Does anyone really even use it? I've seen a lot of cities are wanting to decrease dart funding 25% and of course there is an uproar.
DART
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Last: 2 mo ago by ChoppinDs40
Yes, I use it
When I'm stuck at a crossing I always see a few homeless on it.
I used to use it daily to go downtown from whiterock, but I've been WFH for about 6 -7 years now.
When I lived in Plano, it was a less than once per year thing.
Last time I rode DART (Plano to Mockingbird Station) was maybe 12 or 13 years ago... to view a movie only showing at the Angelica Theater at MS.
Does anyone use it? Yes. Do enough people use it to justify it? Of course not! I think New York has the only profitable public transit system in the nation. And that was before Covid. Like most government ideas it is a complete waste
I assume we're talking primarily about rail, not busses.
I've taken the train on rare occasion to the fair or Stars/Mavs games. Aside from being somewhat slow, it's worked pretty well. More frequently, I've taken it to DFW. Drops off right at Terminal A.
DART had a golden opportunity to put a station at Love Field 15 or so years ago when they built the orange line, but they botched it. I guess they said it was too expensive. But it should've been a priority regardless. If your train could only go one place, the airport's gotta be near the top of the list.
If they're looking to make more money, maybe they should enforce fairs on the train. And it would probably have the added benefit of clearing out some of the homeless who ride it all day long.
I've taken the train on rare occasion to the fair or Stars/Mavs games. Aside from being somewhat slow, it's worked pretty well. More frequently, I've taken it to DFW. Drops off right at Terminal A.
DART had a golden opportunity to put a station at Love Field 15 or so years ago when they built the orange line, but they botched it. I guess they said it was too expensive. But it should've been a priority regardless. If your train could only go one place, the airport's gotta be near the top of the list.
If they're looking to make more money, maybe they should enforce fairs on the train. And it would probably have the added benefit of clearing out some of the homeless who ride it all day long.
I take the grandkids every now and then just to let them see the other side of life.
I wanna see our defense pissed off, not confused, maybe a little murder in their hearts
Reload12, 11/4/11
People that work downtown probably use it. I did when I was down there.
Texags probably isn't the best place to poll for users though. I'm sure there is a decent population without cars that need it.
Texags probably isn't the best place to poll for users though. I'm sure there is a decent population without cars that need it.
There is station next to our downtown office, Ive seen a few of our Indian engineers jump off the train, but mostly looks like homeless. Im not against taking it to the airport, but never have.
Ive taken the TexRail from downtown FW to the airport, super nice. But ofcourse its not DART
Ive taken the TexRail from downtown FW to the airport, super nice. But ofcourse its not DART
I live a half mile or so from where the silver line is going to cut through far N Dallas. The amount of disruption during this construction phase alone (Hillcrest Rd. shut off for over a year, among other impacts) is ridiculous. I could stomach it if this weren't going to be a worthless money pit that nobody will ride.
I've only taking the rail from downtown Fort Worth to dfw. Also from downtown ftw to victory park for a hockey game
The only way this this ever becomes adopted is if it goes up and down the tollway. With stops at the star, legacy west/shops, 635, loop12, uptown/AAC.
Yup
akaggie05 said:
I live a half mile or so from where the silver line is going to cut through far N Dallas. The amount of disruption during this construction phase alone (Hillcrest Rd. shut off for over a year, among other impacts) is ridiculous. I could stomach it if this weren't going to be a worthless money pit that nobody will ride.
You don't think anyone will ride the silver line from Plano / Richardson to DFW Airport?
McNasty said:akaggie05 said:
I live a half mile or so from where the silver line is going to cut through far N Dallas. The amount of disruption during this construction phase alone (Hillcrest Rd. shut off for over a year, among other impacts) is ridiculous. I could stomach it if this weren't going to be a worthless money pit that nobody will ride.
You don't think anyone will ride the silver line from Plano / Richardson to DFW Airport?
Not even 25% enough to justify it.
Yes. The express busses are really convenient when you live in Dallas and work in west plano.
Saves gas, my car, tolls, etc
Saves gas, my car, tolls, etc
McNasty said:akaggie05 said:
I live a half mile or so from where the silver line is going to cut through far N Dallas. The amount of disruption during this construction phase alone (Hillcrest Rd. shut off for over a year, among other impacts) is ridiculous. I could stomach it if this weren't going to be a worthless money pit that nobody will ride.
You don't think anyone will ride the silver line from Plano / Richardson to DFW Airport?
I doubt it. Trust me, I've run through the scenarios in my mind for my own travel. The options would be:
1. Take the Silver Line. Schlep myself and my luggage (via getting someone to drop me off, or park my car at a station where it'll probably get broken into, assuming overnight parking is even allowed), ride train which per the rough schedule I saw will take over an hour to get to DFW because of all the stops along the way. Fight off any crazy / drugged out street people on the train as a random bonus from time to time. Get dropped off at probably the wrong terminal and go through security and ride Skylink to the correct terminal.
2. Drive from my house straight to the terminal I'm flying out of (~25 minutes) and park in a covered garage that my company reimburses me for.
in your situation definition option 2
I took the orange line once when I lived in uptown near city place. It was nice spending $3 for the ride home but took me almost 2 hours all in.
Not sure I'd do it again. And definitely not with family or kids.
Not sure I'd do it again. And definitely not with family or kids.
I used to use it every day pre-Covid because I had to be at my job by a certain time and it ensured me that I would be there timely (usually). Whereas driving with traffic, you could never judge if you would be on time. I was always surrounded by commuters and life was ok.
Now, I have a new job and only use it once a week. The clientele has changed dramatically post COVID. I'm usually surrounded by homeless now and the amount of people smoking and eating on the train is ridiculous.
There needs to be a barrier to entry to ride. Not sure why there is not.
Now, I have a new job and only use it once a week. The clientele has changed dramatically post COVID. I'm usually surrounded by homeless now and the amount of people smoking and eating on the train is ridiculous.
There needs to be a barrier to entry to ride. Not sure why there is not.
Do they not have DART police regulating the homeless population?
Nope. Just making sure presentable folks who look like they can pay for their fare… are.
That is their standard
DART suffers the same problem as mass transit in many U.S. cities: it isn't an easier or faster way to get from Point A to Point B. Being cheap is practically irrelevant to 80% of the population. The biggest shift in transportation habits in decades have been ride sharing apps, which are often used by people who could take their own car but instead pay a premium for convenience. The residential neighborhoods, work centers, leisure attractions, airports, and even climate are not conducive to a transit system that will be easier than a car in the vast majority of circumstances.
akaggie05 said:McNasty said:akaggie05 said:
I live a half mile or so from where the silver line is going to cut through far N Dallas. The amount of disruption during this construction phase alone (Hillcrest Rd. shut off for over a year, among other impacts) is ridiculous. I could stomach it if this weren't going to be a worthless money pit that nobody will ride.
You don't think anyone will ride the silver line from Plano / Richardson to DFW Airport?
I doubt it. Trust me, I've run through the scenarios in my mind for my own travel. The options would be:
1. Take the Silver Line. Schlep myself and my luggage (via getting someone to drop me off, or park my car at a station where it'll probably get broken into, assuming overnight parking is even allowed), ride train which per the rough schedule I saw will take over an hour to get to DFW because of all the stops along the way. Fight off any crazy / drugged out street people on the train as a random bonus from time to time. Get dropped off at probably the wrong terminal and go through security and ride Skylink to the correct terminal.
2. Drive from my house straight to the terminal I'm flying out of (~25 minutes) and park in a covered garage that my company reimburses me for.
Reimbursed parking sounds good for business travel, especially if it's easy access. For long personal trips, I can see the upside of leaving your car in the garage at home and getting a quick ride (or Uber) to / from home to the rail station to save $ and avoid risking damage to your car in long term parking.
No. They are usually checking tickets of commuters (when these customers are not the issue!) in the morning and evening. If I leave work early in the middle of the day, there are no police on the cars just leaving me with the homeless and people sometimes trying to sell me drugs.
If they do encounter a homeless person in the morning, the worst they do is make them get off at the next stop. I'm sure it's easier than writing them a ticket that they won't pay. And then the homeless just get on the next train.
If they do encounter a homeless person in the morning, the worst they do is make them get off at the next stop. I'm sure it's easier than writing them a ticket that they won't pay. And then the homeless just get on the next train.
I use the DART Rail a lot for Mavs and Stars games. It is extremely convenient compared to parking my own car. I know a lot of folks that park and ride from Mockingbird Station to get to the AAC.
I have a friend that lives in Plano that drives about 5 miles to downtown Plano. He jumps on the DART rail and takes it to his job which is at the Dallas VA. This is his regular M-F commute and it takes about 70 minutes.
Those stories are rare in Dallas, and not as common as they should be....but they are the reality for a lot of low income people that can't afford cars.
Cities should always be looking to reduce the amount of cars on the road or your city will end up like Los Angeles or Houston....a car ridden hell hole full of smog and road rage.
People should also be patient with DART.
The reason that NYC, Washington DC, Paris, London.....etc all have such great public transportation and train systems is that those systems have all been around a lot longer.
The DART rail is still a baby. Its only been around since 1996. Those other systems have been around closer to 100 years.
For many years, people (myself included) complained that there was no EAST-WEST route for the DART Rail. The Silver Line changes that.
If you are a struggling UTD college student with limited funds....you now have the ability to take a train to DFW airport if you are needing to go home for Thanksgiving Break.
If you work in the Cypress Waters area of Dallas/Coppell you could conceivably live in Addison, Richardson or Plano without having to drive to work.
In the long run that makes Cypress Waters an even more appealing spot for business relocations.
I think the areas around the train Stops on the Silver line (Addison, City Line in Richardson, Plano) are all going to see massive mixed used residential development like what you see at the Galatyn Park Station in Richardson.
Over the years one of the biggest problems with DART is that people didn't really live near the stations. As Dallas and its suburbs continue to grow you will start to see more development around these stations.
The biggest problem with DART (as others have mentioned) is fare enforcement. DART needs to find it in the budget to have more officers present to keep the homeless and riff raff off the busses.
More Fare Officers on the trains means that more taxpayers will use it.
I have a friend that lives in Plano that drives about 5 miles to downtown Plano. He jumps on the DART rail and takes it to his job which is at the Dallas VA. This is his regular M-F commute and it takes about 70 minutes.
Those stories are rare in Dallas, and not as common as they should be....but they are the reality for a lot of low income people that can't afford cars.
Cities should always be looking to reduce the amount of cars on the road or your city will end up like Los Angeles or Houston....a car ridden hell hole full of smog and road rage.
People should also be patient with DART.
The reason that NYC, Washington DC, Paris, London.....etc all have such great public transportation and train systems is that those systems have all been around a lot longer.
The DART rail is still a baby. Its only been around since 1996. Those other systems have been around closer to 100 years.
For many years, people (myself included) complained that there was no EAST-WEST route for the DART Rail. The Silver Line changes that.
If you are a struggling UTD college student with limited funds....you now have the ability to take a train to DFW airport if you are needing to go home for Thanksgiving Break.
If you work in the Cypress Waters area of Dallas/Coppell you could conceivably live in Addison, Richardson or Plano without having to drive to work.
In the long run that makes Cypress Waters an even more appealing spot for business relocations.
I think the areas around the train Stops on the Silver line (Addison, City Line in Richardson, Plano) are all going to see massive mixed used residential development like what you see at the Galatyn Park Station in Richardson.
Over the years one of the biggest problems with DART is that people didn't really live near the stations. As Dallas and its suburbs continue to grow you will start to see more development around these stations.
The biggest problem with DART (as others have mentioned) is fare enforcement. DART needs to find it in the budget to have more officers present to keep the homeless and riff raff off the busses.
More Fare Officers on the trains means that more taxpayers will use it.
I agree with you for the most part. But I learned that the silver line is only going to run every 30 minutes during peak hours, and once an hour off peak. Disappointing to hear. Makes it pretty impractical.
double aught said:
I agree with you for the most part. But I learned that the silver line is only going to run every 30 minutes during peak hours, and once an hour off peak. Disappointing to hear. Makes it pretty impractical.
Sucks if true. If the trains are too infrequent, people will choose not to rely on it. It will struggle and fail by design. Your flight is late? Guess you can wait another hour at the airport for the next train.
Exactly.
When I worked downtown it was breakeven to drive my own car and pay the daily surface rate than pay the monthly or daily rail rate. Then tack on picking up and dropping off kids at school and practices, it was just not practical.
I formally rode to medical appointments at the VA. I seem to be a target for a certain population requesting handouts, etc. The very seldom times I have seen a Fare Officer, the officer makes a bee line for me to make sure I have paid the fare.while I see my fellow riders moving from the preoccupied officer..Quote:
The biggest problem with DART (as others have mentioned) is fare enforcement. DART needs to find it in the budget to have more officers present to keep the homeless and riff raff off the busses.
More Fare Officers on the trains means that more taxpayers will use it.
It's may be safe enough for a DART administrator to ride but not for this aging veteran who loathes driving from Collin County to south Dallas on Central Expressway. .
We can't take another four years of this-Tim Walz Caniddate for VP of the United States of America
Kellso said:
People should also be patient with DART.
The reason that NYC, Washington DC, Paris, London.....etc all have such great public transportation and train systems is that those systems have all been around a lot longer.
The DART rail is still a baby. It's only been around since 1996. Those other systems have been around closer to 100 years.
If you are a struggling UTD college student with limited funds....you now have the ability to take a train to DFW airport if you are needing to go home for Thanksgiving Break.
Those cities don't have "great public transportation" because their systems have been around longer. They have high ridership because they offer an easier way to get around those towns. A common denominator between all of the cities you list are urban street grids that were plotted more than a century before the automobile. This simply isn't true of the Metroplex, which was built almost entirely in the era of automobiles. DART will never be an easier or faster way to get around town for the vast, vast majority of trips; like a rounds-to-zero small number.
The DART Rail (opened 1996) isn't substantially older than the DC Metro (opened 1976) if you're using the standard that nearly 30 years of operation makes it "a baby." When the DC Metro was 30 years old, it was carrying over 250,000 people per day and growing compared to DART Rail at 65,000 people per day - with about the same amount of track miles (93 vs 102). Each time a new segment of DART rail is opened, the ridership will grow and then plateau within a few years. There's no need to wait decades to see what will happen. DART is more-or-less at its ceiling today.
It's just so damning that a noteworthy use-case for a $1.1 billion dollar fixed infrastructure investment is "help college students at a campus with 92% Texas residents, 75% of whom commute daily by car, get to the airport cheaply approximately once per semester." You can take DART from UTD to the airport today if cost is your primary consideration.
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