Are we finally going to see common sense (medians), or will this just make the businesses that don't get chosen for removal even madder?

https://www.kbtx.com/2025/06/06/city-bryan-considers-modifying-removing-medians-specific-roadways/

Personally I hate the things and do not believe they improve safety at all, in fact they probably cause more wrecks than prevent.

The goal was to create a spending program. In that way I think we can give this project a 4 out of 5 stars for top kickback execution.

Install unnecessarily gaudy medians. Destroy small business and make things worse. Uninstall unnecessarily gaudy medians replace with something else.

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Turning into a left turn lane and then immediately merging is generally illegal and dangerous. The left turn lane is intended for making left turns only, not for merging into traffic. Using it to merge can create hazardous situations as drivers may not anticipate vehicles entering the lane to turn left.

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While I understand people's frustrations, medians do stop the illegal left turns that we ALL saw/see on a daily basis.

doubledog said:

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While I understand people's frustrations, medians do stop the illegal left turns that we ALL saw/see on a daily basis.

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MorganFreeman_HesRightYouKnow.jpeg

I think there is a serious possibility that they didn't properly account for the negative effects (similar to the shut-it-down doctors in COVID times). But the medians were done to address a real issue. I'd be interested to hear from a TexDOT traffic engineer, whose identity is hidden for his own protection, explain the reasoning for the median decision. It probably wasn't as stupid as is figured.

Brian Alg said:

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doubledog said:

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While I understand people's frustrations, medians do stop the illegal left turns that we ALL saw/see on a daily basis.

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MorganFreeman_HesRightYouKnow.jpeg

I think there is a serious possibility that they didn't properly account for the negative effects (similar to the shut-it-down doctors in COVID times). But the medians were done to address a real issue. I'd be interested to hear from a TexDOT traffic engineer, whose identity is hidden for his own protection, explain the reasoning for the median decision. It probably wasn't as stupid as is figured.

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I just assumed it was federal money that had to be spent so go find some project to spend it on.

B/CS in a nutshell:

The studies are available. They show a 40-60% reduction in the most deadly crashes. Limiting conflict points AND slowing the vehicles at those points reduces fatal and life altering crashes.

They are inconvenient and annoying but as a former trauma nurse, I'd rather deal with finding an alternate route.

Brian Alg said:

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doubledog said:

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While I understand people's frustrations, medians do stop the illegal left turns that we ALL saw/see on a daily basis.

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MorganFreeman_HesRightYouKnow.jpeg

I think there is a serious possibility that they didn't properly account for the negative effects (similar to the shut-it-down doctors in COVID times). But the medians were done to address a real issue. I'd be interested to hear from a TexDOT traffic engineer, whose identity is hidden for his own protection, explain the reasoning for the median decision. It probably wasn't as stupid as is figured.

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It really hasn't been a secret. They have been pretty clear that the medians were put in to reduce accidents. As trouble mentioned, numerous studies have shown this. In fact, i saw that there has been a greater reduction in accidents in BCS than what had been shown in the studies. Probably not surprising given how bad some of the driving is here.

trouble said:

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The studies are available. They show a 40-60% reduction in the most deadly crashes. Limiting conflict points AND slowing the vehicles at those points reduces fatal and life altering crashes.

They are inconvenient and annoying but as a former trauma nurse, I'd rather deal with finding an alternate route.

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No offense, but making life too safe is the first step to making life worse.

See covid. You are just inconvenienced with a few minutes extra trip. Small businesses are inconvenienced with a drop in traffic which put them under destroying livelihoods. Sucess for those not directly impacted I guess.

Always be cognizant of the things harder to count when valuing the merits of something. In this case I'd bet most trauma wrecks involved impairment and likely weren't because of bad left hand turns.

I have always thought a business doing concrete demo would be a big success in BCS.
I have never seen concrete be poured and the broken out soon after anywhere more than in BCS.
Speaks to the lack of management and leadership in my book.

personally, I like the medians, and want them to stay, but I was already the sort of driver that would rather make three right turns than do a left not at a traffic light. maybe that is not the Texas way, but I am from the Frozen North and a spin out while trying to make a left turn and merge on an icy road a number of years ago have made me very cautious with left turns (that and having kids).

I am actually glad to see I am not the only one who appreciates the medians.

sometimes I have joked to friends that I'd be happy to wear a t-shirt that says 'I heart medians' around BCS... if I didn't think it might land me in the emergency room...

I wish TxDot had sunk some of that cash into a few more over and underpasses for those damn trains.

****warning personal experience anecdotal evidence incoming****

I have lived in BCS since January 1992, I have never seen a wreck or even heard of a wreck caused by someone turning into the center turning lane to merge. Not once in 33 + years. I have however seen 5 wrecks between vehicles making a u turn and cross traffic in the short time the medians have been installed.

I've got a total of 18 years now. I'm gonna just have to say that you just didn't note them to remember.

EliteElectric said:

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****warning personal experience anecdotal evidence incoming****

I have lived in BCS since January 1992, I have never seen a wreck or even heard of a wreck caused by someone turning into the center turning lane to merge. Not once in 33 + years. I have however seen 5 wrecks between vehicles making a u turn and cross traffic in the short time the medians have been installed.

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I agree with the U-turns. There should be no u-turns anywhere on busy streets (e.g. Texas Ave).

Witnessed two crashes caused by u-turners on Briarcrest. Have almost been plowed into several times myself by folks doing this.

I don't recall this happening pre-medians.

Possible, not very probable.

That was the reason for my caveat, I may just never have experienced or been made aware of them.

......and also, like I said, I see near misses and occasional not near misses from u turns every day. Every single day. Drive up and down Texas Ave 3 times in one day and you will see near collisions and hear horns I promise you. It just is what it is at this point.

trouble said:

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The studies are available. They show a 40-60% reduction in the most deadly crashes. Limiting conflict points AND slowing the vehicles at those points reduces fatal and life altering crashes.

They are inconvenient and annoying but as a former trauma nurse, I'd rather deal with finding an alternate route.

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How many "deadly crashes" occurred on Texas Ave, for the areas the medians now occupy?

And are the studies comparing "apples to apples"? The FM60 & 2818 slalom, errr, diverging diamond intersection never went through any other version...no stop lights, no speed reduction, no change in exit/on ramps. So now the engineers can claim "see, it moves traffic better than before, and studies show that..."

Yessiree traffic is one of the most deceptive uses of stats.

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Over the last 10 years there have been 10 fatalities on that 2 mile stretch of road. After we installed 5 traffic signals there have been zero fatalities!

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What they neglect to tell you is those wrecks were caused by drunk drivers or texters, and those 5 traffic signals are not synched or using motion controls so it now takes you 30 minutes to go those 2 miles and nobody can get going fast enough to cause a fatality.

Statistically correct, with no context. Context matters.


Again I am no traffic engineer just reporting what I see

BQ_90 said:

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Brian Alg said:

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doubledog said:

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While I understand people's frustrations, medians do stop the illegal left turns that we ALL saw/see on a daily basis.

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MorganFreeman_HesRightYouKnow.jpeg

I think there is a serious possibility that they didn't properly account for the negative effects (similar to the shut-it-down doctors in COVID times). But the medians were done to address a real issue. I'd be interested to hear from a TexDOT traffic engineer, whose identity is hidden for his own protection, explain the reasoning for the median decision. It probably wasn't as stupid as is figured.

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I just assumed it was federal money that had to be spent so go find some project to spend it on.

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That's what it was.

GSS said:

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trouble said:

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The studies are available. They show a 40-60% reduction in the most deadly crashes. Limiting conflict points AND slowing the vehicles at those points reduces fatal and life altering crashes.

They are inconvenient and annoying but as a former trauma nurse, I'd rather deal with finding an alternate route.

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How many "deadly crashes" occurred on Texas Ave, for the areas the medians now occupy?

And are the studies comparing "apples to apples"? The FM60 & 2818 slalom, errr, diverging diamond intersection never went through any other version...no stop lights, no speed reduction, no change in exit/on ramps. So now the engineers can claim "see, it moves traffic better than before, and studies show that..."

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It isn't like that is the first diverging diamond ever built. It was well established through both modeling and real world experience that diverging diamond increases traffic capacity by something like 70% the traditional highway overpass with traffic lights. Is that traffic volume necessary for that overpass? Probably not most of the time, but given how university backs up after a football game, there are times where it would matter.

Also, when faced with the need to do an upgrade of the intersection and your options are traditional with lights or diverging diamond, and you have projected growth out 60 and along 47 that will use that overpass, maybe you go with a single upgrade rather than do a traditional with lights and then have to redo it again because traffic sucks in 10 years.

trouble said:

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Shocking that the WilCo soccer moms figured out the one in RR without much issue.

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They also have to deal with medians all along 1431, at least east of 35.

The real test for the soccer moms was the intersection they built at Whitestone and Parmer where the people turning left onto Parmer actually cross over a few hundred feet before the intersection and the people turning right onto Whitestone get to drive down the few hundred feet before getting past the left turners where they can merge into Whitestone. Oh, and medians as far as the eye can see on both Parmer and Whitestone.

It is just amazing that anyone can get anywhere in Round Rock will all the exotic intersections and medians.

EliteElectric said:

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****warning personal experience anecdotal evidence incoming****

I have lived in BCS since January 1992, I have never seen a wreck or even heard of a wreck caused by someone turning into the center turning lane to merge. Not once in 33 + years. I have however seen 5 wrecks between vehicles making a u turn and cross traffic in the short time the medians have been installed.

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I have lived in BCS since 2000. Have seen and have investigated NUMEROUS crashes involving left turns across traffic not at an intersection. Usually people trying to turn left into or out of a parking lot who fail to see a car coming in one lane. You know, the good ol' "Well the driver of that car stopped and waved me through so I thought it was clear to turn across both lanes!" Medians stop this crap. Which I support.

Now, as far as u-turns go, yes, ANY left turn can be dangerous. This is not limited to u-turns. There isn't anything inherently worse about an unprotected u-turn. It's on the driver to ensure it's safe before going. I would argue that the better practice is to make a PROTECTED left turn and loop the block to get to your destination (if blocked by a median). This can be done before or after passing the destination.

Just today, I was going to Dent Magic in Bryan (thanks, TexAgs!) and could not turn left (coming from the south) due to the median on Texas Ave. So, I simply continued past the business to the next signal, turned left on a green arrow, turned left on the street running parallel to and behind the business (Cavitt Ave.), and pulled into the back entrance. Wasn't hard and did not require waiting for a break/turning across traffic.

TLDR/hot take: I support the medians

So you went 3/4 of a mile out of your way and waited at the light at Cavitt, and made 3 left turns, at least 2 of which were unprotected, and this is safer?

I would have turned left on Carson then right on Cavitt but I probably drive past there more often than you do.

yeah we're gonna have to agree to disagree here.

Yeah, I wasn't expecting the median till I got there. Return trip went a completely different route. Still wasn't hard.

EliteElectric said:

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So you went 3/4 of a mile out of your way and waited at the light at Cavitt, and made 3 left turns, at least 2 of which were unprotected, and this is safer?

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doubledog said:

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Quote:

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Turning into a left turn lane and then immediately merging is generally illegal and dangerous. The left turn lane is intended for making left turns only, not for merging into traffic. Using it to merge can create hazardous situations as drivers may not anticipate vehicles entering the lane to turn left.

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While I understand people's frustrations, medians do stop the illegal left turns that we ALL saw/see on a daily basis.

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No they don't.

They just move them to the next intersection and back up traffic.