Curious when and how folks decide they are throwing money away on repairs vs a car payment.

I understand the general concept of if the repairs cost less over a certain amount of time than the payment then repairing is the way to go. The challenge and dilemma I have is that sinking tons into repairs does not necessarily mean there wont be thousands more spent next week, or next month, etc as the older vehicle continues to age and endure wear and tear.

Specific dilemma I have an almost ten year old Toyota Sienna Limited Premium with 195k miles on it just had a ton go wrong. Right now it has an immediate need for major cooling system repairs to the tune of about $3k just to get the vehicle running again. Additionally, it needs front struts (previously replaced 2 years ago) rear shocks (original), and a right front axle (leaking grease) and a few other more minor maintenance and wear and tear items. All combined though it would would be over 8k in repairs after tax.

If I knew we would be able to drive it another two years with no other major (say 1500+) repairs I would probably fix it. But at this point, because of age and mileage, I can't help but wonder and think that I could sink 8k in this month and have to do 3k more next week.

In the past I would have replaced - but with newer car pricing be so out of whack its a tough decision. This van was loaded when we bought it but a new one costs 25k more than we paid for this one at the time.

Time for a new (or used) car or keep riding this van to the moon?

Is the major cooling system repair a engine head gasket job?

will.mcg said:

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Is the major cooling system repair a engine head gasket job?

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Radiator, cooling fan motor and speed sensor, thermostat and serpentine drive belt

There is no way that I would put a ton into that van. Sell the van and take the repair money to put towards something else.

Here are three vans that have 90k-136k miles that are 12.8k to 15.8k. Two are even at the same Autonation dealer.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/752199680
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/752609953
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/751151688

For me, it depends on what your long term goals are for the vehicle.
How badly do you need / want some new feature.
What is your appetite for getting into another car payment?

If you can afford it and need something specific, I'd do it.

I've still got my 1999 Ford Expedition but... now that I'm a grandparent, I bought a more modern car so that I have the modern car seat anchors when I need to watch grandkids. That was a feature that I needed.

What's your location? I've got a friend in Bryan that does work on the side. I can ask him what labor would run.

I wouldn't spend that kind of money on any car that had 200k.

I am well known to drive it into the ground. But there comes a time where you are simply throwing good money after bad.

Yeah, circumstances vary, but in general, $2-3k+ on a vehicle near or over 200k or more, I'm probably moving on unless it is serving a specific purpose and am willing to risk another repair

Thanks for the replies folks.

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For me, it depends on what your long term goals are for the vehicle.
How badly do you need / want some new feature.
What is your appetite for getting into another car payment?

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We were hoping to keep it for 2-3 more years. It is my wife's daily driver. There is zero desire for any of the new features in the latest cell phones on wheels. We haven't had a car payment in almost 5 years and really didn't want one now - but also didn't want to spend such a huge sum on the current car.

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What's your location?

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Metroplex - but the car can't drive more than 2-3 miles before overheating so I have to pretty much tow it if I try to switch shops etc. If I find the reasonably priced toyota expert somewhere near my house it might be totally worth it tow it to a couple if I was committed to keeping it.

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8k for the work you described sounds stupid high

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I totally agree. Some of the work I suspect is due to the pricing model. Like the thermostat is an arm and a leg but it should be no more than the part basically since you just swap in the new one as you do the radiator.

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I'd take it over to Todd at Todd's Auto Car (TAC) [https://www.facebook.com/ToddsAutoCare/] and see what he thinks, if you're in the area. He's good people and knows more about Toyota than just about anyone you'll meet.

Personally, I suspect that repairing is almost always better financially, but... I'm probably wrong. I also provide my own labor, which dramatically changes the math.

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Thanks for the referral, too far away for me but that sounds like the type of place I need to find near me. I had a great shop I loved but the owners recently sold out to a national chain and it went downhill from there.

Yeah if I swap some of this out myself that would make life way cheaper.

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Yeah, circumstances vary, but in general, $2-3k+ on a vehicle near or over 200k or more, I'm probably moving on unless it is serving a specific purpose and am willing to risk another repair

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It's the risk of something even worse happening next week or month etc that has me leaning towards getting rid of it. Of course then there is the challenge of deciding how much to repair prior to selling it.

If you can afford to not have headaches, I prefer no headaches.

Looking at that large of a repair bill on a car you were only planning to keep for 2-3 more years anyway, and it's your wife's daily driver.

It sounds like it's time to get a new car. Don't forget to Rule #1 it back here after you get it.

DannyDuberstein said:

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When it's my wife's daily driver, my decision is going to be more conservative. It's more than the financials, it's her being stranded somewhere dangerous - possibly with my kids, that comes into play too vs just a math decision. I would not put another dime into it and instead just trade it in or sell it to some quick and dirty givemethevin/carmax/carvana type place

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Repair the van. Give wife a gun.

It would be cheaper to find a good independent mechanic and tow your vehicle to him. I'd venture labor would be about the same as parts cost. If the vehicle isn't trashed and runs good, I'd fix it. My last Toyota was still going strong at 490K. I did replace the engine at 325K.

If you care only that the vehicle functions, it's virtually always better to repair versus replace. Especially if your replacement defaults to a new vehicle where you will basically light 40% of the purchase price on fire as you drive it off the lot for most vehicles, considering how rapidly they depreciate in the time the warranty is still in effect.
But, if you value your time and not having to worry much and have the money to burn then it's not as big of a deal, as at least the finance rates tend to be unusually low on new vehicles.

Wow, 40% when you drive it off the lot. I agree that there is some depreciation, but it is no where near 40%

For the worst depreciation, buy from this list and it will be 40-47% in three years. This tells me if you want an Edge, CX-90, or Expedition to buy a three year old one.

https://carbuzz.com/cars-with-the-worst-depreciation-usa/

AAA is $120 and comes with multiple tows for that price. You'd probably get that back towing it around for other estimates.

I'd consider also replacing the water pump and expansion tank if you decide to go that far into the cooling system. They'll end up being the weak links that blow next.

I'm really talking the time until the warranty runs out as most people keep a vehicle that long at least. Let's say 3-5 years, 36K-60K miles. A lot of vehicles have lost 1/3 or more their original value in the market by that point although more recently the lower numbers of used vehicles available has buoyed their values up by quite a bit.

There is a point where labor + parts over a year might exceed car payments over a year on a replacement.

MouthBQ98 said:

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There is a point where labor + parts over a year might exceed car payments over a year on a replacement.

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According to Google, the average payment for a new car is $745/month. That is insane! The average for used is over $500. Still crazy.

The above numbers are also likely 48-60+ month notes. So $6,000 - $8,940 per year. Say you ate a big $6K repair this year. The likelihood of having another big repair like that come up next year (or the following year) is pretty low. And the chances of you needing annual repairs anywhere close to that for 4-5 years is practically zero.

Based only on finances, it seems to make more sense to repair as long as you can (rather than taking on a car payment).

However, it's usually non-financial factors that determine the decision. Most of us don't want our wives breaking down and getting stranded. I don't mind driving a POS b/c if I break down I can take care of myself.

There's also the matter of what the repair needs are. Our old van had a weird electrical issue that we just couldn't solve. It would randomly shut down while driving. Not great when my wife is on the highway with our kids.

Yep, reliability risk definitely comes into the calculation. I keep an AAA membership and we have 4 vehicles for 2 drivers so that's one solution, but the other is just staying in newer and hopefully reliable vehicles.

Though, after handing around this board a while, I notice this alarming trend of at least some people's newer, under warranty vehicles going into the shop more than any of my high mileage older vehicles have, in some cases at least. I guess it depends on what you buy and how you drive.

Suburbia is MURDER on engines. Lots of short drives with cold oil and parts and lots more start stop and acceleration cycles.

That, and property tax in states (like SC) that have those. I pay around $15/year for my '00s and '70 fleet while friends with new cars that haven't depreciated pay up to a few hundred.

I appreciate everyone's input.

Right now I am leaning towards fixing the cooling system so the van runs and we can take it places to get sales quotes as I think i would get a big chunk of the repair cost back in a higher sales price and then just selling it. The interior of the vehicle is in great shape.

Next big challenge is what to replace it with.