Generally, I agree. I think teacher wages are way too low and there are way too many administrators at wages that are WAY too high. I've seen some GREAT teachers. I've also see some REALLY BAD teachers. IF the profession would assent to rigorous review and accountability (NOT on test scores alone), I think we could get there, but I'm not sure if they, as a group, would agree.gibby03 said:cavscout96 said:that's the great thing about market forces. Competition will improve the outcomes for the student and the best teachers will be rewarded for their efforts instead of being stuck on a pay scale that rewards seniority over competence.gibby03 said:1. There are no Unions.PS3D said:ElephantRider said:
Texas teachers are incredibly overworked and underpaid.
Three months of vacation every year, a union that actually protects them, and poor performance can be blamed on budget issues? Some folks would kill for a job like that.
(Note: I am not saying there aren't teachers who deserve pay raises or issues that complicate performance, I'm just disagreeing with the "overworked/underpaid" angle).
2. There aren't people "killing" for those jobs because if they were then you wouldn't see articles like this Teacher Shortage
3. I wonder why people aren't "killing" to take these jobs, probably because they aren't paid enough.
Or, pay teachers as "experts" in their fields to encourage a more competent workforce. Right now ISD's have to raise pay to get people to come. Instead, let's change the mindset and give someone a reason to make education their career instead of a "job". That's what education was 30 years ago.
Local Schools TEA ratings
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Last: 10 mo ago by George Costanza
Social engineering is a battlefield that extends to all corners of our society, it's a battle between the far left and far right for control of all of us.
and the far right has significant problems too...EliteElectric said:
Social engineering is a battlefield that extends to all corners of our society, it's a battle between the far left and far right for control of all of us.
Bryan, College Station ISDs weigh in on 2023 TEA ratings: 'Doesn't tell the whole story' https://www.kbtx.com/2025/04/25/bryan-college-station-isds-weigh-2023-tea-ratings-doesnt-tell-whole-story/
Doesn't tell the whole story. From folks who would be shouting the same story from the rooftops if they had an "A".
Doesn't tell the whole story. From folks who would be shouting the same story from the rooftops if they had an "A".
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The biggest concern of this reporting isn't the assigned accountability grades, rather the timing and collective effort of this State's elected officials to sabotage the voters perception of public education in effort to garner its support of vouchers - which it appears will be achieved. Students take the STARR test and then districts across the state are told the grading criteria has changed after the fact. Send districts and their committed employees into a tailspin on already tight budgets and resources and then watch it burn. The citizens of this state should be highly aware of the bait and switch it just fell for regardless of how it feels about the institution of public education. I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
You can really tell the public school apologists on here.
IMHO, they sure do tax us a heck of a lot for a mediocre product. But we have new athletics facilities, etc., etc. When you bring in a Superintendent to specifically fundraise and "pass bonds", and not to move the needle towards improving academics, there's a problem.
IMHO, they sure do tax us a heck of a lot for a mediocre product. But we have new athletics facilities, etc., etc. When you bring in a Superintendent to specifically fundraise and "pass bonds", and not to move the needle towards improving academics, there's a problem.
"Attorney General Ken Paxton has filed a lawsuit against Coppell Independent School District ("ISD") officials for illegally teaching critical race theory ("CRT")."
Thank you for finding one actual example out of the 1,207 school districts in Texas. That's what I was trying to see. If Coppell is breaking the law the consequences should be significant ... and again this is an example of how the system should work. A teacher, school, or district does something like that and its put to an end. When and if these scenarios come up they are dealt with. This one example doesn't justify your stereotyping of over 400,000 public school teachers and administrators as "social engineering" our kids though.
Further, we as conservatives are shooting ourselves in the foot if we abandon public education. If this "social engineering" is as widespread as you claim, we need to be even more diligent. 94% of kids in Texas attend public schools and when elections are decided by a few percentage points its important not to turn over such a huge societal institution to the left.
Thank you for finding one actual example out of the 1,207 school districts in Texas. That's what I was trying to see. If Coppell is breaking the law the consequences should be significant ... and again this is an example of how the system should work. A teacher, school, or district does something like that and its put to an end. When and if these scenarios come up they are dealt with. This one example doesn't justify your stereotyping of over 400,000 public school teachers and administrators as "social engineering" our kids though.
Further, we as conservatives are shooting ourselves in the foot if we abandon public education. If this "social engineering" is as widespread as you claim, we need to be even more diligent. 94% of kids in Texas attend public schools and when elections are decided by a few percentage points its important not to turn over such a huge societal institution to the left.
Hornbeck said:
You can really tell the public school apologists on here.
IMHO, they sure do tax us a heck of a lot for a mediocre product. But we have new athletics facilities, etc., etc. When you bring in a Superintendent to specifically fundraise and "pass bonds", and not to move the needle towards improving academics, there's a problem.
You must be in College Station and I don't know the exact numbers there. But for those of you in Bryan, when was the last time your school taxes increased? Been a while.
Many, if not most, residential homesteads are actually paying less in school taxes in actual dollars then they were a few years ago because of the increased exemption amount ... even with increased valuations.
What if we just ditched STAAR testing altogether and came up with metrics that actually identified how well districts were educating children?
George Costanza said:
"Attorney General Ken Paxton has filed a lawsuit against Coppell Independent School District ("ISD") officials for illegally teaching critical race theory ("CRT")."
Thank you for finding one actual example out of the 1,207 school districts in Texas. That's what I was trying to see. If Coppell is breaking the law the consequences should be significant ... and again this is an example of how the system should work. A teacher, school, or district does something like that and its put to an end. When and if these scenarios come up they are dealt with. This one example doesn't justify your stereotyping of over 400,000 public school teachers and administrators as "social engineering" our kids though.
Further, we as conservatives are shooting ourselves in the foot if we abandon public education. If this "social engineering" is as widespread as you claim, we need to be even more diligent. 94% of kids in Texas attend public schools and when elections are decided by a few percentage points its important not to turn over such a huge societal institution to the left.
I can wholly agree with your last paragraph. If you think this is the one and only example though, you're fooling yourself.
Have a look through the curriculum many of our educators have been through in the last decade. I think you'd likely be surprised.
Hornbeck said:
You can really tell the public school apologists on here.
IMHO, they sure do tax us a heck of a lot for a mediocre product. But we have new athletics facilities, etc., etc. When you bring in a Superintendent to specifically fundraise and "pass bonds", and not to move the needle towards improving academics, there's a problem.
Mediocre is probably about right, but may be a bit generous based on my experiences with the population of recent HS grads I encounter
George Costanza said:
Many, if not most, residential homesteads are actually paying less in school taxes in actual dollars then they were a few years ago because of the increased exemption amount ... even with increased valuations.
Do you have the source data? I'd like to see that because it's not the theme I hear among the folks I interact with.
People are realizing zero return on investment for DEI. Spend, spend, spend, and try to change someone's morals or values. That is why blue chip companies are phasing it out.
First - irrelevant to the thread. Second - untrue for the vast majority of majority of property owners.
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Agreed. Mine hasn't gone down.
gibby03 said:1. There are no Unions.PS3D said:ElephantRider said:
Texas teachers are incredibly overworked and underpaid.
Three months of vacation every year, a union that actually protects them, and poor performance can be blamed on budget issues? Some folks would kill for a job like that.
(Note: I am not saying there aren't teachers who deserve pay raises or issues that complicate performance, I'm just disagreeing with the "overworked/underpaid" angle).
2. There aren't people "killing" for those jobs because if they were then you wouldn't see articles like this Teacher Shortage
3. I wonder why people aren't "killing" to take these jobs, probably because they aren't paid enough.
A minority of school teachers are unionized, probably closer to 10-15%. They most certainly do exist, and 10-15% of anything is enough to cause outsized influence in that category.
Texas Tribune is laughably biased, and there are going to be reported shortages in every industry. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, an organization that promotes businesses in the United States (and noticeably opposes efforts to stem illegal immigration), claims that there are shortages in several categories, including financial activities and professional services. So whatever issues teachers are facing, that's not unique to that category, and those other jobs don't get generous benefits.
You're also forgetting that teaching is something that basically requires a degree. I guarantee you that they are turning away capable, educated people, just because they didn't go through education as their major.
PS3D said:gibby03 said:1. There are no Unions.PS3D said:ElephantRider said:
Texas teachers are incredibly overworked and underpaid.
Three months of vacation every year, a union that actually protects them, and poor performance can be blamed on budget issues? Some folks would kill for a job like that.
(Note: I am not saying there aren't teachers who deserve pay raises or issues that complicate performance, I'm just disagreeing with the "overworked/underpaid" angle).
2. There aren't people "killing" for those jobs because if they were then you wouldn't see articles like this Teacher Shortage
3. I wonder why people aren't "killing" to take these jobs, probably because they aren't paid enough.
A minority of school teachers are unionized, probably closer to 10-15%. They most certainly do exist, and 10-15% of anything is enough to cause outsized influence in that category.
Texas Tribune is laughably biased, and there are going to be reported shortages in every industry. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, an organization that promotes businesses in the United States (and noticeably opposes efforts to stem illegal immigration), claims that there are shortages in several categories, including financial activities and professional services. So whatever issues teachers are facing, that's not unique to that category, and those other jobs don't get generous benefits.
You're also forgetting that teaching is something that basically requires a degree. I guarantee you that they are turning away capable, educated people, just because they didn't go through education as their major.
1. Do they exist in terms of having an organization to call themselves a union? Yes. Do they have any collective bargaining power? No. It literally means nothing. It's a small number of people in an organization that sends people to Austin to "fight" but they have zero power in the State of Texas. Let that 10-15k people "strike" and see what happens to their jobs. They will lose personal days off and then get docked pay. Not really a union in the sense that they have ANY power.
2. I literally linked the first article I saw. There were more. TEA has published articles that say nearly 40% of new hires in education in 23-24 were uncertified teachers.
3. I promise you schools aren't "turning away" certified teachers. They are looking for them.
From the link I provided closing the gap is a weighted score of the combined ratings of Academic Achievement, Graduation Status, ELP Status, and School Quality status. All you have to do is click on the link and look at the data.Quote:
Explain what it means in "closing the gap"
I could go on and answer all of your questions but I'd have to charge you by the hour for my time. If you want to remain ignorant and just blindly attack this report that's on you. All the information you seek is there.
CT'97 said:From the link I provided closing the gap is a weighted score of the combined ratings of Academic Achievement, Graduation Status, ELP Status, and School Quality status. All you have to do is click on the link and look at the data.Quote:
Explain what it means in "closing the gap"
I could go on and answer all of your questions but I'd have to charge you by the hour for my time. If you want to remain ignorant and just blindly attack this report that's on you. All the information you seek is there.
What you fail to comprehend is that I don't believe you know. I don't need to look it up. I understand it. If you do understand, good for you. I encourage others to learn because there are lots of false narratives out there.
The majority of people who are doing this complaining about public education and casting stones on the ratings of schools have zero concept of how it actually works. I'm glad you can read, so do your research on how these ratings actually get scored and all the variables that led to these ratings.
So, if the "letter grade doesn't tell the whole story" with school accountability….
….would you go eat at a restaurant with a low C score on the restaurant scoring from the county health department?
Surely, that doesn't "tell the whole story" as well…
Fortunately for us, they shut down restaurants with a "D" or lower until they get their crap together.
….would you go eat at a restaurant with a low C score on the restaurant scoring from the county health department?
Surely, that doesn't "tell the whole story" as well…
Fortunately for us, they shut down restaurants with a "D" or lower until they get their crap together.
The difference is, there are clear cut responsibilities that don't require taking into consideration of people's backgrounds.
For example, don't leave a tub of sauce in an unrefrigerated location to allow for spoiling and don't get a ding. That's pretty simple, it doesn't matter where that person grows up, their intellectual capabilities or other factors. You simply don't put it here or there and you don't receive a documented deduction.
But, if the worker you have is incompetent and doesn't understand, guess what happens? The business fires them. Don't perform, fire them.
Guess what public schools CAN'T do? You guessed it, they can't fire the kid who has dyslexia, a 3rd grade reading level when they are in 5th grade, have parents who don't care about their education and literally uses school as a day care. They are expected to bring that kid to the same level of the gen ed kid with zero educational deficiencies and parents who care. And I promise you, regardless of what some of you think, teachers AND admin are trying to do that exact thing. But, god forbid that kid doesn't perform to your liking and that translates to a C letter grade and all of a sudden the school system is a failure.
Like I've said before, there are things public education can do better, but defining the entire system off of something like this is just shortsighted.
For example, don't leave a tub of sauce in an unrefrigerated location to allow for spoiling and don't get a ding. That's pretty simple, it doesn't matter where that person grows up, their intellectual capabilities or other factors. You simply don't put it here or there and you don't receive a documented deduction.
But, if the worker you have is incompetent and doesn't understand, guess what happens? The business fires them. Don't perform, fire them.
Guess what public schools CAN'T do? You guessed it, they can't fire the kid who has dyslexia, a 3rd grade reading level when they are in 5th grade, have parents who don't care about their education and literally uses school as a day care. They are expected to bring that kid to the same level of the gen ed kid with zero educational deficiencies and parents who care. And I promise you, regardless of what some of you think, teachers AND admin are trying to do that exact thing. But, god forbid that kid doesn't perform to your liking and that translates to a C letter grade and all of a sudden the school system is a failure.
Like I've said before, there are things public education can do better, but defining the entire system off of something like this is just shortsighted.
gibby03 said:
The difference is, there are clear cut responsibilities that don't require taking into consideration of people's backgrounds.
For example, don't leave a tub of sauce in an unrefrigerated location to allow for spoiling and don't get a ding. That's pretty simple, it doesn't matter where that person grows up, their intellectual capabilities or other factors. You simply don't put it here or there and you don't receive a documented deduction.
But, if the worker you have is incompetent and doesn't understand, guess what happens? The business fires them. Don't perform, fire them.
Guess what public schools CAN'T do? You guessed it, they can't fire the kid who has dyslexia, a 3rd grade reading level when they are in 5th grade, have parents who don't care about their education and literally uses school as a day care. They are expected to bring that kid to the same level of the gen ed kid with zero educational deficiencies and parents who care. And I promise you, regardless of what some of you think, teachers AND admin are trying to do that exact thing. But, god forbid that kid doesn't perform to your liking and that translates to a C letter grade and all of a sudden the school system is a failure.
Like I've said before, there are things public education can do better, but defining the entire system off of something like this is just shortsighted.
So what you're saying is lower grade = stupider kids in the district...? (And by "stupider" I mean replace the word with whatever is the most politically term these days)
PS3D said:gibby03 said:
The difference is, there are clear cut responsibilities that don't require taking into consideration of people's backgrounds.
For example, don't leave a tub of sauce in an unrefrigerated location to allow for spoiling and don't get a ding. That's pretty simple, it doesn't matter where that person grows up, their intellectual capabilities or other factors. You simply don't put it here or there and you don't receive a documented deduction.
But, if the worker you have is incompetent and doesn't understand, guess what happens? The business fires them. Don't perform, fire them.
Guess what public schools CAN'T do? You guessed it, they can't fire the kid who has dyslexia, a 3rd grade reading level when they are in 5th grade, have parents who don't care about their education and literally uses school as a day care. They are expected to bring that kid to the same level of the gen ed kid with zero educational deficiencies and parents who care. And I promise you, regardless of what some of you think, teachers AND admin are trying to do that exact thing. But, god forbid that kid doesn't perform to your liking and that translates to a C letter grade and all of a sudden the school system is a failure.
Like I've said before, there are things public education can do better, but defining the entire system off of something like this is just shortsighted.
So what you're saying is lower grade = stupider kids in the district...? (And by "stupider" I mean replace the word with whatever is the most politically term these days)
No, I'm saying try taking every employee you've ever worked with and you can never fire them regardless of their talent level. Then, every employee you hire has to be the next person that walks through the front door. You don't get to interview them, you have to hire them. Then, the same company you compete with gets to fire their employees and they can send one of their employees to you because they can't perform their job duties. You have to hire them. You have to teach them as is.
Then see is you complain about your workforce and how your profit levels are effected. It's a little harder when you deal with everyone instead of the select few that meet some criteria before you seven start the work.
what about Iola
happyinBCS said:
what about Iola
B
Why did you promote the kid 2 grades above his abilities?
Based on my experience in public education, the teacher didn't, but a principal or assistant principal went behind their back and changed the student's final grade.cavscout96 said:
Why did you promote the kid 2 grades above his abilities?
b0ridi said:Based on my experience in public education, the teacher didn't, but a principal or assistant principal went behind their back and changed the student's final grade.cavscout96 said:
Why did you promote the kid 2 grades above his abilities?
The two to three months off in the summer is without pay, so it's really not a vacation. Many if not most all university professors are also on 9 month appointments unless they elect to teach in the summer semesters.gibby03 said:1. There are no Unions.PS3D said:ElephantRider said:
Texas teachers are incredibly overworked and underpaid.
Three months of vacation every year, a union that actually protects them, and poor performance can be blamed on budget issues? Some folks would kill for a job like that.
(Note: I am not saying there aren't teachers who deserve pay raises or issues that complicate performance, I'm just disagreeing with the "overworked/underpaid" angle).
2. There aren't people "killing" for those jobs because if they were then you wouldn't see articles like this Teacher Shortage
3. I wonder why people aren't "killing" to take these jobs, probably because they aren't paid enough.
As mentioned no union in Texas.
Most quality teachers work way more than a typical 40 hour workweek.
The problem with the teaching profession is that the pay system awards the least competent teacher the same as the most competent one. The upper half of the teachers deserved much greater pay than the others.
woodiewood1 said:
The problem with the teaching profession is that the pay system awards the least competent teacher the same as the most competent one. The upper half of the teachers deserved much greater pay than the others.
OK, and how would that be defined? Bad teachers would just blame their idiot students, and maybe for some areas that really is the case.
That is actually changing as Texas has created the Teacher Incentive Allotment.woodiewood1 said:The two to three months off in the summer is without pay, so it's really not a vacation. Many if not most all university professors are also on 9 month appointments unless they elect to teach in the summer semesters.gibby03 said:1. There are no Unions.PS3D said:ElephantRider said:
Texas teachers are incredibly overworked and underpaid.
Three months of vacation every year, a union that actually protects them, and poor performance can be blamed on budget issues? Some folks would kill for a job like that.
(Note: I am not saying there aren't teachers who deserve pay raises or issues that complicate performance, I'm just disagreeing with the "overworked/underpaid" angle).
2. There aren't people "killing" for those jobs because if they were then you wouldn't see articles like this Teacher Shortage
3. I wonder why people aren't "killing" to take these jobs, probably because they aren't paid enough.
As mentioned no union in Texas.
Most quality teachers work way more than a typical 40 hour workweek.
The problem with the teaching profession is that the pay system awards the least competent teacher the same as the most competent one. The upper half of the teachers deserved much greater pay than the others.