I'm telling y'all after hunting and owning a duck place in the Midwest for over a decade there isn't some grand conspiracy where the Midwest is hoarding and hammering ducks every day while the South suffers. Everyone thinks the entire state of Missouri looks like Habitat Flats and associated YouTube videos and that's just not the case. It's very much been a hit the flight days only kind of season for most the Midwest. It wasn't like that even 5 years ago.

Yes, it is absolutely true that the improved statewide habitat and warmer winters holds some more birds in the Midwest especially mallards. But as CS78 pointed out, hunting is down in the Midwest too. Kansas is trying to restrict non-resident hunting opportunities to address the problem as an example. South Dakota is a draw state now for waterfowl hunting. The other non-mallard species are not in the Midwest in big numbers. That just goes to show that total numbers are down or Texas should at least be full with gaddies and wigeon. Whistling ducks are further north than ever and BWT are getting shot late season. None of that is because Missouri is flooding corn.

Pressure is at an all time high while the resource is nearing recent decade lows. That's a bad combo. We have older, smarter birds and much fewer of them. That's a bad recipe for hunter success.

I fear it's going to be a tough couple of decades.

I'll be interested in hearing how the trip is. Hard to swing with young kids at home right now but that kind of trip is one I'm really interested in trying in the next few years.

Backcountry Birds said:

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I'm telling y'all after hunting and owning a duck place in the Midwest for over a decade there isn't some grand conspiracy where the Midwest is hoarding and hammering ducks every day while the South suffers. Everyone thinks the entire state of Missouri looks like Habitat Flats and associated YouTube videos and that's just not the case. It's very much been a hit the flight days only kind of season for most the Midwest. It wasn't like that even 5 years ago.

Yes, it is absolutely true that the improved statewide habitat and warmer winters holds some more birds in the Midwest especially mallards. But as CS78 pointed out, hunting is down in the Midwest too. Kansas is trying to restrict non-resident hunting opportunities to address the problem as an example. South Dakota is a draw state now for waterfowl hunting. The other non-mallard species are not in the Midwest in big numbers. That just goes to show that total numbers are down or Texas should at least be full with gaddies and wigeon. Whistling ducks are further north than ever and BWT are getting shot late season. None of that is because Missouri is flooding corn.

Pressure is at an all time high while the resource is nearing recent decade lows. That's a bad combo. We have older, smarter birds and much fewer of them. That's a bad recipe for hunter success.

I fear it's going to be a tough couple of decades.

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I think you and CS78 have hit on the issue- actual duck numbers are way down despite the "all is well" messaging from USFWS, DU, etc.

I'd be a lot more inclined to believe the complaints over flooded corn and so forth if a whole lot of the guides/outfitters in the Midwest I follow on social media weren't saying they're having a lot of rough days.

CS78 said:

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trip98 said:

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aggieland09 said:

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I'm in central Texas and I've had my worst year ever. I also note that I have seen a constant decline over the past 8 years. Every year seems worse. I wonder if the migration has shifted away from the legal season where there is not much overlap.

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same down here with us that hunt around Winnie. last year and this year take the cake. The previous years early teal saved the day.

I'm trying to think back how many winters we've had where kansas has frozen over a ton by mid to late December. Without it freezing the water up there they don't have much incentive to keep moving.

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90% of the non mallards are done migrating by Dec 1st. 90% of the mallards are done by Jan 1st. Satellite tracking this year showed the same thing again, regardless of weather.

We were in Kansas mid Dec and the back water and wetlands were frozen 3" thick. Nothing showed up on the big water or the rivers when that happened. And we spent days covering a lot of miles. There was no great push of ducks. It has thawed out since then.

We're heading back to Kansas this week. I don't have delusions of finding our missing ducks but am looking forward to the adventure and chance to hunt new places. Looks like itll be in the teens when we get there. A couple days above freezing and then back into the teens before we head home.

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great info
Like all things....there are several factors. I'm really thinking just the shear # of birds is down. Whatever surveys they do definitely aren't perfect and at best might be directionally accurate but still with a good bit of variability.

Then add on top the weather. Like you said, it might freeze which would definitely push birds out....but then when it thaws birds will sometimes come back in. That might be happening in Nebraska and north. If that happens in Kansas and Oklahoma what birds there are out there won't make it down to Texas...let alone the coast.

KWB said:

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I'll be interested in hearing how the trip is. Hard to swing with young kids at home right now but that kind of trip is one I'm really interested in trying in the next few years.

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We started going to Oklahoma about 10 years back. First time there, we launched the boat, ran 2 miles and jumped up 10,000 mallards. Three of us shot 45 greenheads over the next three days, in the same spot. And we never saw another hunter. It almost didnt seem real.



A lot has changed since then unfortunately. We went back to that same spot last year and there were people all over the place and no birds. Just like everywhere, the hunting has steadily declined while the pressure has steadily increased. The last two years, the out of state pressure has been off the charts and I totally understand why those states are trying to address it. Tons of young guys from LA, SC, GA, FL, AR showing up with pickup beds full of energy drinks. They bring the effort and gear that it takes to hunt their home states and apply that to these places. The locals that are used to waking up at 5am and walking down to the lake can't compete and are not happy about it. We now go for a minimum of 5 days just to have plenty of time to scout. We spend more time scouting than hunting but finding them is the fun part. Used to, we would pick a lake and stick to it and usually do well. Now, we might change locations every day or two. For me, it's still worth going but you need to have expectations in check. It's definitely not a case of drive 6-10 hours north and just shoot limits of mallards like it used to be.

I also just got back from southeast Arkansas this weekend. There were birds by the thousands….but it was also some of the best managed private land in the country for ducks. 10,000 acres of land with the sole purpose of creating a world class duck and quail habitat. Hundreds of acres of flooded corn and rice that is not touched the entire year.

We had 3 hunts and limited on all 3 with mostly mallards.

I have hunted a long time with another private outfitter outside Stuttgart and they consistently have crazy bird numbers because they steward their land well.

All this to say…My take on the lack of birds in the south central flyway has less to do with weather and absolutely everything to do with these giant private operations managing their land in a phenomenal way. I'm talking so much land managed so well that they are single handedly affecting the migration patterns in the central flyaway. It's frustrating for us public hunters and small private operations, but these huge private land owners are playing a big role in taking care of the ducks that we desire to hunt.

It's only going to get worse in my opinion. We have plenty of public land for ducks here in Texas, but it's essentially worthless in terms of lack of food resources and actual managed practices.