Ciboag96 said:

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Buddies of mine and I have been searching for the perfect 5x5 restaurant in Houston.

The first number:
5 - Delicious meal that stays in your conscience for weeks afterward. You crave to return to feast.
1 - dog food

The second number:
5 - Am I going to get legionnaires disease? Will I get stabbed in the parking lot? Is the waitress smoking a cigarette? High number of stray dogs or broken down cars outside of restaurant contributes to this scale.
1 - They have a maitre-d and clean floors

I have yet to find the perfect 5x5. Come close.

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So is clean floor and dog food the high score.
Or delicious meal and legionnaires disease?

Ciboag96 said:

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Buddies of mine and I have been searching for the perfect 5x5 restaurant in Houston.

The first number:
5 - Delicious meal that stays in your conscience for weeks afterward. You crave to return to feast.
1 - dog food

The second number:
5 - Am I going to get legionnaires disease? Will I get stabbed in the parking lot? Is the waitress smoking a cigarette? High number of stray dogs or broken down cars outside of restaurant contributes to this scale.
1 - They have a maitre-d and clean floors

I have yet to find the perfect 5x5. Come close.

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I haven't been in a few years, but Barbecue Inn fried chicken hits a 5x5 in my book.

Plus, my backyard is in the greater Houston area, so fifth place is the floor.

LA, Vegas, Houston and NOLA all can make an argument for the fifth spot, but NYC, SF, DC and Chicago are on a different level.

I may be the only person on this thread with this opinion, but outside of Harris County my opinion is pretty popular.

Houston is also not widely considered the nation's third best food city. I just googled "best US food cities" and looked at several dozen lists. They were all flawed in different ways, but the overriding pattern across them was that Houston was not listed in the top 3. If listed, it was usually in the 5-10 range.

I am not saying that Houston isn't a great food city, just that there are a handful of other cities that are clearly ahead of it. I think a reasonable argument could be had about whether Houston or LA is better, but I don't think either could reasonably claim they are equal to NYC.

I lived in Houston for 7-8 years. The first half I thought Pappas Steakhouse was the highest form of dining. The second half i understood that I could grill a better steak in my backyard.

Not really, but I did learn about the wide variety of restaurants that are doing more interesting things than steakhouses.

I love Houston food, but it's not in the same class as NYC, Bay Area, or Chicago. The breadth is there, but the top end is missing. Somewhere in the 5-6 range nationally seems right to me.

jh0400 said:

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I love Houston food, but it's not in the same class as NYC, Bay Area, or Chicago. The breadth is there, but the top end is missing. Somewhere in the 5-6 range nationally seems right to me.

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Right on. I'd probably go 6-7 but think it isn't far from 5. Could get there in the next 5-10 years. Certainly the most depth of variety anywhere in the south, but missing the high end like you said. I think that bringing Michelin in will spur innovation at the higher end.

TXAG 05 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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Ciboag96 said:

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Buddies of mine and I have been searching for the perfect 5x5 restaurant in Houston.

The first number:
5 - Delicious meal that stays in your conscience for weeks afterward. You crave to return to feast.
1 - dog food

The second number:
5 - Am I going to get legionnaires disease? Will I get stabbed in the parking lot? Is the waitress smoking a cigarette? High number of stray dogs or broken down cars outside of restaurant contributes to this scale.
1 - They have a maitre-d and clean floors

I have yet to find the perfect 5x5. Come close.

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So is clean floor and dog food the high score.
Or delicious meal and legionnaires disease?

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Yeah, couldn't figure out the grading scale there. Seems like he wants great food served in a junkyard or something.

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Great food at a hole in a wall place.

steve00 said:

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Texaggie7nine said:

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That they left out Houston for so long. 4th largest US city with arguably the best food scene in the nation, yeah. BS. On top of that, their "star" system of 1-3 always was silly to me. Good, fine dining food needs to be very professionally presented, yes, but the pretentiousness of giving higher stars only to those that make plates that look more like art than food is silly to me.

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Houston has a great food scene, but it is not "arguably" the best in the nation.

I think it is certainly top 10, but the highest you could start to make a rational argument for it is probably 5th best, where it is in the discussion with the likes of Los Angeles, Portland, Seattle, Las Vegas, Charleston, New Orleans.

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I'll be first to talk trash on Houston when it is warranted but your list is absolutely laughable. Outside of New York and LA you are not going to find somewhere with the variety of high quality restaurants in Houston

Now, if you were to rename it over priced flashy food cities, then you would be spot on.

New Orleans? Fine, they have undeniably great cajun/seafood. But the rest, Im not sure where they even would come close to the Houston food scene.

NOLA and Charleston are similar, they punch above their weight. You can eat well in both places. Very highly regional though.

I think Houston has as good of food as "the Bay Area" if we're including things that far away from San Fran as Napa. They have excellent French dining and wine far beyond Houston. They don't have Cajun, Seafood, Mexican, BBQ as good as us. I'd say our Vietnamese and Asian cuisine is on par with the Bay Area. That might be a shock to people not from Houston.

I've only been a couple times, why is New York and Chicago the automatic 1-2? For diversity's sake I'd make the same arguments as for SF, we've got them hands down on Cajun/Seafood/Tex-mex/BBQ. Deep dish pizza pies? Bacon Egg and Cheese Biscuits and Bagels?

Was talking to a chef one time that trained on the east coast.

Said the reason that gulf coast struggles is due to the difference in food purveyors.

The top quality ingredients is available on the east coast and it isn't being sent to places like Houston.

Surely you jest! We have high-end Mexican peasant food that goes for $80/lb. You can't tell me NYC can compete on quality peasant fare when price is adjusted for COL.

Texaggie7nine said:

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To be the BEST all round food city, you have to be great in all genres.

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I agree with this statement, but one of the required genres is fine dining, and Houston is not great at it. That is why Houston is not currently a top tier food city.

Bringing Michelin to the city is a clear attempt to solve that. Some of the restaurants that got 1 star may seek to further refine themselves to go for 2 stars. Restaurants that didn't get stars may up their game to try to get one. Chefs from other cities that don't have Michelin may open restaurants in Houston in order to go for a star (knowing that it is much more affordable there than NYC or SF or LA). It isn't going to happen overnight, but maybe in 5-10 years there will be a noticeable change.

I feel like an elevated Southern concept that integrates multiple genres like a cocktail lounge and brewpub could do really well.

"Stars & Bars" is my working title for this future establishment. Please nobody steal.

Like a more "southern" style Heights Bier Garten?

NYC is the only food scene clearly better than Houston across all levels whether it's for high-end or diversity. And even their diversity isn't that much different or better than Houston. Believe it or not but Houston has a more widely varied scene for ASian

Chicago has far more high-end than Houston for sure but they lack the diversity and quality at multiple price points that Houston has.

SF/Bay Area is similar to Chicago in that vein. Very, very strong at the top end (especially if you include Napa) but lacking in diversity and quality across multiple price points. LA is the same.

Portland? GTFO.

New Orleans is fantastic and has tremendous fine-dining but as pointed out it's pretty narrow within the classic Creole cuisines. Same for Charleston or Savannah- great food but within a fairly limited spectrum.

This summary of Houston's scene from David Chang is nearly a decade old but the truth of this perspective is still 100% accurate: David Chang on Houston's food scene

JCA1 said:

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Lathspell said:

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Never been to a Michelin Star restaurant, and honestly would feel too intimidated to try. Granted, looking at some of those menus, the prices weren't as bad as I was expecting.

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You shouldn't feel intimidated and, if a particular restaurant looks good to you, you should go for it.

I certainly do not come from an upper crust background, but have been fortunate enough to eat at a number of Michelin starred restaurants. Even the ones that seem the most uppity at a distance (say, The French Laundry) aren't that way in person. The staff at every high end place I've been goes out of their way to make people feel at home. Just be nice and I guarantee you the staff couldn't care less.

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You have to remember that 90+% of the restaurant staff industry is comprised of stoners, alcoholics and cokeheads (or a combination thereof) just trying to make ends meet. I always try to vibe with them moreso than the stuffy dining crowd, many of whom left the house with every intention to impress random stangers at a nice restaurant.

Quote:

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Believe it or not but Houston has a more widely varied scene for ASian

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Agreed on this. Undeniable fact.

The post I was responding to said that Houston had arguably the best food scene in the nation, with no qualifiers. I disputed that. You have added 3 qualifiers that all skew favorably toward Houston. We are not talking about the same things.

It's like if I said A&M was clearly not the best team in the SEC this year, and you said actually they were the best team in the SEC that wears maroon and white and has yell leaders.

The rest of your post is a strange fairytale. Every city is going to have more bad restaurants than good ones. Bad ones often don't last long, but so many bad ones constantly open up that there are always more bad ones open than good ones. Houston is not magically immune to this.

There is no way you can bank on any random independent restaurant in Houston (or any other city) you stop at being good.

JCA1 said:

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jh0400 said:

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I love Houston food, but it's not in the same class as NYC, Bay Area, or Chicago. The breadth is there, but the top end is missing. Somewhere in the 5-6 range nationally seems right to me.

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This is pretty spot on. We are lacking the uber high stuff like French Laundry, Alinea, etc. I'd probably rank us somewhere between 4 and 6 and your top 3 seems about right.

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Agree. Really after those 3, it becomes a matter of taste/preference.

steve00 said:

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The post I was responding to said that Houston had arguably the best food scene in the nation, with no qualifiers. I disputed that. You have added 3 qualifiers that all skew favorably toward Houston. We are not talking about the same things.

It's like if I said A&M was clearly not the best team in the SEC this year, and you said actually they were the best team in the SEC that wears maroon and white and has yell leaders.

The rest of your post is a strange fairytale. Every city is going to have more bad restaurants than good ones. Bad ones often don't last long, but so many bad ones constantly open up that there are always more bad ones open than good ones. Houston is not magically immune to this.

There is no way you can bank on any random independent restaurant in Houston (or any other city) you stop at being good.

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May have slightly exaggerated, but most of those cities you mentioned have trash food in general.

Vegas? LOL. We murder Vegas.