Local Government Transparency

2,792 Views | 23 Replies | Last: 7 mo ago by EliteElectric
Bob Yancy
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
6:35p, 5/30/25
Since elected in 2022, I've been shocked at how restricted communication is for local officials. While those elected at the federal and state level enjoy communication freedom to a MUCH greater degree, local govt officials are HIGHLY constrained by the Open Meetings Act (OMA). As one member of council, it's clear to me that sometimes over-interpretation of the OMA, while well intentioned, can becomes a disservice to you and the council itself.

Could an online council forum help?

In a way, social media constitutes a "get out of jail free card" for those subject to the OMA because it's not some smoky back room deal- it's wide open. The citizens are privy to Council's ideas, positions, and policy appeals.

So here's my question:

What do you all think about a "City Council Forum" whereby we can openly communicate with one another and you can see our policy advocacy in real time? Other cities have instituted this policy in Texas, and while Austin is certainly not a city we want to emulate, they are one city that uses their online forum extensively.

Attached is a screen shot from the public, legal, and transparent "Austin City Council Forum." This screenshot is an actual, recent post from an Austin councilman advocating for a policy position to his colleagues. The mayor and other councilmembers utilize it all the time.

So please look at this screenshot and let me know what you think. I'm not certain either way, but I do get frustrated at our inability to openly communicate with one another, and this is a way to be totally transparent and compliant with the law.

Thoughts?

My opinions are mine and should not be construed as those of city council or staff. I welcome robust debate but will cease communication on any thread in which colleagues or staff are personally criticized. I must refrain from comment on posted agenda items until after meetings are concluded. Bob Yancy 95
Reply Quote
1
2 edits
happyinBCS
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
7:11p, 5/30/25
Totally spot on
but I think you will find opposition with your fellow council members but PLEASE keep trying
Reply Quote
33
Bob Yancy
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to happyinBCS • 7:27p, 5/30/25
happyinBCS said:
Totally spot on
but I think you will find opposition with your fellow council members but PLEASE keep trying


Thanks for the feedback. Just really curious what the bosses think. Appreciate your response.

1 aye
0 nay

Respectfully

Yancy '95
My opinions are mine and should not be construed as those of city council or staff. I welcome robust debate but will cease communication on any thread in which colleagues or staff are personally criticized. I must refrain from comment on posted agenda items until after meetings are concluded. Bob Yancy 95
Reply Quote
Rexter
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:27p, 5/30/25
Reply Quote
1 edit
BucketofBalls99
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Bob Yancy • 9:56p, 5/30/25
I would think judging by happy's response being blue, it looks like the "aye"s are at 6
Reply Quote
8
Bob Yancy
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to BucketofBalls99 • 12:22a, 5/31/25
BucketofBalls99 said:
I would think judging by happy's response being blue, it looks like the "aye"s are at 6


Now it's:

Aye 12
Nay 0

My opinions are mine and should not be construed as those of city council or staff. I welcome robust debate but will cease communication on any thread in which colleagues or staff are personally criticized. I must refrain from comment on posted agenda items until after meetings are concluded. Bob Yancy 95
Reply Quote
Independence H-D
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
7:54a, 5/31/25
Certainly worth giving it a shot...
Reply Quote
1
Bob Yancy
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:15a, 5/31/25
Senate Bill. 1297, a bill that passed during the Eighty-Third Legislative Session, adds a provision to the Texas Open Meetings Act that became effective September 1, 2013.

It provides that communication between councilmembers about public business or public policy does not constitute a meeting if certain conditions are met.

The communication must be: (1) in writing, (2) posted to an online message board that is viewable and searchable by the public, and (3) displayed in real time and displayed on the message board for no less than 30 days after the communication is first posted.

A city is prohibited from having more than one online message board used for these purposes. Additionally, the online message board must be prominently displayed on the city's primary website and no more than one click away from the city's website. The message board may
only be used by city councilmembers or city employees that have received authorization from the council. If a city employee posts on the message board, the employee must include his or her name and title with the communication. The council may not vote or take action by posting
on the city's online message board, and if the city removes a posted message, the city must retain that message for 6 years.

*With attribution from the Texas Municipal League
My opinions are mine and should not be construed as those of city council or staff. I welcome robust debate but will cease communication on any thread in which colleagues or staff are personally criticized. I must refrain from comment on posted agenda items until after meetings are concluded. Bob Yancy 95
Reply Quote
2
1 edit
Tailgate88
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:26a, 5/31/25
AG
Not only do I support this, but I hope our citizens will demand it. Great idea. The fact that politicians should be constrained from communicating with their constituents is ridiculous.
Reply Quote
10
Bob Yancy
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Tailgate88 • 8:39a, 5/31/25
Tailgate88 said:
Not only do I support this, but I hope our citizens will demand it. Great idea. The fact that politicians should be constrained from communicating with their constituents is ridiculous.


The Open Meetings Act does that very thing. That's why we cannot respond to your feedback during the Hear Visitors portion of our meeting. Actually, this provision is also often over-interpreted, too. We can actually thank you, acknowledge your concern, and state current policy on the matter or ask staff to. But, most cities just sit there mute after people speak. I loathe that.

The Act also constrains discussion among council-members, which I believe can lead to substandard decisions among lay board members who are called upon to decide complex issues at a single meeting. It can constrain board relations and cohesion.

The purpose of the act was well-intentioned, but like so many things government does, can often have unintended consequences.

Respectfully

Yancy '95
My opinions are mine and should not be construed as those of city council or staff. I welcome robust debate but will cease communication on any thread in which colleagues or staff are personally criticized. I must refrain from comment on posted agenda items until after meetings are concluded. Bob Yancy 95
Reply Quote
4
1 edit
Koko Chingo
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:24a, 5/31/25
AG
Let's see what happens. I posted this very thing the other day and it was deleted. Since the OP is on this very subject let's hope it stays.

To begin, it's not personal. A sitting councilman, mayor, etc carries a lot of weight and has a direct impact on issues and things that are funded with our tax dollars from schools and facilities to parks, roads, ect.

The quandary here is this:

We want our government officials to be transparent and it's nice to see a councilman engaging with us online whether we agree or disagree. However, as soon as Mr. Yancy makes a post regarding anything to do with official city business; he essentially locks down the post making his voice the only City of College Station voice that can be heard on the particular thread. .

This happens because of the Texas Open Meetings Act (TOMA). If the mayor or another councilperson knows Mr. Yancy has already posted on City of College Station matters, they would have to refrain from posting or risk creating a "walking quorum" which is a violation of Texas Code 551.006. That would create an official meeting, and be under the rules of holding an official meeting.

I also assume the opposite would be true. I would assume Mr. Yancy would also refrain from posting on a thread where another councilmember or mayor has made a comment regarding city business in order to prevent the thread from becoming an official meeting.

When Mr. Yancy posts on topics related to the City of College Station, he puts himself in another tough spot. This is due to the Texas Public Information Act (TIPA).

Depending on how he chooses to do the record keeping; either the city, or Mr. Yancy himself would be required to produce these records if a proper TPIA request is made. That means Mr. Yancy would be a "temporary custodian" of these records and would be obligated to preserve them or forward them to the city secretary for retention for up to 6 years.

In the past, TexAgs has edited and/or deleted some of his posts in which he has commented on city business. Unless he has archived them and makes them available to an official records request; Mr. Yancy is in violation of the Texas Public Information Act. That may not even be his fault because he does not have the power to edit changes made by staff. TexAgs staff may have put Mr. Yancy in a situation where he is in violation of TIPA.

He could also be in full compliance screenshotting everything and forwarding it to the city secretary for archival or keeping it himself.

This speaks more to the law not being able to keep up with communication methods via technology and the government not knowing how to react or manage it. I do not believe Mr. Yancy is trying to do anything with malice or ill intent. He is just communicating to a broad audience like everyone else.

I do think he is being a bit of a risk taker, especially if he has not been archiving all of his posts that relate to city matters.

I also think the law creates an unfair situation for those city officials that actually do post online because we will never hear from another elected official on the matter. And that is for both giving support and counter arguments; all because no one wants to create an official meeting and jump through all the regulations and rules associated with an official meeting.

If the city did have an official forum AND 'the mayor and ALL members of council" participated that would be awesome. We need a place where all stakeholders can present information easily. Making council meetings can be tough to get to especially when you have to travel and fluctuating work schedules.

With regulations and technology, the government is always 10 steps behind.

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/GV/htm/GV.551.htm

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/docs/GV/htm/GV.552.htm
Reply Quote
1
Bob Yancy
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Koko Chingo • 12:14p, 5/31/25
Koko Chingo said:
Let's see what happens. I posted this very thing the other day and it was deleted. Since the OP is on this very subject let's hope it stays.

To begin, it's not personal. A sitting councilman, mayor, etc carries a lot of weight and has a direct impact on issues and things that are funded with our tax dollars from schools and facilities to parks, roads, ect.

The quandary here is this:

We want our government officials to be transparent and it's nice to see a councilman engaging with us online whether we agree or disagree. However, as soon as Mr. Yancy makes a post regarding anything to do with official city business; he essentially locks down the post making his voice the only City of College Station voice that can be heard on the particular thread. .

This happens because of the Texas Open Meetings Act (TOMA). If the mayor or another councilperson knows Mr. Yancy has already posted on City of College Station matters, they would have to refrain from posting or risk creating a "walking quorum" which is a violation of Texas Code 551.006. That would create an official meeting, and be under the rules of holding an official meeting.

I also assume the opposite would be true. I would assume Mr. Yancy would also refrain from posting on a thread where another councilmember or mayor has made a comment regarding city business in order to prevent the thread from becoming an official meeting.

When Mr. Yancy posts on topics related to the City of College Station, he puts himself in another tough spot. This is due to the Texas Public Information Act (TIPA).

Depending on how he chooses to do the record keeping; either the city, or Mr. Yancy himself would be required to produce these records if a proper TPIA request is made. That means Mr. Yancy would be a "temporary custodian" of these records and would be obligated to preserve them or forward them to the city secretary for retention for up to 6 years.

In the past, TexAgs has edited and/or deleted some of his posts in which he has commented on city business. Unless he has archived them and makes them available to an official records request; Mr. Yancy is in violation of the Texas Public Information Act. That may not even be his fault because he does not have the power to edit changes made by staff. TexAgs staff may have put Mr. Yancy in a situation where he is in violation of TIPA.

He could also be in full compliance screenshotting everything and forwarding it to the city secretary for archival or keeping it himself.

This speaks more to the law not being able to keep up with communication methods via technology and the government not knowing how to react or manage it. I do not believe Mr. Yancy is trying to do anything with malice or ill intent. He is just communicating to a broad audience like everyone else.

I do think he is being a bit of a risk taker, especially if he has not been archiving all of his posts that relate to city matters.

I also think the law creates an unfair situation for those city officials that actually do post online because we will never hear from another elected official on the matter. And that is for both giving support and counter arguments; all because no one wants to create an official meeting and jump through all the regulations and rules associated with an official meeting.

If the city did have an official forum AND 'the mayor and ALL members of council" participated that would be awesome. We need a place where all stakeholders can present information easily. Making council meetings can be tough to get to especially when you have to travel and fluctuating work schedules.

With regulations and technology, the government is always 10 steps behind.

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/GV/htm/GV.551.htm

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/docs/GV/htm/GV.552.htm


Howdy,

There's a lot to unpack here. Firstly, are you an attorney? I have legal representation and my Austin based attorney is considered an expert by virtue of her co-authorship of Texas Election Laws (see link) and as an advisor in this field.

Excerpts from her bio, name removed, are below:

"Currently advises clients on campaign, ethics, open meetings and public information issues. Her client list includes many present and former members of the Texas legislature and other elected officials."

"She is a founding member of the Texas State Bar Association section on Legislative and Campaign Law. She currently sits on the section board and oversees the presentations and updates to state bar members."

"She was the ethics advisor to Governor George W. Bush and assistant general counsel to Al Gonzales in that office.

"She was the general counsel to Lieutenant Governor Rick Perry and an assistant general counsel for the Texas Department of Agriculture under Commissioner Rick Perry. She was a legislative staffer for several members of the Texas House of Representatives."

********

So I trust her advice.

Many things in your post don't comport with the advice I receive. For example, the so called "walking quorum" was found to be unconstitutional in 2019 and is now revised and codified in state code 551.143.

The "walking quorum" theory was, in my opinion, probably the most over-interpreted provision that stifles communication terribly. Before it was struck down as unconstitutional under the 1st amendment, councilmembers were scared to be seen in public having coffee or lunch. To this day, some still are. There is literally no conversation between two councilmembers outside of a public meeting that could not be falsely construed as a potential violation. That's why it was shot down. It's a fascinating story (see link below).

https://www.hunton.com/media/legal/56788_texas-high-court-strikes-down-open-meetings-act-provision.pdf

It would take 30 pages of writing to address everything you state here. I'll send it to my attorney, but she knows I engage on this platform and we consult often.

Respectfully

Yancy '95



https://texaselectionlaws.com/
My opinions are mine and should not be construed as those of city council or staff. I welcome robust debate but will cease communication on any thread in which colleagues or staff are personally criticized. I must refrain from comment on posted agenda items until after meetings are concluded. Bob Yancy 95
Reply Quote
7
Stucco
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:17p, 5/31/25
I had no idea the council was so hindered in developing consensus. Besides the council being able to work better together, this would present the complexity of positions, the history of issues, the feedback from the community, the considerations contributing to decisions, the mindset of the council, and so much more.
Reply Quote
1
Bob Yancy
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Stucco • 12:21p, 5/31/25
Stucco said:
I had no idea the council was so hindered in developing consensus. Besides the council being able to work better together, this would present the complexity of positions, the history of issues, the feedback from the community, the considerations contributing to decisions, the mindset of the council, and so much more.


100%
My opinions are mine and should not be construed as those of city council or staff. I welcome robust debate but will cease communication on any thread in which colleagues or staff are personally criticized. I must refrain from comment on posted agenda items until after meetings are concluded. Bob Yancy 95
Reply Quote
whoop1995
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:46p, 5/31/25
AG
Since Mr yancy came on I have wondered if his posts or comments on others posts were retainable by law and couldn't be deleted.

I also believe the law about only having one place to post city issues was founded because of bad players in city councils/ mayors/ etc that would post an item/issue in obscure media and then get away with bad things.

I collect ticket stubs! looking for Aggie vs tu stubs - 1926 and below, 1935-1937, 1939-1944, 1946-1948, 1950, 1953, 1956-1957, 1959, 1960, 1963-1966, 1969-1970, 1973, 1974, 1980, 1984, 1990, 2004, 2008 also looking for vs Villanova 1949
Reply Quote
3
Bob Yancy
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Stucco • 12:52p, 5/31/25
Stucco said:
I had no idea the council was so hindered in developing consensus. Besides the council being able to work better together, this would present the complexity of positions, the history of issues, the feedback from the community, the considerations contributing to decisions, the mindset of the council, and so much more.


What it does is, it puts non-expert elected officials, or "lay council" in a disadvantaged position and leads to poor policy outcomes. Staff have hundreds, maybe thousands of hours and numerous personnel to draw up policies, draft contracts, and assemble agendas. Council have one snapshot in time, once posted, to absorb that material and weigh in without the benefit of consultation with colleagues. Suppose one councilmember is an expert in a field, or was part of a prior council when a related decision was made- and you wanted to call them up and ask, "hey why did we do this before and has it worked?" Or "I'm concerned that if we pass X, then Y might happen. Aren't you?"

Depending upon how that's later interpreted, or if the colleague calls another, and that colleague calls another- you could have a violation because you were deliberating, a quorum was reached, and the conversations weren't posted publicly in advance. It's a mess, basically. Like so many things government does, the unintended consequences of well intentioned law tie the real world in knots.

But- the legislature has recognized they are behind the times and have created a public forum platform to allow for open communication.

Thus the purpose of this post. I'm asking if it's something we need in the 21st century.

Respectfully

Yancy '95
My opinions are mine and should not be construed as those of city council or staff. I welcome robust debate but will cease communication on any thread in which colleagues or staff are personally criticized. I must refrain from comment on posted agenda items until after meetings are concluded. Bob Yancy 95
Reply Quote
2
Koko Chingo
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Bob Yancy • 2:33p, 5/31/25
AG
I am happy TOMA changed to account for people discussing things online. I hope that College Station gets an official online message board.

I would still be worried about TPIA. Having a city sanctioned forum would also alleviate any concerns there too.

Reply Quote
1
doubledog
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to happyinBCS • 3:25p, 5/31/25
happyinBCS said:
Totally spot on
but I think you will find opposition with your fellow council members but PLEASE keep trying
This, Bob ask yourself how many of your fellow council members are on F35 now. I think that will answer your question about a forum.
Reply Quote
2
tamc93
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:59p, 5/31/25
AG
Keep in mind that Austin council members have several staff members. (Not proven, but I wonder who is actually responding).

Always for transparency and open discussion.
Reply Quote
Hornbeck
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:00a, 6/2/25
AG
Transparency and open dialog would be optimal.

Covering up things like real estate purchases, not so much.

+1 for for "Aye" camp
Reply Quote
3
EliteElectric
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Hornbeck • 2:08p, 6/2/25
Hornbeck said:
Transparency and open dialog would be optimal.

Covering up things like real estate purchases, not so much.

+1 for for "Aye" camp
same here


any transparency is better than what we have had
Reply Quote
2
Rex Racer
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
2:39p, 6/2/25
AG
Can we get the Brazos County Commissioners to set up a forum, as well? Or are they afraid to face the music regarding the proposed inner east loop?

I already know the answer.
Reply Quote
1 edit
BCSWguru
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Rex Racer • 2:42p, 6/2/25
Would really like to inquire more about who owns land and will benefit greatly form the installation of the east loop.
Reply Quote
1
EliteElectric
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to BCSWguru • 2:48p, 6/2/25
Mr. Eminent Domain Esq. is the owner of all property in America
Reply Quote
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.