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City of College Station HUD Income Limits-First Responders

1,967 Views | 15 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by woodiewood
saturn135
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9:36a, 10/6/24
It is very sad to realize that our city first responders (Fire and Police) qualify for housing assistance in College Station for a family of 3 or 4. I value our first responders and believe they should be paid accordingly. Per City College Station's Salary and Benefits page, certified Police Officers start at $65,651 and Firefighter/EMTs start at $59,783. This has to majorly affect recruiting as no one would take a job in an area that could not support their basic needs: housing, utilities, food, transportation.

If first responder's are being paid so low, I can only assume all city employees are being paid a minimal wage. Target, Walmart, McDonalds, Costco are all offering comparable salaries. What went wrong? Why is the City so far behind?

This link shows income limits for HUD housing:

https://www.cstx.gov/departments___city_hall/commserv/development/grants/view_income_limits
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LOYAL AG
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9:52a, 10/6/24
AG
I don't disagree that Police and Fire should be paid more but none of the employers you listed are offering comparable pay for entry level jobs. That starting pay for firefighters is $28.74/hr. Those retail and fast food companies are probably around $15/hr at most to start out. A quick search at Target.com shows $15/hr for pretty much everything at their Target store. $15/hr is $31,200/year which is comparable.
A fearful society is a compliant society. That's why Democrats and criminals prefer their victims to be unarmed. Gun Control is not about guns, it's about control.
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CS78
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10:30a, 10/6/24
I don't see a problem with those starting pays. Both are a good bit higher than teacher starting pay and both will progress faster. Can't be many people that have a family of four when they are just getting started. And if they do, they probably have two incomes.

Also, many people want to work for the City of College Station because they know the problems here are relatively low. Crime is low for the police officers and homes are newer and less likely to catch fire for the firefighters.
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tu ag
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10:37a, 10/6/24
AG
I don't know a single person in fire / safety that doesn't work a 2nd job or OT to make substantially more $. That is part of why many take the jobs. The potential into make 6 digits annually is there.
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cslifer
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In reply to LOYAL AG • 1:40p, 10/6/24
Your calculations would be correct if they worked 2080 hours like a normal 8-5 office. They would 2900 hours so the hourly rate is significantly lower than your calculation.
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taxpreparer
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In reply to saturn135 • 1:48p, 10/6/24
AG
saturn135 said:
It is very sad to realize that our city first responders (Fire and Police) qualify for housing assistance in College Station for a family of 3 or 4. I value our first responders and believe they should be paid accordingly. Per City College Station's Salary and Benefits page, certified Police Officers start at $65,651 and Firefighter/EMTs start at $59,783. This has to majorly affect recruiting as no one would take a job in an area that could not support their basic needs: housing, utilities, food, transportation.

If first responder's are being paid so low, I can only assume all city employees are being paid a minimal wage. Target, Walmart, McDonalds, Costco are all offering comparable salaries. What went wrong? Why is the City so far behind?

This link shows income limits for HUD housing:

https://www.cstx.gov/departments___city_hall/commserv/development/grants/view_income_limits


I find it sad that this income level qualifies for HUD housing. No wonder the US is in so much debt. We waste money supporting those that can/should support themselves.
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LOYAL AG
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In reply to cslifer • 2:09p, 10/6/24
AG
cslifer said:
Your calculations would be correct if they worked 2080 hours like a normal 8-5 office. They would 2900 hours so the hourly rate is significantly lower than your calculation.


Ok at 2900 hours the firefighters are at $20.61/ hour which is still 37+% high than the starting Target job. Regardless of hourly wage you have to consider the fact that a Target worker makes $31.2k per year IF they are full time. There's not a world where a Target employee works 2900 hours/year. A good number of those $15 hour jobs aren't even full time.

You're comparing hourly wages for a job that is full time (apparently full time plus) versus a job that probably isn't. It's just not a valid comparison. And please don't move the goalpost. You didn't mention a single comparison company with 8-5 office workers in this market. Nobody wanting to be a firefighter or police officer considers any of the jobs you listed as viable alternatives.

I agree with you that we should pay them more but not on an hourly basis but rather on a total pay basis. $59k for that firefighter should be closer to $75k. Thats why so many start here and move to a bigger market. Our first responders should not qualify for housing assistance. Thats a great argument, let's stick to that.
A fearful society is a compliant society. That's why Democrats and criminals prefer their victims to be unarmed. Gun Control is not about guns, it's about control.
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cslifer
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In reply to LOYAL AG • 2:18p, 10/6/24
lol not moving goal posts at all, just pointing out that your statement about hourly wages was way off, which it was. You mention jobs I "listed" as viable alternatives, not sure where that came from as I didn't list any.
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LOYAL AG
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In reply to cslifer • 2:49p, 10/6/24
AG
cslifer said:
lol not moving goal posts at all, just pointing out that your statement about hourly wages was way off, which it was. You mention jobs I "listed" as viable alternatives, not sure where that came from as I didn't list any.


Maybe you aren't the OP, if so I apologize. Didn't honestly look at that. I do appreciate the clarification of hours worked for firefighters. We all know there's a trade off to living here and other than Mike Elko nobody is immune to it. It is disappointing that guys in those roles qualify for housing assistance. I'm certainly we agree on that.
A fearful society is a compliant society. That's why Democrats and criminals prefer their victims to be unarmed. Gun Control is not about guns, it's about control.
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2020
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In reply to LOYAL AG • 3:09p, 10/6/24
LOYAL AG said:

I agree with you that we should pay them more but not on an hourly basis but rather on a total pay basis. $59k for that firefighter should be closer to $75k. Thats why so many start here and move to a bigger market. Our first responders should not qualify for housing assistance. Thats a great argument, let's stick to that.


Could not agree more. I think the average person would be shocked at what those numbers look like over the last 10 years. It's a staggering figure, for both PD & FD, with significant dollar amounts in professional development attached to those personnel losses.
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Smeghead4761
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4:46p, 10/6/24
Just for my own edification, I went and looked at starting police officer salaries locally. Historically, it has usually stacked up with BPD at #1, followed by CSPD and then UPD.

Bryan is still on top, starting salary of $32.07/hr ($66,705/yr)

UPD is currently #2, at $31.75/hr ($66,040/yr)

CSPD lists $30.53/hr ($63,502/yr) for entry level police officer.
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woodiewood
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In reply to tu ag • 5:07p, 10/6/24
tu ag said:
I don't know a single person in fire / safety that doesn't work a 2nd job or OT to make substantially more $. That is part of why many take the jobs. The potential into make 6 digits annually is there.
Yep. I know a feww who spend their days off every week and either have second jobs or buy and remodel old homes and flip them or rent them out.

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saturn135
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In reply to LOYAL AG • 6:10p, 10/6/24
Pay scale says $20.53, not sure where your figure came from. One can assume that someone who has spent time fire/ems/police would probably qualify for a mid management position at Target or Costco making about $20 an hour, not $15. With that said, I'd rather hang out in the air conditioning as a manager vs running into fires or being shot at.
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LOYAL AG
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In reply to saturn135 • 6:11p, 10/6/24
AG
saturn135 said:
Pay scale says $20.53, not sure where your figure came from.


A lot has happened on the thread since I posted.
A fearful society is a compliant society. That's why Democrats and criminals prefer their victims to be unarmed. Gun Control is not about guns, it's about control.
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2020
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In reply to saturn135 • 7:15p, 10/6/24
saturn135 said:
Pay scale says $20.53, not sure where your figure came from. One can assume that someone who has spent time fire/ems/police would probably qualify for a mid management position at Target or Costco making about $20 an hour, not $15. With that said, I'd rather hang out in the air conditioning as a manager vs running into fires or being shot at.


His statement wasn't wrong, there's a bit of fuzziness in how the pay is structured. I'm no expert so please correct anything I muck up. Firefighters on shift essentially work 56 hours a week which equates to 2912 hours/year as opposed to a standard 40hr employee working 2080 hours per year. If you look at the top of the scale it shows pay for uncertified or partially-certified 40 hour employees. Hence the $27 hourly pay. It is understandable how that can be missed. It can get convoluted, even without delving into FLSA cycles and how firefighters are not paid overtime until after 56 hours/week based on federal labor law exemptions. Because they work an extra 832 hours a year, the hourly rates are especially low.

For reference, I went to the city's posted pay scale on their website for the fire dept.
https://cdnsm5-hosted.civiclive.com/UserFiles/Servers/Server_12410832/File/Departments/HR/FirePayScale.pdf

It can be found on this page: https://www.cstx.gov/departments___city_hall/hr/employment/csfd_careers/firefighter/compensation___benefits

This is all to say that I agree wholeheartedly with Loyal Ag, our local first responders should all be better compensated as should all of our local teachers. There is zero excuse for any of those folks to be qualifying within the HUD income limits.
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woodiewood
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8:43p, 10/6/24
Are HUD housing assistance benefits based on family income or each persons?

Two persons making $60,000+ should not need housing assistance.


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