On Saturday, someone told me that the wind generator people think they are going to need thirty houses in Gruver and long term office space in town.

I have no idea whether the houses they mention are rental houses or houses they want to build or buy. In either case, that could mean a boost for local property values. Houses in Gruver haven't seen anything close to the same run-up in prices seen elsewhere in the country, but nonperforming mortgages and foreclosure don't seem likely to be much of a problem, either.

Apparently with the number of wind generators going in now and projected in the future, they are going to want to open permanent offices here.

Anyway, I don't know how accurate the rumors are. Usuaully, but not always, such rumors have some basis in fact.

One thing that is overlooked in this energy discussion is energy conservation. Reducing your energy consumption doesn't require maintenance etc. We all need to reduce our consumption first then build more power generation.

The USDA-ARS and Sandia eggbeater (Darrius turbine) was dropped and cewed up into small pieces by a grinder machine and hauled away.

If they're putting in the large wind generators, those numbers are incorrect. The energy companies will tell folks they'll put 10 windmills per section. But they never do.

They want a turbine about every half-mile, running east to west. Then they want about a mile space before the next east/west row. Any closer it it steals wind.

Most windmills run less than half the time. They only run long enough to pay some bills and get the tax credit. Once that is reached, they idle. That's why you saw most of them not spinning during a windy day.

They are plenty of ways they can harm a ranch besides what has been mentioned. They don't want hunting anywhere near them. That hurts your hunting lease opportunity. They're ugly, so that hurts your hunting as well.

Building really nice roads looks great, but they are built for wind company. Those new roads might act as levee. So the pasture downhill from road doesn't get the usual runoff. Most wind farms are in arid West Texas where runoff is critical.

You now have workers coming in/out of ranch daily. If you don't think that's a problem, then you've never ranched.

Around here, we see about 8 in a row in a mile or so.

[This message has been edited by eric76 (edited 7/29/2008 6:58a).]

The proposed plan for our wind farm is 8 per section. Every 1/4 section to have 2, then the next line 1/2 mile south.

Does anyone know what companies are putting these up? I'm a civil engineer in amarillo looking for a job, and thought there has to be some good oppotunities seeing as how these are up all over the place. Most of my experience is with construction management, so I would think I'd have a good fit with a company.

One of them in Hansford County is a company called Energy Works North America.

I'm told that they aren't hiring at all, but they basically do some of the site works. There are a number of contractors doing the construction.

[This message has been edited by eric76 (edited 8/7/2008 5:40p).]

Airtricity is one of the companies in this area.

http://highplainsobserver.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=243&twindow=Default&mad=No&sdetail=6792&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1706&hn=highplainsobserver&he=.com

Wind Turbine Technician Needed

A thread on windpower on the Business & Politics Board:

http://texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=1213443&forum_id=16

Hilliard Energy is another one.

Wind whips up health fears

I read that article.

It makes you wonder if you need to move to town when you get wind generators nearby.

I hate noise when I sleep. Coyotes, dogs, cattle, and horses are okay. Airplanes, cars, and trucks keep me from sleeping. The steady drone of an irrigation engine a mile away isn't too bad.

One of the worst for me is if you are in town and your neighbor is playing music loud and what you are hearing is the thump of the bass. Also car doors being slammed.

In the late 70s, I lived behind the Dixie Chicken one summer at A&M in the house from the front porch song. Because of the noise, I found it impossible to get to sleep until after 3 am on Friday morning, Saturday morning, and Sunday morning.

quote:

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For people to think the windmills will be "free" energy once they are built is foolish (imho). There will be significant cost in maintenance/replacement/royalties to transport the potentially inconsistent power, when the nuclear power will be closer to the demand.

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A follow-up on this thought:

At the game this weekend, I was talking to the person who has season tickets next to me, with whom I have become good friends. A month ago he forwarded me an email on the Pickens Plan, etc. We got to talking about it at the game and I told him how I was fearful that in the future that there could be thousands of windmills just rusting and deteriorating (i.e. after this country pulls its head out and goes nuclear) - all the while people touting how once they are built there will be little to no maintenance required, etc.

That vision reminded him of the Big Island of Hawaii (he is a retired Air Force Col.) - where he said there were wind farms deteriorating, etc. He said it was an embarrassment to see....

So, I decided to go look on the web for these pictures. Just think if they are deteriorating in Hawaii where they are close to the energy demand....what will happen to the Great Plains where they are hundreds of miles from the energy demand? Or when the subsidies end....

quote:

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The Kamaoa Wind Farm, originally built in 1987 had 37, 250kw Mitsubishi turbines producing 9.3 Megwatts at it's peak. the reason for the bad condition of the Hawaii turbines is lack of maintenance. In the 1980s there was a federal program that heavily reimbursed demonstration wind projects. Many of these projects were built during this time, particularly in the Altamont Pass in California. Once the reimbursements ended, developers of these projects gave up maintenance.

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just some food for thought before you load up on Pickens snake oil

smells like money to me...

things don't rust in the desert like they do near the ocean

this picture is from just north of Roscoe...too bad it was so foggy

I may be totally off base, but don't they lease the surface rights for a LONG time?

My folks have told me that Pickens etc. is trying to buy up the surface rights, but he won't necessarily put up turbines. All we would get is lease money. No turbine = no royalty.

The gas leases and wheat crops are still a much better deal IMHO.

This is Carson County area.

I need to do more research.

I was talking to someone the other day who owns land in an area where wind generators already have a strong presence. (They also have a good deal of land around here as well.)

They said that they were approached about signing a contract on some property in one area to put wind generators on it. After reviewing the contract, they felt that the whole thing was very one-sided on behalf of the wind generator people. The contract basically gave the wind generator people the power to do just about anything and everything they wished on the land whether even if it wasn't at all necessary. Although it meant a lot of money, they couldn't bring themselves to sign the contract.

sounds like the land owners need to form a cooperative and find a way to bring in their own generators

Only the big boys get to play in this game.

It's all based on tax credits. Very few farmers make enough money that they could begin to use the tax credits they would get.

I got curious about this since there is such a local love affair with wind. My numbers are attached so take it for what it is worth.

My conclusions "clean energy does not mean cheap energy":
1.) These project economics don't work on their own (maybe with tax credits or subsidies)
2.) Landowners are the only ones who make money
3.) The cost of the energy per kwh is no lower for the consumer and probably actually needs to be higher than coal or natural gas fired plants to get RORs.

I was talking to one well-known local family who was approached about putting wind generators on some land they own somewhere outside this county.

After reviewing the rights they'd have to give away to get the deal, they decided that they couldn't live with the deal and turned them down flat.

They said that they would basically have to give up pretty much all of their rights.

Everything is negotiable. Trust me--if you are dealing with the right company and have the right attorney, you can get a lease that allows you to farm, ranch, produce O&G, or hunt. Of course, if you just sign whatever they send you as a first draft, it's not going to be as favorable to the land owner.

I also tend to agree that these deals wouldn't go anywhere without the tax credits.

Does anyone know what the speciic tax credits are?

The ones I know of are:
1.) Production Tax Credit of 1.9 cents/kwh
2.) Accelerated Depreciation rather than straight line on capital investments
3.) California offers a 7.5% state income tax credit on the purchase and installation costs of solar or wind energy systems (not sure about other states or federal)

The other day, I talked to someone who has had wind generators on his property for a while now. He said that the royalty payments he's receiving are significantly lower than what he was originally led to expect them to be.

http://www.amarillo.com/stories/111908/bus_biz1.shtml