden showed up on opening weekend at owned property . He had to go through 2 gates without permission. We had harvested 2 deer, which were in various stages of dressing. He immediately said "well, it's not why I'm here, but because I am here, need to check out your tags and licenses. But finish what you're doing, don't rush or stop." He then proceeded to tell us he had caught some guys poaching / road hunting right outside the property and suspected that they had probably entered the property at some point. Suggested that we should put some cameras on the gates if we could and it would help and/or prevent future prosecutions, and to let us know that he would probably be coming by from time to time to check on poachers. We finished with the deer, cleaned up, he checked tags and licenses, and was on his way. He thanked us for having licenses and tagging our deer properly. I fail to see how any of this is somehow impinging upon rights as an American or land owner. Again, I am a HUGE proponent of warrants, limits on govt powers, preventing illegal search and seizures. I just can't see why anyone would be against a game warden entering a property. And before anyone says it, it's always been this way, it's not a slippery slope to no warrants and martial law.

CivilEng08 said:

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txags92 said:

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Gunny456 said:

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So what about being able to access poaching operations or deer breeder violations that landowners are aware of?

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Rep Curry has filed a bill that will fix that too. He wants to take away TPWD's deer breeder permit and allow anybody with an 8' or taller fence to be a deer breeder, regulated as an "agricultural activity". Meaning deer behind high fences will officially be livestock, not game animals.

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Which one is this one?

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HB 3607

The old GWs in Webb county were lifers there, part of the community, and just good folks. They are all gone now. Webb county is a tough place for the new GWs families to assimilate, thus we have a revolving door . The current guys are great, but the previous one was horrible.
I'll always welcome them any time, to look around. We are on some kind of migration path for anyone coming from Mx, and they are patrolling that as well.
Back in the day we offered them a bed, a meal, a tank of fuel for coming way out to us. I still would.

Edit to add one situation I have found myself in. There are some dipsheets in the family that like to bait for Duck and Dove. I don't. So following week after they been there, I go to my favorite water hole or dove field to hunt. I know that there is a possibility of bait still on the ground. To steer clear of these areas pretty much eliminates any hunting on my part.

Also on baiting, as I understand the law hunting on any property with corn feeders is considered baiting. I do have feeders within 1/4 mile of my favorite field and stock tank. I always run Milo along with corn in feeders year round to help out Quail. As I understand it that is illegal, but a dumb law. Previous GW, that wrecked his state truck while FUI, is no longer there but would have thrown the book at me. Current ones I think would use come common sense. Maybe not, I think they looking for a transfer out of here.

Capt. Augustus McCrae said:

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Limiting government is never a bad thing. The "I've never had anybody do anything to me, so I don't see a problem with it" crowd just haven't added "yet" to their sentence.

What's wrong with getting a warrant? If you invite them onto your property to see something suspicious, they don't need a warrant. Otherwise, the 4th amendment protects you from this exact behavior.

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How do you get a warrant with probable cause to prove that somebody is hunting out of season and killing dozens of deer beyond their bag limits on a 3,000 acre property where you can't see their camphouse or processing area from the road? How do you get a warrant with probable cause that people are hunting dove over a baited field without being able to go look for bait in the field?

I have not heard of one instance of game warden abuse - maybe some inconveniences. I've had them check licenses while hunting - and frankly I was glad they were out there doing their job. If you want to protect certain things - you may have to give up some freedoms to do so. This would hurt law abiding citizens and help those that are not.

If the warden has probable cause to investigate any poaching operation then getting a warrant, regardless of landowner's knowledge or permission, should be easy and justifiable.

Bottom line: this is not about solving an active issue. Instead this is leveraging fear to attract votes for unrelated items.

I would imagine the use of drones will increase if this passes.