The thing that I have seen with some of this development of the student high rise is that you need walkable establishments for food, entertainment, etc. that is convenient and not just the ground floor of a high rise. You need establishments that have character and draw to them for people to demand the services. That is what I have seen with the successful redevelopments of similar areas in other cities. They mix the new with the old, not just get rid of all the old buildings for new. The density of the mixed use development high rise type residential is approaching too dense in the Northgate area in my opinion. You have to come to the realization that the success of the Northgate area is going to be highly driven by tourist dollars (I'm including student entertainment in there because they are typically temporary residents of the area). It needs to be accessible by both those that live nearby and those that are visiting for a weekend. Let's all be honest, if you take the Chicken and put it in a lease space on the ground floor of a high rise then it would fail. We continue to go there because of the atmosphere and nostalgia not because the food and beer is so great. Part of the issue is also that the cat is already out of the bag and in my opinion development was not managed or planned well up to this point.

Is the highest and best use of that lot an influx of $13 million now or keep it to support the existing businesses in the area helping to ensure their continued success and facilitating commerce? Since the city already owns the land it is a lot more complicated than just sell it and let the market decide. The city is part of the market making the decision.

Residential near/mixed in with entertainment is a good thing but that already exists. This parking lot is much better as more entertainment, or at a minimum require it be vertically mixed with 1st 2nd floor retail/entertainment.

One high rise not built on the parking lot is another high rise built at a different location.

If the demand is there it will get built. Its not like we're throwing away a potential $100m taxable building if the city does not sell the land, it will just go elsewhere.

Seems incredibly shortsighted to throw away a public asset that can't be undone under the guise of taxes and revenue.

Sub4 said:

---

One high rise not built on the parking lot is another high rise built at a different location.

If the demand is there it will get built. Its not like we're throwing away a potential $100m taxable building if the city does not sell the land, it will just go elsewhere.

Seems incredibly shortsighted to throw away a public asset that can't be undone under the guise of taxes and revenue.

---

Your point is well taken. Student towers are coming up like wildflowers in spring. (Latest announcement in pic) There are several others in design now.

In New York's Central Park they could've said "but the market wants high rises." They could've sold it any number of times but didn't. Why? Because sometimes a public good outweighs the market. And I'm a free market capitalist saying that.

Northgate is a public good. That city lot is owned by the taxpayer. Unless a majority of people I hear from tell me I'm wrong, it's Entertainment District or nothing for me.

Being a free market capitalist is is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't.

Tailgate88 said:

---

dderry00 said:

---

The thing that I have seen with some of this development of the student high rise is that you need walkable establishments for food, entertainment, etc. that is convenient and not just the ground floor of a high rise. You need establishments that have character and draw to them for people to demand the services. That is what I have seen with the successful redevelopments of similar areas in other cities. They mix the new with the old, not just get rid of all the old buildings for new. The density of the mixed use development high rise type residential is approaching too dense in the Northgate area in my opinion. You have to come to the realization that the success of the Northgate area is going to be highly driven by tourist dollars (I'm including student entertainment in there because they are typically temporary residents of the area). It needs to be accessible by both those that live nearby and those that are visiting for a weekend. Let's all be honest, if you take the Chicken and put it in a lease space on the ground floor of a high rise then it would fail. We continue to go there because of the atmosphere and nostalgia not because the food and beer is so great. Part of the issue is also that the cat is already out of the bag and in my opinion development was not managed or planned well up to this point.

Is the highest and best use of that lot an influx of $13 million now or keep it to support the existing businesses in the area helping to ensure their continued success and facilitating commerce? Since the city already owns the land it is a lot more complicated than just sell it and let the market decide. The city is part of the market making the decision.

---

---

Yes this is a good post in my opinion. Once again, it's Northgate Entertainment District or nothing for me. Now, if some student housing is a piece of that equation, then fine. But Entertainment District first.

Respectfully

Yancy

"...not because the food and beer is so great."

The tijuana fries, cheeseburger, and cold beer(s) I had before the texas game say otherwise

(and more specific to the other parts of your post: well said)

https://imemories.us/3ZVahme

Bob Yancy said:

---

Sub4 said:

---

One high rise not built on the parking lot is another high rise built at a different location.

If the demand is there it will get built. Its not like we're throwing away a potential $100m taxable building if the city does not sell the land, it will just go elsewhere.

Seems incredibly shortsighted to throw away a public asset that can't be undone under the guise of taxes and revenue.

---

Your point is well taken. Student towers are coming up like wildflowers in spring. (Latest announcement in pic) There are several others in design now.

In New York's Central Park they could've said "but the market wants high rises." They could've sold it any number of times but didn't. Why? Because sometimes a public good outweighs the market. And I'm a free market capitalist saying that.

Northgate is a public good. That city lot is owned by the taxpayer. Unless a majority of people I hear from tell me I'm wrong, it's Entertainment District or nothing for me.

---

That is an ugly building.

With construction costs the way they are you won't be able to build a nice high rise. A nice high rise would command rents likely not supported in a market like college station.

aggiejc said:

---

With construction costs the way they are you won't be able to build a nice high rise. A nice high rise would command rents likely not supported in a market like college station.

---

There's two or three going up or starting now. Who ever purchases the property may hold it for a decade?

I am totally against the city selling it. As I mentioned above, it would be a very nice gathering place for visitors to the area if half it was made into a park area if done correctly.

If parking is absolutely required, put it underground.

Then, I think a Hall of Fame/Hurricane Harry's replacement is the best way to honor the history. I'd like to see all the bars selling drinks and food off their back porches, and the area basically be an open-air dance hall with a stage at one end. You'd need to fence it to establish a perimeter for TABC purposes, and TABC would have to allow multiple bars to serve patrons in a common area.

I don't frequent the area anymore because the bars are very packed and loud. Can't move around well or hear the person next to you. I always want to buy a drink and then take it out to the covered tables by the parking lot, but can't take alcohol out of the bar. Provide an outdoor dance/concert venue or even something like Greene Hall or Ol Reds would be the best use in my opinion. I think you could make either covered or uncovered work. See some examples below:

Octoberfest beer hall:


Dance hall that looks like a barn:


Outdoor dance hall:

A large music and dancing venue to replace Harry's would be a great addition there.

I also think the food hall concept that was going to be built near the mall (which fell through) would do well in Northgate, to provide students with a variety of eating options during the week and visitors on weekends and game days. Perhaps it could also be used utilized as a farmers market to to replace the downtown Bryan location that was taken away by the developments they are doing there.

I don't think that it is any secret that COCS does NOT want Northgate as an entertainment district and has been chipping away at it for years. COB is eating College Station's lunch with the new midtown development and soon will be pushing its own version of century square right up S College and towards College Station.

People here get upset to hear this, but this town really is boring with little to engage students and families compared to other cities. Two of my daughters went to A&M and one is at University of Arkansas. When you go to Fayetteville, downtown and the entertainment district around Dixon street are amazing. Cool local bars, restaurants, shops and packed all the time. Block after block. Every time I am there it reminds me that College Station has no identity as a city, no heart, no identity for things to do and what little is left they bulldoze any chance they get (Harrys, and soon Northgate)

Bob Yancy said:

---

How do you want to see Northgate in 2040? What would you do with the city parking lot? It's your land, at least it is if you're a College Station taxpayer. Thoughts?

---

I'd like to see zero high rises. B/CS hasn't grown to the point were land is so scarce we need to build up. To me it's reminiscent of Austin in the early 80's before it got really out of control.

Northgate should be a pedestrian area that people can experience while still feeling like the small college town.

BluHorseShu said:

---

Bob Yancy said:

---

How do you want to see Northgate in 2040? What would you do with the city parking lot? It's your land, at least it is if you're a College Station taxpayer. Thoughts?

---

I'd like to see zero high rises. B/CS hasn't grown to the point were land is so scarce we need to build up. To me it's reminiscent of Austin in the early 80's before it got really out of control.

Northgate should be a pedestrian area that people can experience while still feeling like the small college town.

---

Have you tried driving Texas avenue/Hwy 6 at 5pm and seen the urban sprawl southward? I'm sure its in most of non student resident interest to pack the kids as dense and close to campus as possible. Less strain on infrastructure, less cars on the road, I could go on an on.

Historical or cultural preservation to keep Northgate core, SURE! We can be smart about where that density is, but density done right is good for the city.

WTM said:

---

I don't think that it is any secret that COCS does NOT want Northgate as an entertainment district and has been chipping away at it for years. COB is eating College Station's lunch with the new midtown development and soon will be pushing its own version of century square right up S College and towards College Station.

People here get upset to hear this, but this town really is boring with little to engage students and families compared to other cities. Two of my daughters went to A&M and one is at University of Arkansas. When you go to Fayetteville, downtown and the entertainment district around Dixon street are amazing. Cool local bars, restaurants, shops and packed all the time. Block after block. Every time I am there it reminds me that College Station has no identity as a city, no heart, no identity for things to do and what little is left they bulldoze any chance they get (Harrys, and soon Northgate)

---

My son coached football in Arkansas for awhile and I've been to that Fayetteville entertainment district. It's wonderful. Yes on the identity. Just takes vision.

MeKnowNot said:

---

The ~$13M is a small part of the equation.

Please consider how the property could be developed in order to maximize the long-term property and sales tax revenue that the City could yield from this valuable property.

This is an opportunity to hold or reduce the tax burden on the residents. Please don't turn this into another project that just requires additional tax dollars to support.

---

The way to maximize city revenue is sell the lot to a massive student tower. The market wants to do that. The taxable value of the city lot now is zero. The sale price of the land, taxable value of a student tower, the current impact fees to build it, electricity, water and sewer service sales would all equate to a massive initial and ongoing number. Even the rents paid by students are like primary jobs resulting from an economic development agreement because often (not always) the rent payments come from outside the community via parental support to their Aggie, and those outside dollars largely stay and circulate here in our community. That's not to mention the sales tax generated on their consumption.

So from a dollars perspective, an economic development perspective - you name it- a student tower is definitely one way to go.

I am keenly aware of this. But student towers are here and there are more coming. Plowing over Northgate is not necessary. Having an Entertainment District is, in my estimation.

The student towers will keep coming. I guarantee it. One day they'll overdo it and rents will normalize, but that's a different story and a long way off.

My vote will be for a quality Northgate Entertainment District. We'll never get this opportunity again. Once Northgate is developed away, it's gone forever. I can't be a part of that.

Have a good evening.

Yancy '95

TyHolden said:

---

Bob Yancy said:

---

woodometer said:

---

I think you should sell the property do all the development you want behind current Northgate with your police station and parking. But as a tradeoff lower University Drive below grade and create a plaza in front of Northgate to replace what you have currently behind it.

---

Very very expensive when Elon's The Boring Company can get 2-3 pedestrian crossings under University Drive for a fraction of the cost.

---

Do it. Get Elon to College Station.

---

Working on it. :-) Had a presentation. They can do 3 pedestrian crossings under University for $20 million. Pedestrians only not vehicles. Economies of scale by having their equipment here already for Tamu, who they've spoken to regarding other projects. The Boring Company is based in Bastrop and they're hungry.

Bob Yancy said:

---

TyHolden said:

---

Bob Yancy said:

---

woodometer said:

---

I think you should sell the property do all the development you want behind current Northgate with your police station and parking. But as a tradeoff lower University Drive below grade and create a plaza in front of Northgate to replace what you have currently behind it.

---

Very very expensive when Elon's The Boring Company can get 2-3 pedestrian crossings under University Drive for a fraction of the cost.

---

Do it. Get Elon to College Station.

---

Working on it. :-) Had a presentation. They can do 3 pedestrian crossings under University for $20 million. Pedestrians only not vehicles. Economies of scale by having their equipment here already for Tamu, who they've spoken to regarding other projects. The Boring Company is based in Bastrop and they're hungry.

---

Austin hates Elon. Make College Station his 2nd home. He could drill a tunnel from Bastrop to here. Let's build rockets!

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

Sub4 said:

---

One high rise not built on the parking lot is another high rise built at a different location.

If the demand is there it will get built. Its not like we're throwing away a potential $100m taxable building if the city does not sell the land, it will just go elsewhere.

Seems incredibly shortsighted to throw away a public asset that can't be undone under the guise of taxes and revenue.

---

Yeah, College Station has a real demand for more student housing.

If you don't want it built at Northgate, then where do you want to build it? Give the city council a viable alternative to consider.

---

There's tracts all over the University corridor currently in planning stages. There's towers going up on the Culpepper property, too. That's why Hurricane Harry's is closed. The Northeast corridor (on Texas from University to George Bush) will be next. There's no compelling reason to sell the city lot for a student tower except money. I like the idea of making money for the taxpayer with land sales. Just not at the expense of eradicating Northgate.

Respectfully

Bob Yancy said:

---

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

Sub4 said:

---

One high rise not built on the parking lot is another high rise built at a different location.

If the demand is there it will get built. Its not like we're throwing away a potential $100m taxable building if the city does not sell the land, it will just go elsewhere.

Seems incredibly shortsighted to throw away a public asset that can't be undone under the guise of taxes and revenue.

---

Yeah, College Station has a real demand for more student housing.

If you don't want it built at Northgate, then where do you want to build it? Give the city council a viable alternative to consider.

---

There's tracts all over the University corridor currently in planning stages. There's towers going up on the Culpepper property, too. That's why Hurricane Harry's is closed. The Northeast corridor (on Texas from University to George Bush) will be next. There's no compelling reason to sell the city lot for a student tower except money. I like the idea of making money for the taxpayer with land sales. Just not at the expense of eradicating Northgate.

Respectfully

---

Council needs to lose this idea. They rarely make money on a land sale.

Good morning

The parking behind northgate was there before the city bought it. It was a mix of dirt and a few small buildings with tenants. The businesses in Northgate's core built their business under the pretense of that parking's existence.

The city acquired the buildings/entire parcel with the eventual threat of exercising eminent domain and then built the improved parking lot we see today, which was a vast improvement for northgate overall but not without some collateral damage to a few.

If I were one of those few, I would be extremely upset that I was all but forced to sell only to find years later that the city was considering reselling for an astronomical profit, unless of course it was for something that honored the preservation of Northgate's core by replacing or even increasing the parking inventory along the way.

Didn't the city use imminent domain to take a burger business right across Church Ave and then flip it?

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

Sub4 said:

---

One high rise not built on the parking lot is another high rise built at a different location.

If the demand is there it will get built. Its not like we're throwing away a potential $100m taxable building if the city does not sell the land, it will just go elsewhere.

Seems incredibly shortsighted to throw away a public asset that can't be undone under the guise of taxes and revenue.

---

Yeah, College Station has a real demand for more student housing.

If you don't want it built at Northgate, then where do you want to build it? Give the city council a viable alternative to consider.

---

Build another tower on any of a dozen other locations at Northgate besides the one directly out the back door of the most historic place off campus (barely) in Aggieland on the footprint of the original downtown College Station.

Just because the city HAS the right to sell that land does not mean it IS the right thing to do. Council members were elected to vote to represent their constituents. Maybe a decision this big should be left up to the voters.

It's not always about the money. We have the opportunity to do something special here that will benefit future generations of Aggies and BCS residents. It would be a shame to let that slip away.