I'm planning on buying a mini bike for my son next year and would like to buy something to chase him around on our property, plus have the option of taking on roads. I was leaning towards dual sports, but a small adventure bike like the Kawasaki Versys 300 or BMW G310GS looks intriguing. We live in the middle of the National Forest with hundreds of miles of dirt roads, so the longer range and comfort combined with off-road capability seems like it would be a good fit. Anyone have any advice? Not interested in the bigger bikes, I'm average sized and the KLR 650 is bigger than I'd like to handle from the little I've ridden one.

I can whole heartedly recommend the Suzuki DL650. The smaller of the two V-stroms. I rode the DL1000 for years and all over the place. Excellent bikes. The 650 is not very large and can be lowered a bit.

I had the 650 but I'm 6'1" 250 my buddy had I think the Suzuki and it was considerably smaller. I think it was a 450. I currently lust after the Africa Twin and the new Harley.

I have always wanted one but I currently have a 2020 Honday Monkey. Its pretty fun but small. If you aren't looking for highway use it might be worth looking at. Also check out the TW200 or the Honda CT125.

I have a 22 BMW R1250 GS Adventure, been riding for 55 years and this is the best motorcycle I've ever ridden. Most likely over kill for chasing a young'en around on though. Given your background probably not gonna be the bike for you. It's huge

Definitely not looking at anything over 1000cc, and experienced enough riding I don't want anything under 300ish. The Honda CRF300L Rally has been at the top of my list for a while, but the on-road manners of the 2 I mentioned would be nice. I just enjoy nimble bikes, if I wasn't wanting to get on the road I'd probably buy a 125 2 stroke and be done with it.

TSW2012 said:

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I had the 650 but I'm 6'1" 250 my buddy had I think the Suzuki and it was considerably smaller. I think it was a 450. I currently lust after the Africa Twin and the new Harley.

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Suzuki makes two 650's. The DR650 is a big dirt bike. The DL650 is mostly streetbike with longer suspension. Both are great, but if you are inseam challeneged the DL is already closer to the ground, and can easily be lowered some more.

CenterHillAg said:

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Definitely not looking at anything over 1000cc, and experienced enough riding I don't want anything under 300ish. The Honda CRF300L Rally has been at the top of my list for a while, but the on-road manners of the 2 I mentioned would be nice. I just enjoy nimble bikes, if I wasn't wanting to get on the road I'd probably buy a 125 2 stroke and be done with it.

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https://texags.com/forums/50/topics/3343849

Believe me, I've thought about it!

I've ridden the Aprilia Tuareg, and it's awesome. I had a Yamaha Super Tenere, and my wife still has one. Great bikes, but much bigger than what you are looking at. KLR 650's are awesome, do anything bikes.

The Pan America is a really nice bike. A buddy has one and loves it. It is a much better bike than I expected HD to be able to put out.

maverick2076 said:

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The Pan America is a really nice bike. A buddy has one and loves it. It is a much better bike than I expected HD to be able to put out.

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I have one and it is a great bike. Service at HD is so much better than the big 4 powersports dealers. Ironically, I am debating selling it though due to my riding buddy quitting.

I think that really depends on the dealership. I've had some excellent service at metric dealers, piss poor service from HD, and vice versa. For actual service, it's hard to beat a good independent mechanic.

Parts availability is about the only real issue he's had with his PA. For example, his stator went out, and it's a 2 month backorder.

Hard to beat the fun of a two stroke 125. No torque but banging through those screaming gears on a tight trail is a blast!

Ive ridden the Versys 300 on gravel roads and that's about all I would want to do on one of them. The suspension is not there to take on much more. It has the engine out of the sport bike which does make it fun to ride though because it revs to the moon compared to my XR650L or 500exc.

I really like the look of the honda rally 300, check out itchy boots on youtube. She rode one from south america to alaska on all types of roads.

I havent ridden the GS 300 but I did ride the GS 800 and it is one of the best bikes Ive ever ridden. A GS850 is going to be my next bike... one day. the GS felt much more comfortable off road and rides more like a dirtbike than a cruiser. It's hard for me to explain but the versys takes alot of steering input from leaning rather than handlebar input which I did not like. I think it comes from the rake angle of the front wheel

Anybody know anything about the Suzuki DR-650 and / or the DRZ-400S?

The oil cooled DR 650 seems like the simpler design.

The 400 has higher compression, is higher revving and liquid cooled. It also has some kind of design with oil running through the frame.

The 400 is lighter, taller and with better suspension.

The 650 is supposed to be rock solid. Built since 1990.

Both still assembled in Japan.

Whoa the 650 is still air cooled? I haven't paid much attention over the last 10 years since selling my last KLR and never riding my GSA.

I had a drz400e that I made street legal and put sumo tires on it. No problems and it was a blast. I've heard the 650s are great, the decision probably lays in how you'll ride. If highway often then go with the 650.

The DRZ400 isn't a complicated or high maintenance design. Pretty standard overhead cam water cooled motorcycle engine that's been around over 20 years.

Kawasaki KLX 300 is fuel injected and liquid cooled.

https://www.twtex.com/forums/threads/price-drop-2017-ktm-690-enduro-r-dual-sport-7-000-firm.133812/

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Anybody know anything about the Suzuki DR-650 and / or the DRZ-400S?

The oil cooled DR 650 seems like the simpler design.

The 400 has higher compression, is higher revving and liquid cooled. It also has some kind of design with oil running through the frame.

The 400 is lighter, taller and with better suspension.

The 650 is supposed to be rock solid. Built since 1990.

Both still assembled in Japan.

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I basically breaks down like this: The 400 is better in the rough stuff, deep sand, rocks, whatever, but suffers on the open road. The 650 can do highway at 80 for 100's of miles, and still be respectable off road, but is heavier and with less sophisticated suspension.

The 400 is what you ride if you can't trailer your bike to the trails. The 650 is what you ride around the world.



FWIW, I ride a DR650. An older, 94 model with the rad 90's graphics.

clobby said:

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https://www.twtex.com/forums/threads/price-drop-2017-ktm-690-enduro-r-dual-sport-7-000-firm.133812/

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What would be the car manufacturer equivalent of KTM?

Japanese bikes look like they were made for the masses but it looks like KTM takes it to a different level as far as making a high performance product.

What are they doing that far and above what you get out of the Japanese bikes?

What are you getting out of these fuel injected dual sport bikes?

Whats the downside?

You got to higher altitudes you got some issues with the carb jetting. Fuel injection automatically adjusts for that.

So whats the argument for fuel injection on a mass market dual sport bike? Reliability?

Is there that big of a performance difference? Are carbs on these bikes that much of a pain in the ass to deal with?

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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clobby said:

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https://www.twtex.com/forums/threads/price-drop-2017-ktm-690-enduro-r-dual-sport-7-000-firm.133812/

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What would be the car manufacturer equivalent of KTM?

Japanese bikes look like they were made for the masses but it looks like KTM takes it to a different level as far as making a high performance product.

What are they doing that far and above what you get out of the Japanese bikes?

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Well, they're Austrian soooo. I guess BMW?

They act like BMW's too. Very nice when they are working properly. Very expensive when they aren't, which is pretty often.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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What are you getting out of these fuel injected dual sport bikes?

Whats the downside?

You got to higher altitudes you got some issues with the carb jetting. Fuel injection automatically adjusts for that.

So whats the argument for fuel injection on a mass market dual sport bike? Reliability?

Is there that big of a performance difference? Are carbs on these bikes that much of a pain in the ass to deal with?

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Carbs are not a pain at all IF you ride it at least weekly and keep it exercised. The beauty of EFI is that it will start and run if it's 20 or 120 outside. It'll run at 10k feet as well as it does at sea level. They are also pretty darn reliable today. Bike EFI is pretty simple still compared to cars and will happily hibernate all winter long and fire right up in spring with a fresh battery.

Even the first gen EFI's in the early 2000's were reliable. They just didn't adapt to as wide a range of conditions. My 2005 V-Strom 1000 didn't have an O2 sensor in it. It just guessed based on RPM, engine temp, and air temp and flow. It did OK, but had some problems that needed to be tuned out right at 4000 RPM, which conveniently is where the EPA tested them for emissions.....

Carbs are stone reliable, but do not adapt to wild elevation changes, and can be hard to start when cold, or restart when hot. They do not suffer being left in the garage for months at a time though. Those tiny little passages get clogged with todays corn squeezins we call fuel.

What problems have you had over the years with your DR650?

Seems like the negative comments you see on the Suzukis is they haven't been updated in 20+ years, but this also may be an advantage. If you are looking at reliability, cost of ownership, available accessories, Suzuki seems like the way to go.

I also read where the reason thay haven't updated anything is because the current design wouldn't pass EPA and they are grandfathered in with the existing design.

Have also read this about the TW200 which has also remained unchanged for 20+ years.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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What problems have you had over the years with your DR650?

Seems like the negative comments you see on the Suzukis is they haven't been updated in 20+ years, but this also may be an advantage. If you are looking at reliability, cost of ownership, available accessories, Suzuki seems like the way to go.

I also read where the reason thay haven't updated anything is because the current design wouldn't pass EPA and they are grandfathered in with the existing design.

Have also read this about the TW200 which has also remained unchanged for 20+ years.

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No problems really. Just tires, chains, gas and oil.

It took a bit to get the jetting dialed in and good. But once thats done you never do it again, unless you move to Colorado.

I did have the stock vacuum operated petcock go bad and it was leaking fuel. Bought a manual petcock and never thought about it again.

The most reliable vehicles are the ones that go largely unchanged for many many years. If there was a serious flaw in that design it would cost the manufacturer money on warranty repairs. The DR650 is not much more complicated than a lawn mower really. I like that simplicity.

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I did have the stock vacuum operated petcock go bad and it was leaking fuel. Bought a manual petcock and never thought about it again.

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Was reading up on that issue where some folks had changed out their petcock to a Yamaha petcock for the same reason. Sounds like a minor design defect.

Thats my same argument for Toyota, and particularly the Tacoma and 4Runner with proven engines that are a decade old. Seems like by the time a manufacturer works the kinks out they rolling out a new model and you start the process again.

Newness and reliability are inverse of each other. Any sort of new equipment takes several years to shakedown.

So on that basis, I'm about sold on one of the Suzukis unless someone can talk me out of it.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Quote:

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I did have the stock vacuum operated petcock go bad and it was leaking fuel. Bought a manual petcock and never thought about it again.

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So on that basis, I'm about sold on one of the Suzukis unless someone can talk me out of it.

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I'd say just do it. There's a very good reason why the DR650 has quietly been one of the top choices for around-the-world-travellers for the last 3 decades.

Tim Weaver said:

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Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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clobby said:

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https://www.twtex.com/forums/threads/price-drop-2017-ktm-690-enduro-r-dual-sport-7-000-firm.133812/

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What would be the car manufacturer equivalent of KTM?

Japanese bikes look like they were made for the masses but it looks like KTM takes it to a different level as far as making a high performance product.

What are they doing that far and above what you get out of the Japanese bikes?

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Well, they're Austrian soooo. I guess BMW?

They act like BMW's too. Very nice when they are working properly. Very expensive when they aren't, which is pretty often.

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I rebuilt the carb on my 2004 250 exc a few years ago. I've refrained from putting any ethanol gas in it since then and it hasn't missed a beat. I've been riding it and ripping on it daily for the last six weeks and it starts like it's fuel injected.

I don't think you're going to see a big reliability difference in the high end four strokes singles of the Japanese bikes and KTM. Those are all high maintenance, but the dual sport single cylinder bikes should all be fairly reliable, especially the air cooled stuff. Even the hotter two strokes need top ends rebuilt every 30 hours or so, but the trail bikes can go longer.

This KTM 1190 Adventure seems like the Porsche 911 of dual sport bikes.

I do mountain biking. How does a dirt bike translate to mountain biking handling. Anyone do both? Sounds like a 400 would be a good place to start. I'm in the Austin area and ride Emma Long with a bike, doubt I would try that on a dirt bike

Awesome!