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Statistically, El Paso County auto fatality rates compare pretty favorably with the national average and with other Texas counties.

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It is hard to get in a wreck when you drive 40 mph down an interstate!

Not to mention a good number of collisions go unreported due to lack of insurance.

My pickup got sideswiped while parked not once but twice in the same neighborhood. Twice someone neglected to stop or leave a note.

If you have to keep digging up statistics to convince people a place is good to live in, it probably sucks.

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Not to mention a good number of collisions go unreported due to lack of insurance.

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The statistics I gave were for automobile accident fatalities. It's pretty unlikely for those to go unreported (the police usually notice when there is a dead person on the street). Of course, that doesn't give the complete picture of "quality of driving", but I would say it's the most important, and I don't know of any reason that it would not be representative of relative overall accident rates when compared to other urban counties. However, if you prefer anecdotal information, I was never in an accident in 14 years in El Paso, but have been hit once in 3 years in Houston and twice in 4 years in California.

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My pickup got sideswiped while parked not once but twice in the same neighborhood. Twice someone neglected to stop or leave a note. If you have to keep digging up statistics to convince people a place is good to live in, it probably sucks.

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I had two bikes stolen during my four years on the A&M campus. Does that mean I would be justified in claiming that A&M is the crime capital of the world, despite any statistics to the contrary? I certainly agree that there is too much crime, pollution, disease, bad driving, etc. in El Paso (as well as most everywhere else), but, for every anecdotal incident mentioned on this thread, you could find ones to match from any other city, and only by looking at statistics can you see if generalizations drawn from such anecdotal information are accurate.

That said, I am not arguing that it is wrong to feel that El Paso "sucks". Whether you like a place or not is ultimately a very subjective opinion, and your opinion is just as valid as mine. However, often people will dislike something for very legitimate reasons but then unfairly view every aspect of it negatively, which leads to opinions such as jlvaughn's first post. I'm just trying to provide some facts so that people can like what is actually good, not like what is actually not good, and decide for themselves whether it sucks.

agdoc2001 - thanks for the correction

[This message has been edited by CS3 (edited 12/13/2006 11:45a).]

The thing about El Paso is you have to find your own niche. My above post was not trying to reflect an overall negative view of El Paso, but if I had a choice (which I do not) I would never choose to live here. The driver's, while perhaps not completely accident prone, seem to be oblivious to basic tenants of driving. While attempting to steer away from stereotypes, seemingly most of these problems come from the Chihuahua plates. Some examples: driving in the far left lane at 40 mph on an interstate; not using a turn signal; merging into oncoming traffic like the lane is reserved for you, and going 40 mph. I don't know about the statistics, but my insurance did go up about $20 a month when I lived here, probably due to auto theft. I will agree, that there seems to be no fear of walking around at night anywhere near my neighborhood, which is relatively close to downtown. It does seem pretty safe. I live in a neighborhood called Kern Place. I absolutely love it, inside the neighborhood. The place I lived before that absolutely sucked, East El Paso. The cookie cutter houses are being slapped up faster than you can get a piece of action in downtown Juarez. Don't try to go to Wal Mart anytime before 9 p.m, and if you are a Protestant, churches are hard to come by unless you enjoy that mission type feel church. Compared to most other places in Texas and U.S. for that matter, the service as a general rule sucks. I once had a surly waitress tell me what I ordered after bringing me the wrong dish. The guy at Denver Mattress, after telling me they did not have any more of a certain couch, swore he had no way of finding the number to the Las Cruces store to see if they had one. I know you can find incidents of this type anywhere, but my experience here has taught people don't have the same customer relations attitudes that I have experienced elsewhere in my wide travels.

So basically, El Paso sucks.

Obejuan03, while I usually had somewhat better luck with customer service and at my church, I think your comments are generally fair.

CS3 - pretty good posts & (not to be a d#ck), but the word you're looking for is "anecdotal".

Before I moved to El Paso, I was prepared for the worst. Everyone told me how horrible it was over & over. So when I got here, I was actually relieved that it wasn't as bad as I had been told. However, once the relief wears off & you begin comparing El Paso to other cities, instead of the terrible preconceived notions you formerly held, it doesn't compare very favorably.

I find myself getting annoyed more easily with each month that passes. Doing 40 on the freeway, groups walking shoulder to shoulder in the store so no one can get by, parents that let their kids run rampant in public places... And to top it all off, apparently the A&M club in the area is awful, so there isn't even anyone to watch games with. But hey, 1.5 more years & I'm gone!

The reason the club "sucks" is because nobody comes. I know there are more Ags out there than what is represented. So please come, the more we get, the more fun we can have. Right now it is a couple of young Army guys (myself and a class of '03 buddy of mine) and a bunch of guys that are pre '95 at least. We need some young blood in the group to liven it up.

The next meeting will be the first Wed of Jan at Cappettos on Montana. Hope to see you all there.

One of our Ags here in El Paso is working to secure a private room at Jaxon's on Airway for a Holiday Bowl watch party. It's not a done deal yet and I will post when something is established somewhere. Hopefully we'll have a good turnout.

I don't understand the love fest for El Paso by some of you guys. You can point at statistics all you want, but you can't argue the fact that El Paso has very little to offer for an urban professional, both professionally and socially.

Unless you are in a service profession (I'm including lawyers, bankers, doctors) or in manufacturing, El Paso offers almost no commercial opportunities for you. I would venture to say that most professionals in El Paso make 50% of what they would make elsewhere in Texas, and the cost of living is not 1/2 of the rest of the state. The business community is very small, and it is always the same people at the same places, all of the time. In fact, most of the 'business leaders' are just running daddy's business into the ground. They haven't broken any waves themselves, and can't even maintain Dad's business.

The per capita income is incredibly low, and its a town where you can't own anything nice. The jealousy exhibited by the less fortunate residents is amazing. They can't own the mercedes, so by their logic, they may as well damage yours to level the playing field.

Viva la raza!

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I would venture to say that most professionals in El Paso make 50% of what they would make elsewhere in Texas...The per capita income is incredibly low

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Unlike many of the others mentioned on this thread, the "stereotype" that El Paso is relatively poor is accurate (although the difference is perhaps not quite as great as some think -- about $22,800 per capita personal income in El Paso versus $36,000 national average http://bea.gov/bea/newsrel/MPINewsRelease.htm).

The unemployment rate is also higher but not by that much (compare, for example, El Paso at 6.6% to Houston at 6.0% and Dallas at 5.8% http://www.bls.gov/lau/lacilg05.htm).

However, most of the difference in income is due to the relatively large percentage of El Pasoans that don't have the skills or education for high-paying jobs. While there are many factors to consider in making such a comparison, for a given person that does have such credentials, the difference in pay may not, in general, be as great as the guess you ventured.

For example, according to salary.com, someone making $75,000 a year in Austin and relocating to El Paso would see his/her pay decrease 6.1% but cost of living decrease 8.1%, for a net gain of $1543 in disposable income.

http://swz.salary.com/costoflivingwizard/layoutscripts/coll_result.asp?presentsalary=75000&presenthomemetrocode=11&presentworkmetrocode=11&newhomemetrocode=56&newworkmetrocode=56&tlocation=11&newlocation=56&x=20&y=4

As a random example for a specific job, an IT "Applications Engineer I" would be expected to make $50,861 in Austin and $47,776 in El Paso.

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_compresult.asp?jobcode=EN04100097&jobaltername=Applications+Engineer+I&jobtitle=Applications+Engineer+I&narrowdesc=IT+%2D%2D+All&narrowcode=IT03&zipcode=&metrocode=11&statecode=TX&state=Texas&pagenumber=1&searchpage=&searchtype=&geo=Austin%2C+TX

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_compresult.asp?jobcode=EN04100097&jobaltername=Applications+Engineer+I&jobtitle=Applications+Engineer+I&narrowdesc=IT+%2D%2D+All&narrowcode=IT03&zipcode=&metrocode=56&statecode=TX&state=Texas&pagenumber=1&searchpage=&searchtype=&geo=El+Paso%2C+TX

Of course, there are many more jobs in fields such as high-tech and in Fortune 500 companies in other places (though also more people chasing those jobs). I would certainly imagine that it would be difficult for people wanting to climb the corporate ladder to the top of their profession in large businesses to find a job in El Paso comparable to what they could find elsewhere. In many cases, however, people who want to can and do make a perfectly fine living in El Paso (including, as you correctly noted, in service professions). Growing up, my dad, a PhD mathematician, worked in El Paso, Houston, and Austin, and we had pretty similar standards of living in each place.

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The jealousy exhibited by the less fortunate residents is amazing. They can't own the mercedes, so by their logic, they may as well damage yours to level the playing field.

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While I have no way of knowing whether more people who do vandalize do so out of jealousy in El Paso than elsewhere, based on the crime statistics I posted earlier, a Mercedes shouldn't in general be in more danger in El Paso than most other places.

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I don't understand the love fest for El Paso by some of you guys.

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I don't mean to start a "love fest" for El Paso; many people (including myself) have better job opportunities and/or more affinity for other places. However, for those who do end up living in El Paso, such as the original poster, I just don't think they should feel like they are being sent to a hell-hole as described by some of the other posts on this thread.


[This message has been edited by CS3 (edited 12/21/2006 6:18p).]

My family moved to El Paso this past summer for a 3 year assignment. Found a place in Horizon City which is east of the city. Not too bad, but the wife really hates it here. School district is horrible (and we are in the one considered the best here), the home builders are horrible, lack of infrastructure, I-10 in El Paso is the worst maintained interstate the country (not to mention lack of trafficable lanes), drivers horrible, hard to understand the english here in day-to-day errands (govt offices, post office, banking, shopping, etc). At least my work environment is nice and run into Aggies all the time around here. But that's about it.

On the topic of unemployment...

In most cities most of us know exactly where to go to pick up day laborers. I can't say that for El Paso. I haven't seen the normal groups at Home Depot or places of the like.

Why? Because here they can all find someone to employ them.