Attached is the video of findings of the investigation on the above event. If you watch till the end they go over what factors did not cause the accident and what was the cause deemed by the investigation. There was a discussion back in April on the OB about this tragic event so thought I would post this for information.
Bass Angler Indicted by Grand Jury for April Boating Accident. Video for Information
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Last: 3 mo ago by Gunny456
How in the hell did he not see that other boat?
Probably staring at an 18 inch screen...or 2 on his console
Or had 2 installed on bow for live scope and couldn't see over them
What a shame
Or had 2 installed on bow for live scope and couldn't see over them
What a shame
Or from looking at or using his phone which was the deemed cause for 3275 traffic deaths last year.
Yes sir. I feel great sorrow for the victims families and the young angler. Both his life and theirs is forever changed in so many ways.
I can't say I agree with the assault charge but the other charges I fully agree with. I am quite sure he was looking at his phone and it ended 3 people's lives and hurt 2 others. He should be held accountable.
Think I saw the guy originally said it was foggy and he was coming around a corner and didnt see them.....video called BS on both of those.
ought1ag said:
Think I saw the guy originally said it was foggy and he was coming around a corner and didnt see them.....video called BS on both of those.
I think I remember something about that also. That statement is not going to do him any favors and it shouldn't.
Wasn't the angler who said that if I remember correctly. It was a bunch of internet/forum guys doing the typical "expert" speculations….jumping the gun.
I agree 1000%. However deaths happen daily from texting or cell phone use in auto's. The same accountability should apply both ways but historically that hasn't applied much in auto cases.
Gunny456 said:
Wasn't the angler who said that if I remember correctly. It was a bunch of internet/forum guys doing the typical "expert" speculations….jumping the gun.
No shortage of those around
Gunny456
Joined:
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How long do you want to ignore this user?
I'll let you flex some Gunny AI...
Inattention=looking at his phone?
No proper lookout. Is this really a requirement? Does this mean you can't operate a vessel alone?
What "rules of the road" were violated?
The modern bass boat allows for little operator vision. Especially w/ huge multiple screens and basically sitting on your ass in the back of the boat w/ engine trimmed up and you can't see over the bow w/ more multiple screens.
Hit a CC w/ what looked like a tall bimini.
They said excessive speed wasn't a factor.
67mph on the water is insane...
Inattention=looking at his phone?
No proper lookout. Is this really a requirement? Does this mean you can't operate a vessel alone?
What "rules of the road" were violated?
The modern bass boat allows for little operator vision. Especially w/ huge multiple screens and basically sitting on your ass in the back of the boat w/ engine trimmed up and you can't see over the bow w/ more multiple screens.
Hit a CC w/ what looked like a tall bimini.
They said excessive speed wasn't a factor.
67mph on the water is insane...
67 is fast for sure. But I disagree that you can't see. I run a bass boat weekly and there is no issue with seeing where you are going. And yes I do have two decent sized graphs on the front. The kid wasn't paying attention and just messed up in a bad way.
Still a flawed design. You are basically driving a go cart. Seat is on the floor.
The trend in bay boats elevates the operator in captains chairs that are basically race seats. You are looking down on your screens.
If the "kid" was not paying attention, then what was he doing?
I find it hard to believe you can look at your phone at 67mph. Even in calm conditions. I've tried it at 39 and it ain't easy.
A combo of speed, visibility and screen distraction has to be the problem.
We have speed limits on roads.
Why not on lakes?
The trend in bay boats elevates the operator in captains chairs that are basically race seats. You are looking down on your screens.
If the "kid" was not paying attention, then what was he doing?
I find it hard to believe you can look at your phone at 67mph. Even in calm conditions. I've tried it at 39 and it ain't easy.
A combo of speed, visibility and screen distraction has to be the problem.
We have speed limits on roads.
Why not on lakes?
At running attitudes graphs mounted on the bow are not typically high enough to block driver vision. Most brands have tall enough driver and passenger seats to easily see over even the tallest graphs mounted on the consoles by normal body size operators. Skeeter, Ranger, Nitro, Phoenix, Bass Cat, Icon, Caymas and Vexus have drivers and passenger seats that sit relatively high for comfort.
The only bass boats brands that you sit low to the floor are ultra performance boats like Gambler, Stroker, and Alison's. …
In the current marine market segments……including pontoon and tritoons, PWC's, (Wave Runners, Jet Skis, Sea Doo's) some wake boat brands, offshore center consoles, flats bay boats, some runabout brands, deep v pleasure boats, many aluminum boat brands, multi species boats(Walleye boats) and yes, bass boat brands all have the capability of obtaining 60 plus mph.
Thousands of the watercraft mentioned above are on the lakes, bays, inland and offshore waterways and rivers on any given weekend in the U.S.
The greatest number of collision accidents occurring on waterways within the U.S. involves PWC's.
Any accident that involves loss of life is tragic for sure. But statistics show that for the actual number of watercraft on U.S. waterways, the accident rate of injury or fatality accidents is very low.
We kill around 3700 people a year on highways in the U.S. from using cell phones…..yet there isn't a F150, or Suburban on the highways that does not have the capability to run 90 mph or better.
The only bass boats brands that you sit low to the floor are ultra performance boats like Gambler, Stroker, and Alison's. …
In the current marine market segments……including pontoon and tritoons, PWC's, (Wave Runners, Jet Skis, Sea Doo's) some wake boat brands, offshore center consoles, flats bay boats, some runabout brands, deep v pleasure boats, many aluminum boat brands, multi species boats(Walleye boats) and yes, bass boat brands all have the capability of obtaining 60 plus mph.
Thousands of the watercraft mentioned above are on the lakes, bays, inland and offshore waterways and rivers on any given weekend in the U.S.
The greatest number of collision accidents occurring on waterways within the U.S. involves PWC's.
Any accident that involves loss of life is tragic for sure. But statistics show that for the actual number of watercraft on U.S. waterways, the accident rate of injury or fatality accidents is very low.
We kill around 3700 people a year on highways in the U.S. from using cell phones…..yet there isn't a F150, or Suburban on the highways that does not have the capability to run 90 mph or better.
Seats aren't on the floor Gator. You need to go look at the boats and go sit in them at the next boat show in your area. Boats built under the guidelines of the NMMA (and most every bass boat brand does) have to meet visibility standards. The modern bass boat seats are not that much lower than how most folks sit in their cars.
You can see much better by far out of most bass boats than you can out of many cars and trucks on the road today.
Impairment of visibility was shown not to be a factor. Being non attentive was.
You can see much better by far out of most bass boats than you can out of many cars and trucks on the road today.
Impairment of visibility was shown not to be a factor. Being non attentive was.
Gunny AI defending the industry. I get it and I'm safer on the water than on the road.
But...
A rational person can agree these bass rigs have gotten out of hand. Nobody needs to go 67mph on a inland lake.
I could make exceptions in areas of some the larger lakes in TX. Texoma, Sabine, Sam Rayburn and Amistad.
All others, not so much.
Also, what is the lookout requirement as stated in the video you shared as a reason for the accident?
But...
A rational person can agree these bass rigs have gotten out of hand. Nobody needs to go 67mph on a inland lake.
I could make exceptions in areas of some the larger lakes in TX. Texoma, Sabine, Sam Rayburn and Amistad.
All others, not so much.
Also, what is the lookout requirement as stated in the video you shared as a reason for the accident?
The look out is the boat driver. If you're looking ahead it is unlikely you are going to run into something, especially a big ass boat. I don't know what he was doing but he wasn't paying attention. How often do you drive a boat?
I started driving a boat as soon as I could pull the rope and start a 10hp outboard.
Many, many hours since...
Many, many hours since...
I also assisted my local Fire Department during Hurricane Harvey.
I evacuated over 50 people and several dogs from 2a to 9p.
My boat took a beating, but the kids I evacuated were worth it...
I evacuated over 50 people and several dogs from 2a to 9p.
My boat took a beating, but the kids I evacuated were worth it...
Gator92 said:
I started driving a boat as soon as I could pull the rope and start a 10hp outboard.
Many, many hours since...
Any time in a bass boat? I still agree 67 is a little too fast but I'll admit there are times I do it. It is very clear in the video that the bass boat is not out of control. Some boats are made to travel that fast. It's just like a car in that it's safe to go that speed as long as you're paying attention to what you are doing. I have zero doubt that him hitting that boat wasn't because his graph was in the way.
docb said:Gator92 said:
I started driving a boat as soon as I could pull the rope and start a 10hp outboard.
Many, many hours since...
Any time in a bass boat?
Nope. Only Jons and CC's
But, you cannot deny that a CC has better visibility.
Bass rigs w/ insane hp and low visibility is a recipe for disaster...
A lot of things are a recipe for disaster if not used properly.
Gator. I always enjoy your post sir. I started in the marine boat world at 16 yo racing smaller outboards. Evolved over the many years to using larger boats with more horsepower using mainly Alison and HydroStream hulls in circle race classes of the APBA…. and did some outboard drag boat racing as well. In 1980 went to work for a bass boat manufacturer in Arkansas. About 11 years later changed to another company that builds bass, center console and multi species boats….I still mess with and run high performance boats and stay involved in the performance boat industry to this day.
Frankly 67 isn't fast in today's marine industry as a whole. With that being said, most bass boat manufacturers have gone the trend of building longer and heavier boats ( A typical 21'bass boat will have a hull weight, less engines and interior, exceeding 2400 lbs.) This trend over the last few years has resulted in bass boat top end speeds to be much slower as compared to bass boats in previous years. The heavier weights also increase the quality of the ride and the longevity of the boats……which has become more important to the average bass angler than top end speeds. As I said in the above post, most all segments of the marine industry have products that obtain 60 plus mph……not just bass boats.
You mentioned the trend in flats boats and the pedestal bolster seats and sitting high up in those seats. The trend in the flats boats segment of the boat industry right now is building extremely light and fast boats. Many of the brands built along the Texas coast have 22'-23' boats that only weigh 1300-1400 lbs.
In comparison, that's 1200 lbs less than a typical 21' bass boat, even though they are considerably longer in length.
None of those flats boats over 20' 1" have maximum horse power ratings, so everyone is hanging high performance outboards of 300 to 500 hp on them. They can exceed the 80 mph mark in top speed (albeit most owners of them can, in no way, drive them to those speeds) and most don't adhere to any of the NMMA safety, handling or construction certification standards.
The speeds they can obtain ( in a straight line) make today's bass boats look slow…..albeit you don't dare try to turn one at those top end speeds….lest you want to come out of those high bucket seats.
Frankly 67 isn't fast in today's marine industry as a whole. With that being said, most bass boat manufacturers have gone the trend of building longer and heavier boats ( A typical 21'bass boat will have a hull weight, less engines and interior, exceeding 2400 lbs.) This trend over the last few years has resulted in bass boat top end speeds to be much slower as compared to bass boats in previous years. The heavier weights also increase the quality of the ride and the longevity of the boats……which has become more important to the average bass angler than top end speeds. As I said in the above post, most all segments of the marine industry have products that obtain 60 plus mph……not just bass boats.
You mentioned the trend in flats boats and the pedestal bolster seats and sitting high up in those seats. The trend in the flats boats segment of the boat industry right now is building extremely light and fast boats. Many of the brands built along the Texas coast have 22'-23' boats that only weigh 1300-1400 lbs.
In comparison, that's 1200 lbs less than a typical 21' bass boat, even though they are considerably longer in length.
None of those flats boats over 20' 1" have maximum horse power ratings, so everyone is hanging high performance outboards of 300 to 500 hp on them. They can exceed the 80 mph mark in top speed (albeit most owners of them can, in no way, drive them to those speeds) and most don't adhere to any of the NMMA safety, handling or construction certification standards.
The speeds they can obtain ( in a straight line) make today's bass boats look slow…..albeit you don't dare try to turn one at those top end speeds….lest you want to come out of those high bucket seats.
Gunny456 said:
Gator. I always enjoy your post. I started in the marine boat world at 16 yo racing outboards. Went to TAM and was out of it a while, but then graduated and came back to home and started racing again, albeit on a very small budget. I moved up to a higher horsepower class in the APBA … using mainly Alison and HydroStream hulls in circle races and did some outboard drag boat racing as well. In 1980 went to work for a bass boat manufacturer in Arkansas. Later changed to another company that builds bass, center console and multi species boats….I still mess with and run high performance boats and stay involved in the performance boat industry to this day.
Frankly 67 isn't fast in today's marine industry as a whole. With that being said most bass boat manufacturers have gone the trend of building heavier boats ( A typical 21'bass boat will have a hull weight, less engines and interior, exceeding 2400 lbs.) and have slowed the top speeds of the boats down. The higher weights increase the quality of the ride and the longevity of the boats. As I said in the above post, most all segments of the marine industry have products that obtain 60 plus mph.
You mentioned the trend in flats boats and the pedestal bolster seats and sitting high up in those seats. The trend in the flats boats segment is building extremely light and fast boats. Many of the brands built along the Texas coast have 22'-23' boats that only weigh 1300-1400 lbs.
That's 1200 lbs less than a 21' bass boat!
None of them have max horse power ratings so everyone is hanging high performance outboards of 300 to 500 hp on them. They can exceed the 80 mph mark (but most owners of them can in no way drive them to those speeds) and most don't adhere to any of the NMMA safety, handling or construction standards.
The speeds they can obtain ( in a straight line) make today's bass boats look slow…..albeit you don't dare try to turn one at those top end speeds….lest you want to come out of those high bucket seats.
Yep. A guide just died in Baffin a few days ago driving one of those CC. Ran into a pier.
Gator. Bass boats have great visibility. Not everyone runs 18" graphs on their consoles. I own a 20' bass boat and a 23' center console. Running both at top end I have equal visibility. The CC can run 60. The bass boat much faster. I am safer in the bass boat at top end than the CC because, regardless of the type of seats in the CC, I am sitting much higher…and the center of mass and gravity in the CC, with the elevated floor and console, is so much higher…. that if the boat would ever lose control in a turn or hitting an object, I am much more apt to be thrown from that taller position than the lower center of gravity of the bass boat.
Part of my job with the boat builders I worked for was to test drive the boats. Pushing them to their limits in top speed and turning and handling ability to reach certification. I would much rather test the bass boats than the CC's because of those facts above any day.
Tell you what. Come be my guest at our place and I'll take you out in both boats and you can see for yourself what I'm talking about. We will have some fun and good times, talk some good bull and wet a line or two….and the wife and I will feed you good also. I can't guarantee we will catch any fish. I'm better at driving boats than catching fish out of them.
Part of my job with the boat builders I worked for was to test drive the boats. Pushing them to their limits in top speed and turning and handling ability to reach certification. I would much rather test the bass boats than the CC's because of those facts above any day.
Tell you what. Come be my guest at our place and I'll take you out in both boats and you can see for yourself what I'm talking about. We will have some fun and good times, talk some good bull and wet a line or two….and the wife and I will feed you good also. I can't guarantee we will catch any fish. I'm better at driving boats than catching fish out of them.
On a closed course, I don't have any problem w/ drag boats.
Did you know Joe Rome? He owned Stafford Auto Parts and raced drag boats.
I got to know him at HLSR.
Did you know Joe Rome? He owned Stafford Auto Parts and raced drag boats.
I got to know him at HLSR.
Yes sir. Back in the 70's everybody who boat raced in Texas knew Joe Rome. One of the nicest, friendliest guys I ever met. He was one of the main guys with the old Lone Star Boat Racing Club. He really liked the outboard powered hydroplane boats of the day. (70's).
We had moved to the Ozarks and I found out he had passed because of a car wreck or such and did not know till it was too late to attend his funeral. I was not a close friend but if you were in racing in those days you were going to meet him somewhere.
We had moved to the Ozarks and I found out he had passed because of a car wreck or such and did not know till it was too late to attend his funeral. I was not a close friend but if you were in racing in those days you were going to meet him somewhere.
I heard he was looking at the guy catching the fish and not paying attention in front of him.
He had just come around a corner and didn't see the boat directly in front because he was looking to his left.
The graphs were not blocking vision. Either way it's a terrible situation.
He had just come around a corner and didn't see the boat directly in front because he was looking to his left.
The graphs were not blocking vision. Either way it's a terrible situation.
Joe was a great man. I got to know him later in his life w/ my involvement at HLSR.
He was a founding member of the Agricultural Mechanics Committee that I'm a member of to this day.
I miss him. He was a friend and mentor.
He was a founding member of the Agricultural Mechanics Committee that I'm a member of to this day.
I miss him. He was a friend and mentor.
Its simple captain negligence due to distraction.
Its not a boat or a speed or a bass fishing or a tournament issue. The captain was very experienced and very capable. He made a tragic mistake. Nothing else can be expound on here.
Www.gowithgrem.com
SGrem said:
Its simple captain negligence due to distraction.
It's not a boat or a speed or a bass fishing or a tournament issue. The captain was very experienced and very capable. He made a tragic mistake. Nothing else can be expound on here.
100%
Gator92 said:
The trend in bay boats elevates the operator in captains chairs that are basically race seats. You are looking down on your screens.
Exactly the opposite is happening. Everywhere I turn there's a new Mamba, Fat Cat, or Simmons with a 450R and a bubble console. Go follow Simmons Facebook page...you hardly see one come up with a raised console. About 2 years ago 2 guides were nearly killed doing 90 in a Shoalwater test hull in the ULM. Something like this is going to happen in the near future on the Bays
Snapped a quick pick yesterday to show my view with two graphs on the bow. I was only running in the mid 40s so the bow would be slightly up in mid 60s but still would be good visibility in front.
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