Full size SUV's

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TH36
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8:47p, 5/29/24
So what's everyone's opinion on the full size SUV options out there? Will most likely be buying used…let's say in the 2020-Now range.

I would prefer a Tahoe/Suburban or Yukon/Yukon XL. I don't really want to mess with that Ford twin turbo V6 crap but if you can change my mind, I'm all ears.

Part of the allure to the GM stuff is I feel more confident it would tow my bay boat if I ever wanted to.

Probably going to take my wife to drive some this weekend so she can see what she likes as this will be her vehicle. I've got a 2016 Dodge 2500 Laramie that we currently take on all road trips with the kids. Her current car is a 2012 Hyundai Santa Fe and it absolutely sucks with 2 kids and a car full of *****
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ChoppinDs40
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9:31p, 5/29/24
AG
I'd say the 3.5 v6 turbo is more reliable than the lifter issue on the GMs. Unless… you go for the baby Duramax. Then… profit.
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Earth Rider
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9:42p, 5/29/24
AG
Toyota Land Cruiser, it will tow anything, give you no trouble, and is perfect for a wife and two kids. It has plenty of space with the third row down, and if you have even more cr*p, you can get a pak mule swayback made for it.

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vansprinkle
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In reply to TH36 • 9:56p, 5/29/24
AG
TH36 said:
So what's everyone's opinion on the full size SUV options out there? Will most likely be buying used…let's say in the 2020-Now range.

I would prefer a Tahoe/Suburban or Yukon/Yukon XL. I don't really want to mess with that Ford twin turbo V6 crap but if you can change my mind, I'm all ears.

Part of the allure to the GM stuff is I feel more confident it would tow my bay boat if I ever wanted to.

Probably going to take my wife to drive some this weekend so she can see what she likes as this will be her vehicle. I've got a 2016 Dodge 2500 Laramie that we currently take on all road trips with the kids. Her current car is a 2012 Hyundai Santa Fe and it absolutely sucks with 2 kids and a car full of *****

Pretty sure the Expedition will out tow the GM products, not just based on their published numbers, but the turbo 6 has tons of low end torque.

I have a 6,000lbs ski boat and my turbo 6 pulls it easily. A bay boat will be a piece of cake for GM, Ford, Jeep Wagoneers, or Toyota Sequoia.

I'll be in the same boat as you soon and my wife and I plan on test driving everything we can get our hands on. Each option seems to have its positives and we won't know which is absolute best for us until we try them all.
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1agswitchin4lanes
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In reply to ChoppinDs40 • 10:34p, 5/29/24
AG
ChoppinDs40 said:
I'd say the 3.5 v6 turbo is more reliable than the lifter issue on the GMs. Unless… you go for the baby Duramax. Then… profit.


Just make sure you get a 11/22 build date or newer or set aside money/extended warranty for the Transmission.

113k on a Expy max. Just finished a 1300 mile road trip to Florida and back and didn't skip a beat.
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TH36
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In reply to vansprinkle • 10:35p, 5/29/24
vansprinkle said:
TH36 said:
So what's everyone's opinion on the full size SUV options out there? Will most likely be buying used…let's say in the 2020-Now range.

I would prefer a Tahoe/Suburban or Yukon/Yukon XL. I don't really want to mess with that Ford twin turbo V6 crap but if you can change my mind, I'm all ears.

Part of the allure to the GM stuff is I feel more confident it would tow my bay boat if I ever wanted to.

Probably going to take my wife to drive some this weekend so she can see what she likes as this will be her vehicle. I've got a 2016 Dodge 2500 Laramie that we currently take on all road trips with the kids. Her current car is a 2012 Hyundai Santa Fe and it absolutely sucks with 2 kids and a car full of *****

Pretty sure the Expedition will out tow the GM products, not just based on their published numbers, but the turbo 6 has tons of low end torque.

I have a 6,000lbs ski boat and my turbo 6 pulls it easily. A bay boat will be a piece of cake for GM, Ford, Jeep Wagoneers, or Toyota Sequoia.

I'll be in the same boat as you soon and my wife and I plan on test driving everything we can get our hands on. Each option seems to have its positives and we won't know which is absolute best for us until we try them all.


I like the Sequoia's but man you just can't find any used, very few at least. Seems like everyone keeps them till they're higher mileage then turns them in.

Actually just found a 2021 Tahoe with the baby Duramax in it for $56K with 44K miles. That doesn't seem like a bad price to start negotiating from.
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P.H. Dexippus
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In reply to 1agswitchin4lanes • 10:47p, 5/29/24
AG
1agswitchin4lanes said:
ChoppinDs40 said:
I'd say the 3.5 v6 turbo is more reliable than the lifter issue on the GMs. Unless… you go for the baby Duramax. Then… profit.


Just make sure you get a 11/22 build date or newer or set aside money/extended warranty for the Transmission.

113k on a Expy max. Just finished a 1300 mile road trip to Florida and back and didn't skip a beat.

Have had my eye on a pristine, <30k miles 2020 Navigator going for way below market. I have the clean Carfax and Oasis reports. But that 10R80 has me second guessing the move.
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1agswitchin4lanes
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In reply to P.H. Dexippus • 10:51p, 5/29/24
AG
P.H. Dexippus said:
1agswitchin4lanes said:
ChoppinDs40 said:
I'd say the 3.5 v6 turbo is more reliable than the lifter issue on the GMs. Unless… you go for the baby Duramax. Then… profit.


Just make sure you get a 11/22 build date or newer or set aside money/extended warranty for the Transmission.

113k on a Expy max. Just finished a 1300 mile road trip to Florida and back and didn't skip a beat.

Have had my eye on a pristine, <30k miles 2020 Navigator going for way below market. I have the clean Carfax and Oasis reports. But that 10R80 has me second guessing the move.


Is it certified?

I know it's an issue, I just don't lose sleep over it. I also have a customer with a fleet of 16 transit vans that are all 10R80 and pushing 200K with zero issues. And these vans are used and abused extensively.
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P.H. Dexippus
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In reply to 1agswitchin4lanes • 11:53p, 5/29/24
AG
Not certified but being sold by a ford dealership
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Sam Williams
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In reply to 1agswitchin4lanes • 1:39a, 5/30/24
AG
1agswitchin4lanes said:
ChoppinDs40 said:
I'd say the 3.5 v6 turbo is more reliable than the lifter issue on the GMs. Unless… you go for the baby Duramax. Then… profit.


Just make sure you get a 11/22 build date or newer or set aside money/extended warranty for the Transmission.

113k on a Expy max. Just finished a 1300 mile road trip to Florida and back and didn't skip a beat.


What's the issue with 11/22 build date and which model are you referring to? GM or Ford?
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drumboy
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In reply to Earth Rider • 2:41a, 5/30/24
AG
Earth Rider said:
Toyota Land Cruiser, it will tow anything, give you no trouble, and is perfect for a wife and two kids. It has plenty of space with the third row down, and if you have even more cr*p, you can get a pak mule swayback made for it.

Yep, or an LX570 with nicer seats and probably cheaper.
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HumbleAg04
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7:16a, 5/30/24
AG
All the Ford Expy owners remaining silent about their cam phaser issues.

Fix won't be warrantied for those years, you will get it, it will make you hate your car. Ford claiming it is only a "customer satisfaction" issue and not a mechanical one is BS.
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TH36
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7:32a, 5/30/24
We're pretty dead set on leather (for ease of wiping seats down from kids) but a dealer here in Austin has some brand new 2024 Tahoe LS models for $53K. Do GM cloth seats still suck? I feel like they used to have the best cushiest cloth seats and then went to ***** Have they changed any?
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ChoppinDs40
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In reply to TH36 • 7:38a, 5/30/24
AG
Just get leather skins put on. Probably better leather than factory anyways.
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P.H. Dexippus
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In reply to HumbleAg04 • 7:44a, 5/30/24
AG
HumbleAg04 said:
All the Ford Expy owners remaining silent about their cam phaser issues.

Fix won't be warrantied for those years, you will get it, it will make you hate your car. Ford claiming it is only a "customer satisfaction" issue and not a mechanical one is BS.

I believe corrected on builds after 02/20
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Kyle Field Shade Chaser
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8:05a, 5/30/24
AG
If you want best towing get a 3.0L duramax in the Yukon or Tahoe.

If you don't want a diesel, then the ford 3.5 turbo will be a better tower.

All them have issues at some point (5.3, 5.0, 3.5turbo, 6.2, 3.0duramax. Camphaser, lifters, teansmission, turbos m, suspension, coolant system, cats. Something on the GM and Ford product will eventually go wrong and need repair. Whether it's at 50K or 125K. You going to need to maintenance either of those brands for something at some point. Ford and GM do not make a unicorn.

None are prior generation Toyotas. If you want low maintenance, prior gen Toyota are about the closest thing to a unicorn.
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1agswitchin4lanes
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In reply to Sam Williams • 8:11a, 5/30/24
AG
Sam Williams said:
1agswitchin4lanes said:
ChoppinDs40 said:
I'd say the 3.5 v6 turbo is more reliable than the lifter issue on the GMs. Unless… you go for the baby Duramax. Then… profit.


Just make sure you get a 11/22 build date or newer or set aside money/extended warranty for the Transmission.

113k on a Expy max. Just finished a 1300 mile road trip to Florida and back and didn't skip a beat.


What's the issue with 11/22 build date and which model are you referring to? GM or Ford?


The ford. They revised the 10R after this date which solves the CDF drum issue.
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drummer0415
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In reply to TH36 • 10:08a, 5/30/24
AG
TH36 said:
I don't really want to mess with that Ford twin turbo V6 crap but if you can change my mind, I'm all ears.

Part of the allure to the GM stuff is I feel more confident it would tow my bay boat if I ever wanted to.


It blows my mind that the 3.5L ecoboost has been out for ~12 years now, and people still don't know that it makes more hp and tq than a naturallly aspirated GM V8.
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WildcatAg
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In reply to drumboy • 10:09a, 5/30/24
AG
drumboy said:
Earth Rider said:
Toyota Land Cruiser, it will tow anything, give you no trouble, and is perfect for a wife and two kids. It has plenty of space with the third row down, and if you have even more cr*p, you can get a pak mule swayback made for it.

Yep, or an LX570 with nicer seats and probably cheaper.
We have an LX570. It is my most favorite vehicle I have ever owned.

If I was looking for a tow vehicle, I would look elsewhere. The motor has power but the LX weighs nearly 6,000lbs unloaded. And it gets 13 mpg before you put a trailer on it.

If I wanted an SUV for towing it would be an Expedition Max or Suburban.
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Teslag
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In reply to TH36 • 10:59a, 5/30/24
AG
Go GM 3.0 Duramax all day every day. Best engine I ever had in a vehicle.
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'03ag
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In reply to WildcatAg • 12:28p, 5/30/24
WildcatAg said:
drumboy said:
Earth Rider said:
Toyota Land Cruiser, it will tow anything, give you no trouble, and is perfect for a wife and two kids. It has plenty of space with the third row down, and if you have even more cr*p, you can get a pak mule swayback made for it.

Yep, or an LX570 with nicer seats and probably cheaper.
We have an LX570. It is my most favorite vehicle I have ever owned.

If I was looking for a tow vehicle, I would look elsewhere. The motor has power but the LX weighs nearly 6,000lbs unloaded. And it gets 13 mpg before you put a trailer on it.

If I wanted an SUV for towing it would be an Expedition Max or Suburban.


All depends on his use. He has a 2500 truck to tow heavy if he needs to. The question would be how heavy is his boat and how often would he want tow it with the LX.

I've towed our camper(5500+ all loaded) to Colorado and back a few times in my LX570. I keep it around 70mph and get 9-11 mpg according to the trip computer. With oversized tires. I'd have more trust in that LX transmission over any Ford or GM half ton. Lots of 200 guys out there towing over their rating with 200k plus miles.
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TH36
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4:50p, 5/30/24
Well I stopped in real quick at a dealer that had some Tahoe LS models listed at $53K on Autotrader.

Look it over and tell them at that price they may have a deal.

Even with $15K down and them unable to look at the Santa Fe but let's say it brings $3-4K more the payments were still $960. That was at a 10% rate which I know my wife and I will do way better than that as we both have great credit but he told me the best he's seen is 5%?

Screw that kind of car payment. That's nuts.

They also said that price was a mistake on their part (which they have changed it now) and would only honor it for today. God I hate car salesman.
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JSKolache
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In reply to TH36 • 10:33p, 5/30/24
AG
TH36 said:
vansprinkle said:
TH36 said:
So what's everyone's opinion on the full size SUV options out there? Will most likely be buying used…let's say in the 2020-Now range.

I would prefer a Tahoe/Suburban or Yukon/Yukon XL. I don't really want to mess with that Ford twin turbo V6 crap but if you can change my mind, I'm all ears.

Part of the allure to the GM stuff is I feel more confident it would tow my bay boat if I ever wanted to.

Probably going to take my wife to drive some this weekend so she can see what she likes as this will be her vehicle. I've got a 2016 Dodge 2500 Laramie that we currently take on all road trips with the kids. Her current car is a 2012 Hyundai Santa Fe and it absolutely sucks with 2 kids and a car full of *****

Pretty sure the Expedition will out tow the GM products, not just based on their published numbers, but the turbo 6 has tons of low end torque.

I have a 6,000lbs ski boat and my turbo 6 pulls it easily. A bay boat will be a piece of cake for GM, Ford, Jeep Wagoneers, or Toyota Sequoia.

I'll be in the same boat as you soon and my wife and I plan on test driving everything we can get our hands on. Each option seems to have its positives and we won't know which is absolute best for us until we try them all.


I like the Sequoia's but man you just can't find any used, very few at least. Seems like everyone keeps them till they're higher mileage then turns them in.

Actually just found a 2021 Tahoe with the baby Duramax in it for $56K with 44K miles. That doesn't seem like a bad price to start negotiating from.
V8 Sequoias last forever. Get you one.
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beatlesphan
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11:20a, 6/1/24
AG
I have 3 kids and a 2021 Expedition and am happy. It is a very big and comfortable SUV. I am happy with the power. It needed a new catalytic converter which was replaced under warranty. Idk wtf a cam phaser is but as far as I know it has not been an issue for me
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EskimoJoe
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In reply to beatlesphan • 12:11p, 6/1/24
beatlesphan said:
I have 3 kids and a 2021 Expedition and am happy. It is a very big and comfortable SUV. I am happy with the power. It needed a new catalytic converter which was replaced under warranty. Idk wtf a cam phaser is but as far as I know it has not been an issue for me


yet
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Ag for Life
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In reply to EskimoJoe • 12:27p, 6/1/24
AG
EskimoJoe said:
beatlesphan said:
I have 3 kids and a 2021 Expedition and am happy. It is a very big and comfortable SUV. I am happy with the power. It needed a new catalytic converter which was replaced under warranty. Idk wtf a cam phaser is but as far as I know it has not been an issue for me


yet

So true. This is why we bought a 2023 instead of a used one. Ford says they've fixed the issue... We shall see
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TH36
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12:30p, 6/1/24
Sitting at a ford dealer right now shopping.

$60K for a 2wd 2024 XLT is the best they're doing.

I don't really need to tow my boat with anything other than my truck but I'm not hitting up a ramp without 4WD, do I ever need it in the truck? Maybe twice I have but there's always that chance.
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Bob_Ag
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12:58p, 6/1/24
AG
We have a 23 Expy Max XLT. Can't say much on longevity yet, but I love driving it. For a big SUV, it's really quick and maneuverable.
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vansprinkle
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In reply to TH36 • 1:09p, 6/1/24
AG
TH36 said:
Sitting at a ford dealer right now shopping.

$60K for a 2wd 2024 XLT is the best they're doing.

I don't really need to tow my boat with anything other than my truck but I'm not hitting up a ramp without 4WD, do I ever need it in the truck? Maybe twice I have but there's always that chance.


The ramp at our lake is very steep. On holiday weekends it'll be soaked with all the boats being pulled out in the afternoon. I've definitely put mine into 4wd a couple times to make sure I don't have issues pulling the ski boat out.
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Red Pear Luke
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3:43p, 6/1/24
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I've got a '17 Silverado as my daily driver. But she's in the shop with the dreaded AFM lifter issue. My wife's ford had a check engine also come on so I ended up renting a new style Tahoe (LT trim) from enterprise cause we need at least 1 car.

Long story short - I am slightly surprised at how cramped I feel in the new Tahoe compared to my Tahoe. Obviously it's not the old generation Silverado, but side to side feels a bit tighter and more cramped which is a bit of a let down.

I know the new expy has more cavernous feel to it with less cargo but it was a bit surprising to feel like more space in the expo compared to the Tahoe.
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mosdefn14
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5:01p, 6/1/24
AG
No love for the Armada here? Pretty sure you can get the big old school V8 4x4 SL under $50k.

Advertising at $52k.
https://www.grubbsnissan.com/new-Bedford-2024-Nissan-Armada-SL-JN8AY2BB9R9851380
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agracer
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In reply to TH36 • 8:26p, 6/1/24
AG
TH36 said:
vansprinkle said:
TH36 said:
So what's everyone's opinion on the full size SUV options out there? Will most likely be buying used…let's say in the 2020-Now range.

I would prefer a Tahoe/Suburban or Yukon/Yukon XL. I don't really want to mess with that Ford twin turbo V6 crap but if you can change my mind, I'm all ears.

Part of the allure to the GM stuff is I feel more confident it would tow my bay boat if I ever wanted to.

Probably going to take my wife to drive some this weekend so she can see what she likes as this will be her vehicle. I've got a 2016 Dodge 2500 Laramie that we currently take on all road trips with the kids. Her current car is a 2012 Hyundai Santa Fe and it absolutely sucks with 2 kids and a car full of *****

Pretty sure the Expedition will out tow the GM products, not just based on their published numbers, but the turbo 6 has tons of low end torque.

I have a 6,000lbs ski boat and my turbo 6 pulls it easily. A bay boat will be a piece of cake for GM, Ford, Jeep Wagoneers, or Toyota Sequoia.

I'll be in the same boat as you soon and my wife and I plan on test driving everything we can get our hands on. Each option seems to have its positives and we won't know which is absolute best for us until we try them all.


I like the Sequoia's but man you just can't find any used, very few at least. Seems like everyone keeps them till they're higher mileage then turns them in.

Actually just found a 2021 Tahoe with the baby Duramax in it for $56K with 44K miles. That doesn't seem like a bad price to start negotiating from.


Please tell me I'm not the only person who sees these numbers and just goes WTF happened to used car prices.

Yes, I know that happened, but I still just jaw drop when I see these numbers.
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Rule Number 32
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10:35a, 6/2/24
AG
We have a 2103 Lincoln navigator with 155k on it and it's basically on its last legs. Thought this was going to last a lot longer but we've basically been making a car payment every month in repairs of one kind of another and just getting tied of it.

We are looking essentially at the same cars and I just can't believe how expensive everything has gotten. We haven't looked at cars since 2017.

Used barely saves any money and that's pretty depressing.

We have 3 kids and a dog and drive either my parents or inlaws around quite a bit, so would love something with cargo space behind the 3rd row but that's basically becoming a pipe dream. We may drop down to something like a Hyundai palisade which doesn't have much cargo room behind the 3rd row but is 20k cheaper .
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kyledr04
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3:09p, 6/2/24
AG
Yep prices are insane. Makes me sick every time I think about replacing our suv or truck.
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Red Pear Luke
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4:53p, 6/2/24
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So the question to the group is - does it make more sense to lease a vehicle instead of buying?

I've always figured it made more sense to buy but given the continuous issues and questionable longevity, maybe leasing does make sense?
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