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Low Testosterone

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12thAngryMan
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4:55p, 9/20/21
AG
Are there any concerns with long-term side effects given the repeated usage? Other than dependence on continuing treatments and the shrinking balls mentioned above...

I don't have any personal issues at the moment, but very curious what men are collectively doing to themselves given the supposed prevalence of the issue and the ubiquitous, infomercial-style marketing of "low T clinics". Also, I just get a manipulative/greedy vibe from people like Steve Hotze who pushes the stuff on every radio station in Houston. Kinda seems like we are messing with the natural aging process consequences-be-damned, but maybe I'll feel different when I'm 60.
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Aggie_Boomin 21
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In reply to 12thAngryMan • 7:19p, 9/20/21
AG
Hair loss

HDL tanking
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In reply to lb3 • 11:07a, 10/5/21
lb3 said:
Sea Speed said:
OasisMan said:
lb3 said:
...you'll probably be committing to maintenance doses for life...
thats the prob with T-replacement (TRT)
i see no problem with feeling like a young man until the day you die

Quote:
One of the most notable [side effects] is a decrease in the size and mass of the person's testicles.

https://www.drelist.com/blog/testicle-size-testosterone-injection/?amp


This is why they also now prescribe HCG, which can maintain full fertility even for people using bodybuilder levels of steroids. It's a miracle drug in this regard.
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In reply to Swarely • 11:14a, 10/5/21
Swarely said:
Just left my doctor and he's recommending That I either go one Clomid or do the injections.

Clomid takes 2-3 months to see if it works and is just a pill I take 3 times a week.

Injections start working in 3-4 weeks, but he wants me to come in every week for them. And that includes a $20 copay every time.

Sounds like both are for life.

Anyone want to offer some advice?


Low testosterone is a lifetime condition, it won't end and you're never going to build it back up naturally.

You should see if he will prescribe the vials for you to do the injections yourself at home. This is what I do and I had a similar test level to yours when I started. Injecting into your quad is not a big deal at all, just make sure you use the alcohol pads and the area is clean.

Clomid is a SERM and while it will somewhat build up natural production it will also have estrogenic if side effects such as mood swings, etc. I have taken both and the side effects from clomid are more significant than test injections provided you also take HCG and aromasin/anastrozole to control the testosterone conversion to estrogen.

Far too many men are scared of testosterone injections and needles. I am in my late 30s and I feel like I am 20 again energy level and sex drive wise.
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11:16a, 10/5/21
If anyone wants anymore information, feel free to PM me and I can help. Also, I can give you my doctor if you want him, he's really good.
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Sea Speed
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11:25a, 10/5/21
AG
And make sure your insco won't cover it before you go straight to a low t clinic
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JeremiahJohnson
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11:40a, 10/5/21
AG
I am also 36 with low T. I was put on Chlomid, insead of TRT. Because my wife and i are trying to have kids and TRT can lead to fertility issues.

I am also running Chicago
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In reply to JeremiahJohnson • 1:41p, 10/5/21
JeremiahJohnson said:
I am also 36 with low T. I was put on Chlomid, insead of TRT. Because my wife and i are trying to have kids and TRT can lead to fertility issues.

I am also running Chicago


This is true only if you are not using HCG. If you use HCG in addition to trt then you won't have any fertility issues at all. This has been proven by studies. Any doctor worth a damn will prescribe you HCG in addition to trt and anastrozole. If they aren't then I would recommend a new doctor.
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In reply to Sea Speed • 1:43p, 10/5/21
Sea Speed said:
And make sure your insco won't cover it before you go straight to a low t clinic


If you test under 400 then you should be good to go at most doctors. Of course many compound pharmacies are not covered or you have to file reimbursement claims with, which is generally annoying and often not worth it.

If you can afford it, then the cost isn't too bad. At full price I pay around $150 for a 2 month supply of both testosterone and HCG. I get everything from empower pharmacy and they supply all syringes and everything needed.
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JeremiahJohnson
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In reply to BAP Enthusiast • 1:56p, 10/5/21
AG
Where are you located and who is your doc? You can pm or post if you want.
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JW
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2:44p, 10/5/21
AG
Will clinics prescribe even if in normal range?
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In reply to JW • 3:55p, 10/5/21
JW said:
Will clinics prescribe even if in normal range?


Possibly. If you have all of the symptoms of low testosterone such as lethargy, weight gain, near permanent delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) from working out, low sex drive, etc.

Basically some men had naturally higher T around 1000 normally and now dropped to 400-500 and are experiencing the same symptoms as others who went below 400. Most doctors worth a damn usually give some leeway. 400 is the cutoff for insurance to cover it though.
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Swarely
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In reply to JeremiahJohnson • 4:43p, 10/5/21
Which corral are you in?



Just as an update- I am going to the doctors every week and getting the shot while I work things out with Defy to do it at home. Getting my third shot this week. Haven't noticed any big changes except 2-3 days after I am horny as all get out.
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Sea Speed
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In reply to Swarely • 4:48p, 10/5/21
AG
Attaboy
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JeremiahJohnson
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In reply to Swarely • 4:57p, 10/5/21
AG
I think I am in corral D. How about you? Hasn't been my best training block, but plan to give it hell. Covid kicked my ass
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Swarely
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In reply to JeremiahJohnson • 5:00p, 10/5/21
K. I'm slow anyways, but particularly right now. And My left Achilles has been acting up.

Looks to be damn warm for a marathon. Did the austin one year when it was that warm. Was not fun!
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HaveGoodGetGive
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In reply to Swarely • 9:33a, 10/7/21
AG
Swarely said:
Which corral are you in?



Just as an update- I am going to the doctors every week and getting the shot while I work things out with Defy to do it at home. Getting my third shot this week. Haven't noticed any big changes except 2-3 days after I am horny as all get out.
you should start to have more energy soon
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SARATOGA
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4:17p, 10/7/21
You can't out-exercise or "active" a bad diet. Nutrition is 80-90% of health.

I'd start with an examination of your nutrition. I'm obviously not a doctor, but I have done carnivore/keto for almost 2 years. In better shape at 40 than I was at 30 and bloodwork is in good shape.

Happy to send along other information, peer-reviewed research etc. if you'd like more information.

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Sea Speed
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5:07p, 10/7/21
AG
You can't eat yourself in to higher testosterone either.
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MosesHallEnforcer
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6:55p, 10/7/21
AG
Yes you can.
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Sea Speed
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In reply to MosesHallEnforcer • 7:01p, 10/7/21
AG
MosesHallEnforcer said:
Yes you can.
ok i should not have spoken in absolutes. I do not believe you can eat your way to increased levels of testosterone comparable to supplemental testosterone.
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Aggie_Boomin 21
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In reply to Sea Speed • 7:08p, 10/7/21
AG
Well duh… you could inject yourself with 1000 ng/dL every two weeks and not get near that with any other method, don't think they were attacking the efficacy of supplementing.
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Sea Speed
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In reply to Aggie_Boomin 21 • 7:31p, 10/7/21
AG
Ok well this thread seems to be men that need supplementation not tips on eating keto. That is the point of my objection. Guys on here talking about having T levels well below the normal threshold.
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In reply to MosesHallEnforcer • 11:36a, 10/11/21
MosesHallEnforcer said:
Yes you can.


No you can't. Testosterone issues among men are now mostly cause by external factors like pesticides/herbicides in water systems, birth control in water, plastic food storage and then microwaving said plastics which release xenoestrogens into the food, soy products in everything, processed seed oils being in everything, SSRIs, and so much more.

Eating has almost nothing to do with why men across the board have 40% less testosterone than the men of their fathers' generation. Obesity along does not come anywhere close to explaining it because this affects men of all fitness levels.
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In reply to Sea Speed • 11:40a, 10/11/21
Sea Speed said:
Ok well this thread seems to be men that need supplementation not tips on eating keto. That is the point of my objection. Guys on here talking about having T levels well below the normal threshold.


The amount of bad information about the human endocrine system that has been passed around as fact is mind-boggling. The types who think you can eat your way to high test are the same as those who think test booster supplements works.

The modern world is terrible for male testosterone levels.
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MosesHallEnforcer
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In reply to BAP Enthusiast • 12:02p, 10/11/21
AG
I agree with you on the xenoestrogens, etc. But to say that eating has nothing to do with hormone production in the human body is just flat out wrong.

Before getting on testosterone therapy for the rest of your life, it is my view that people should try some other natural strategies first.

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In reply to MosesHallEnforcer • 1:05p, 10/11/21
MosesHallEnforcer said:
I agree with you on the xenoestrogens, etc. But to say that eating has nothing to do with hormone production in the human body is just flat out wrong.

Before getting on testosterone therapy for the rest of your life, it is my view that people should try some other natural strategies first.



I ate well and lifted constantly. My test was below 300 when I finally got tested. Eating has little, if any, to do with it beyond lowering it from the pesticides/herbicides, processed seed oils, soy in everything, etc. You basically have to have a fanatical diet to avoid these things in food and be diligent about washing everything.

The sad reality is that young men are ****ed in the modern world.

The same reason girls are developing breasts and beginning puberty earlier than the past is also reducing testosterone in boys.
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MosesHallEnforcer
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1:35p, 10/11/21
AG
Look up Tim Ferriss'' testosterone protocol. He took his testosterone from 244.6 to 653.3 just by adjusting his diet alone.
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In reply to MosesHallEnforcer • 6:31p, 10/11/21
MosesHallEnforcer said:
Look up Tim Ferriss'' testosterone protocol. He took his testosterone from 244.6 to 653.3 just by adjusting his diet alone.




In just 20 years this has happened, this is not a coincidence.
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Sea Speed
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6:42p, 10/11/21
AG
was doing doing 350 lb DLs for reps today. thank god i started eating keto.
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Aggie_Boomin 21
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In reply to BAP Enthusiast • 7:50p, 10/11/21
AG
You're correct on levels consistently dropping in men over the last few decades, but that is a straight **** source. Read their reasoning for the claim:

"As we crossed into the new millennium, the average American male (controlled for age and other relevant factors) had a total testosterone reading of 605 nanograms per deciliter. A scant 20 years later, and the average level has plummeted by 27 percent to just 450 nanograms per deciliter. That means the average 22-year-old man today has an average testosterone level roughly equal to that of a 67-year-old man in 2000."

NOT how numbers work, nor how test decreases with age.

Then the articles linked are just as bad!

First one is from 2007

Second one says:
"However, most of these explanations for testosterone deficiency may be attributed to age. This time-dependent decline in testosterone has not been investigated in adolescent and young adult males,"

Chill with the bro science dude.
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Max Power
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6:44a, 10/12/21
AG
I've been on TRT for several years now and I do have a note regarding side effects. When we discovered I was low my wife and I were trying to have a baby. I was put on HCG during that period so it wouldn't impact fertility. My numbers increased and didn't notice any negative side effects that I recall.

After we had the kid I was moved to full on TRT. In my mid-30s I was under 200, I'm currently at normal levels. After I had been on the injections for a while my mood had gone down significantly. I would get super angry at very minor things, also depressed. I went and talked to the doctor and figured out that I had depression as well. It didn't give me depression, but it amplified what was below the surface. I'm now on TRT and anti-depressants and I feel like I'm supposed to. My depression isn't gone, but it's manageable.

I just wanted to make sure people know that you need to pay attention to your mental health during this period of time.
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Quinn
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In reply to BAP Enthusiast • 10:14a, 10/12/21
AG
BAP Enthusiast said:
MosesHallEnforcer said:
Yes you can.


No you can't. Testosterone issues among men are now mostly cause by external factors like pesticides/herbicides in water systems, birth control in water, plastic food storage and then microwaving said plastics which release xenoestrogens into the food, soy products in everything, processed seed oils being in everything, SSRIs, and so much more.

Eating has almost nothing to do with why men across the board have 40% less testosterone than the men of their fathers' generation. Obesity along does not come anywhere close to explaining it because this affects men of all fitness levels.
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HaveGoodGetGive
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In reply to Max Power • 4:04p, 10/12/21
AG
Max Power said:
I've been on TRT for several years now and I do have a note regarding side effects. When we discovered I was low my wife and I were trying to have a baby. I was put on HCG during that period so it wouldn't impact fertility. My numbers increased and didn't notice any negative side effects that I recall.

After we had the kid I was moved to full on TRT. In my mid-30s I was under 200, I'm currently at normal levels. After I had been on the injections for a while my mood had gone down significantly. I would get super angry at very minor things, also depressed. I went and talked to the doctor and figured out that I had depression as well. It didn't give me depression, but it amplified what was below the surface. I'm now on TRT and anti-depressants and I feel like I'm supposed to. My depression isn't gone, but it's manageable.

I just wanted to make sure people know that you need to pay attention to your mental health during this period of time.
Gald you got that figured out. Did you happen to get your estradiol levels checked? I have heard if they get too high which can happen on TRT that you get very moody.
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BAP Enthusiast
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In reply to HaveGoodGetGive • 11:32a, 10/21/21
HaveGoodGetGive said:
Max Power said:
I've been on TRT for several years now and I do have a note regarding side effects. When we discovered I was low my wife and I were trying to have a baby. I was put on HCG during that period so it wouldn't impact fertility. My numbers increased and didn't notice any negative side effects that I recall.

After we had the kid I was moved to full on TRT. In my mid-30s I was under 200, I'm currently at normal levels. After I had been on the injections for a while my mood had gone down significantly. I would get super angry at very minor things, also depressed. I went and talked to the doctor and figured out that I had depression as well. It didn't give me depression, but it amplified what was below the surface. I'm now on TRT and anti-depressants and I feel like I'm supposed to. My depression isn't gone, but it's manageable.

I just wanted to make sure people know that you need to pay attention to your mental health during this period of time.
Gald you got that figured out. Did you happen to get your estradiol levels checked? I have heard if they get too high which can happen on TRT that you get very moody.


That's correct. That's why doctors also prescribe anastrozole to control estradiol.
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