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Low Carb Diets (Atkins, Keto)

15,439 Views | 133 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by True Anomaly
Tex117
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AG
TXTransplant said:

Tex117 said:

ptothemo said:

This is an unstoppable force meets an immovable object in thread form. All the words and not a thing is going to change because of them.
Nah. We were never going to change either of our minds, but if someone reads it, at least they can see the two schools of thought and make their own decision.


And debunk the absolutely garbage that "fitness influencers" have been telling people in order to gain a following.

Anyone who tells you that it is possible to "burn fat" and "build muscle" at the same time while not tracking how many calories you are eating in order to maintain a calorie deficit is absolutely full of $h!t.

First of all, from a metabolic perspective, it is extremely difficult to burn fat and build muscle at the same time. Why? Because building muscle requires extra calories and burning fat requires a calorie deficit. The two things are inherently at odds from an energy perspective.

Not eating carbs does not make one "burn fat and build muscle", and to state or imply that it does is straight up wrong.

To do it successfully, you cannot simply guess at your BMR/daily caloric intake needs or eat whatever you want (but avoid carbs) because you will most likely not be eating in a caloric deficit. The best you can do is lose fat and lose (or maintain muscle), or build muscle and gain fat.

If you don't believe this guy, there are plenty of other reputable sources that agree with him.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CwlKHqPJu0N/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Listen to TxTransplant, she is more patient than I am in explaining all of this and has done way more of the lifting in this thread.

Just...to anyone reading this thread, follow this advice first. If that doesn't work, then start looking at other options.
Tex117
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SARATOGA said:

Ok, for the sake of returning this thread to useful for the people lets talk about BMR (Basic Metabolic Rate). I have said that "You are your own test case", but still, given the various factors effecting metabolism and health (sleep, stress, hydration, activity level, and nutrition). What is the best way for an average Joe to determine their BMR ? You keep coming back to maintenance, below maintenance, and above maintenance......so for the average person are they supposed to track calories consumed and macros for a month, and not any weight changes.......followed by cutting 500 ? 1000 ? Calories and then note weight changes......and then add 500 to 1000 calories and note weight changes ?

I think you can get some extensive tests done, figuring body fat in a pool float test, and doing an exercise profile where they have you hooked up to a machine that measures exhaling to figure metabolism, but for the average person just Googling "how to figure BMR" isn't going to be very productive given all the variabilities.

So it seems that getting the BMR figured would be a great first step before figuring out what to eat and how you want to perform/exercise .....
Yes. And its not nearly as difficult as you are implying.

Get online and start with a BMR Calculator. Try that for a week or two and see if you gain or lose weight. Adjust from there. Its really not all that hard. Getting in the ballpark of the surpluses or deficits is all an average person needs.

Once you get a handle on this (and calorie counting), it becomes second nature. You know what you eat everyday (like a normal day), and you don't even have to think about it. Weekends, don't go crazy and boom. Ya got it. You don't have to be perfect all the time. Hell, for most people...being good during the week, and not crazy on the weekend is enough to see significant progress.

SARATOGA
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Except if weight is your only variable you don't know if you're gaining or losing muscle or fat or both in which percentages ?

You could be losing muscle, and nobody wants that !

I don't care what the scale says, I care what my body fat percentage is. That is the key ratio. Measuring weight only is quite a hollow piece of information. And I think most people would agree. A target weight is not really what people want, there is massive variability. And while a pound of muscle weighs the exact same as a pound of fat (its true!) , the muscle looks entirely different.

Yeah, I've tried the eat good during the week, and don't go crazy on the weekends plan. For most that is a recipe for failure. Humans weren't built that way, things can quickly spiral out of control on the weekends (cause carbs just make you hungry for more). And even when it doesn't spiral, self control is still an exhaustible resource. And from personal experience the weekday/weekend cycling plan I was in a worse state of health than being consistent with protein focus. Enjoying pleasure foods on the weekends you'll carry more fat, its as simple as that. Maybe worth the tradeoff to some, but not to others.
Tex117
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SARATOGA said:

Except if weight is your only variable you don't know if you're gaining or losing muscle or fat or both in which percentages ?

You could be losing muscle, and nobody wants that !

I don't care what the scale says, I care what my body fat percentage is. That is the key ratio. Measuring weight only is quite a hollow piece of information. And I think most people would agree. A target weight is not really what people want, there is massive variability. And while a pound of muscle weighs the exact same as a pound of fat (its true!) , the muscle looks entirely different.

Yeah, I've tried the eat good during the week, and don't go crazy on the weekends plan. For most that is a recipe for failure. Humans weren't built that way, things can quickly spiral out of control on the weekends (cause carbs just make you hungry for more). And even when it doesn't spiral, self control is still an exhaustible resource. And from personal experience the weekday/weekend cycling plan I was in a worse state of health than being consistent with protein focus. Enjoying pleasure foods on the weekends you'll carry more fat, its as simple as that. Maybe worth the tradeoff to some, but not to others.

Not eating carbs doesn't magically or substantially change this equation. If you are under maintenance, you will lose weight. You can resistance train (and yes, eat the proper amount of protein) to help "direct" the nutrients to try and hold on to the muscle and burn the fat, but even then… you are going to lose both fat and muscle. There is absolutely no way around this (unless you are juiced).

As for the weekend stuff… sounds like you did go crazy. I'm starting to get the picture here (one you have already admitted to). You simply don't have the discipline to monitor your eating so you have had to resort to a more extreme diet because it's harder to over eat your calories and you have sought out research (no matter how flimsy) to support this.

If it's working for you, great. Hope this continues into the future.

As for others, try actually changing your lifestyle and building your knowledge of calories to make sustainable healthy changes longterm. It's will serve you better learning this stuff rather than eating a steak a night.
aggiegolfer03
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but what if I work steak into my macros every night?
True Anomaly
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aggiegolfer03 said:

but what if I work steak into my macros every night?
Works great!
True Anomaly
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SARATOGA said:



I don't care what the scale says, I care what my body fat percentage is. That is the key ratio. Measuring weight only is quite a hollow piece of information. And I think most people would agree. A target weight is not really what people want, there is massive variability. And while a pound of muscle weighs the exact same as a pound of fat (it's true!) , the muscle looks entirely different.

Completely 100% agree. Body fat% is what should be focused on
Tex117
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True Anomaly said:

SARATOGA said:



I don't care what the scale says, I care what my body fat percentage is. That is the key ratio. Measuring weight only is quite a hollow piece of information. And I think most people would agree. A target weight is not really what people want, there is massive variability. And while a pound of muscle weighs the exact same as a pound of fat (it's true!) , the muscle looks entirely different.

Completely 100% agree. Body fat% is what should be focused on

And eating more protein but under maintenance won't magically grow (or even keep) your muscle mass.

If you eat plenty of protein and eat under maintenance, you will lose both muscle and fat and with resistance training, hopefully more fat.

If you eat plenty of protein and eat over maintenance, and resistance train, You will gain both fat and muscle. Hopefully most will be muscle.

This is how this works.
Not a Bot
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I'm doing low-carb with intermittent fasting. I've lost over 40 pounds in three months. Body fat percentage went from an embarrassing 34% to 24%. That's really what I care about the most. I have lost a slight amount of muscle mass.

When I get hungry during the fast times I drink a small cup of tea, coffee or a cup of water. Once you get used to it you don't really feel hungry at all.

Diet plan is mostly from the crazy Scientologist wacko Dr. Berg on YouTube. As much as I don't really like the guy, I feel way more energetic and healthy following that plan. He's big into healthy vegetables, fish, and getting your fat sources from healthy options like avocado and olives.
TXTransplant
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You can get a very good estimate of your BMR from an InBody machine. My fitness studio has one, and lots of drs offices have them. It's not a difficult or expensive thing to do, and it doesn't require extensive testing. You stand on a scale and hold some electrodes. You get a printout with your BMR as well as an estimation of your % body fat and the amount of muscle mass you have. It's not perfect, but it perfectly fine for most people.

Knowing your BMR is half the battle, IMO, because I would gather that most people have absolutely no clue what their caloric intake needs are and end up swinging too far one way or the other (I know just as many women who chronically UNDER eat as who over eat, and both are bad if you really want to change your body composition). The 2000 calories per day guideline (at least for women) is total garbage, unless you want to be overweight.

If you want to lose weight, the advice from actual experts in this area is to eat 10-20% less than your BMR. You get a little bit of wiggle room if you exercise, but most professionals in this area do not take calories burned from exercise as part of your BMR during weight loss. Why? Because most people grossly overestimate how much they exercise and how many calories they burn doing it. Those fitness trackers we all wear are great for tracking trends and habits, but they are not accurate when it comes to calories burned.

Step 2 is to change your eating habits, based on your BMR. I say change because you should start prioritizing protein. There are a few different rule of thumb recommendations on this: 1g for every lb you WANT to weigh (so if you are 150 lbs and want to weigh 130, eat 130 g of protein), at least 100 g per day (for women), or 40-50% if your total caloric intake (closer to 50%, if you are really serious).

The focus on protein is for two reasons: it keeps you from over-eating the other macros and it can help prevent muscle LOSS during the calorie deficit stage. You won't likely gain any muscle in a calorie deficit (there are a few exceptions, if you read that link I posted), but you can keep from losing significant muscle.

For most people, especially women, eating this much protein is a HUGE change in their habits. The remaining macros are split between fat and carbs, but because you're in a calorie deficit, it's going to inherently be low fat and low(ish) carb. Basically once you hit your protein goal, there just aren't a whole lot of calories left for other stuff.

Do this for 6-8 weeks, and you will see progress. The plan I've used steps the deficit down in two week increments. You also get a "double carb day" on day per week (meaning you eat 2x the number of carbs you eat the rest of the week but keep fat and protein the same). Depending on how much weight you want to lose, you may have to do a couple of different cycles.

Once you hit your goal weight, your BMR will have likely changed. If you weigh significantly less, your BMR will be lower. However if you are active, your maintenance window has a little more wiggle room - meaning you can eat more on some days and less on others. In maintenance, you shouldn't have to track fat or carbs at all as long as you are hitting your protein goal and not exceeding your total calories.

Like was said in a previous post you do this long enough and you "learn" what to eat. It is most definitely a lifestyle change. If you do want to gain significant muscle, this plan is not sufficient. You need to be in a calorie surplus to build muscle (in which you gain fat), and then you will need to be on a calorie deficit to lose the fat. Most people seriously committed to this lifestyle understand that building significant muscle takes YEARS and a very consistent presence in the gym. Like being there 5 days a week lifting HEAVY.

I light weights 3 days a week for a total of about 3 hrs (the other days I do cardio). My lower body is very strong (I can hip thrust 305 lbs). But I am by no means "shredded". I do look muscular, but 3 days a week isn't enough to get me quite where I would prefer to be from an aesthetic standpoint.

I will add a couple of things I have noticed - tracking calories is KEY. If I do not pay attention to what I eat (and how much I eat) I WILL overeat. Throw in something like alcohol, and your ability to hit your calorie goals goes out the window. Personally, even after several years, I still measure a lot of my food. It's really not a big deal or as onerous as people think it is. I have a scale in my kitchen and just weigh a portion into whatever container or plate I'm eating from.

Most Americans also don't realize how small the portion size on the nutrition label really is. Until you make this connection in your brain, you will also continue to overeat. A typical serving size of just about any processed/packaged food is 30 g, and that is NOT a lot of good. This will hit home when you decide you want some nuts or peanut butter and go to weigh out the portion.

Also, the maintenance window is probably not as wide as we would all hope. I've been doing this long enough to know that if I eat at the high end of my maintenance window all the time, eventually I will gain weight.

If you have significant weight to lose and keto works for you (because it keeps you from over eating foods that you have a real problem with consuming in moderation), then by all means go keto. The goal is to lose weight, so do whatever it takes.

Where a lack of calorie and protein tracking will become an issue is when you start to approach or hit your goal weight. If you want to gain muscle (and in particular for women, not be "skinny fat"), you have to put in more effort by tracking your protein intake, limiting total calories, and lifting heavy. Keto alone will only get you so far.

I suspect men have more "success" on keto because inherently most men have a higher BMR and higher amount of muscle mass than most women. So they are starting with a bit of an advantage. But they will eventually hit the same plateau as well. Also, as you lose fat, muscles become more visible, mistakenly leading people to believe they "gained" muscle. No, the muscle you already had just isn't covered by fat.

If you lose weight and are cool with that plateau, that's a perfectly great place to be, too. But you still have to be mindful of BMR because, as we age, even keeping all things the same, we lose muscle mass. So, you have to be aware of your BMR and how many calories you are consuming in relation to it if you want to keep the weight off for the LONG TERM (ie, the rest of your life).

I will also say that the information above applies to ALL diets - macro counting, keto, carnivore, vegetarian, and even pharmaceutically-driven weight loss (semaglutide). Don't get me started on how unethical it is to put unhealthy/overweight people on a drug that makes them eat significantly less and not give them information on how to optimize the calories they are eating. Semaglutide alone is a starvation diet. I've watched a good friend swing from one eating disorder (binge eating) to another (grossly under eating). Her body is literally eating itself because she is not consuming enough calories. But, hey, at least she's not obese.

I realize this is a really long post, but I hope it's enough to finally debunk this myth that somehow keto and carnivore diets are "healthier" or "better" for "burning fat and "building muscle". Because they are not. At best, that's misleading, and worst, it's flat out not true.
rynning
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Not a Bot said:

I'm doing low-carb with intermittent fasting. I've lost over 40 pounds in three months. Body fat percentage went from an embarrassing 34% to 24%. That's really what I care about the most. I have lost a slight amount of muscle mass.

When I get hungry during the fast times I drink a small cup of tea, coffee or a cup of water. Once you get used to it you don't really feel hungry at all.

Diet plan is mostly from the crazy Scientologist wacko Dr. Berg on YouTube. As much as I don't really like the guy, I feel way more energetic and healthy following that plan. He's big into healthy vegetables, fish, and getting your fat sources from healthy options like avocado and olives.
This is pretty much what I've done since March. Not full time since I didn't want to lose that much weight, but I went down from 184 to 163 by eating just low carb dinners. When I get really hungry in the afternoons, just a handful of mixed nuts does the trick. I'm sure I've lost a little muscle, but I plan to focus on that once I get to 160 and 16% body fat per my Withings "smart" scale.
jenn96
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Chiming in because despite the immovable object and irresistible force debate this is a great thread and really informative. One thing I am hyper-aware of is how critical aging and hormones are. The amount of effort and food awareness that kept me lean at 25 and able to easily drop weight at 35 simply do not work at all at 50, whether it's keto, low fat, cardio, IF, etc. It's much harder and requires far fewer calories. It's different for everyone and really different for men vs women (I'm a woman) but for me it's insane how tough losing weight in perimenopause has been.

I agree too that tracking what you eat is critical, but ironically tracking everything that goes in my mouth has been a contributor to quitting every attempt at losing weight I've tried for years after a few months (and well before goal) because it's too much work. For some people it's not, and I respect that. For me and my life and my schedule, it was an extra layer of work that ultimately kicked me off the wagon.

After lots of failures I finally decided to just trust my gut and eat clean protein first, then non-starchy high fiber vegetables, minimal dairy (but I do have a little every day) a few raw almonds and only berries for fruit occasionally, and not too much of any of it. I don't seek fat but don't avoid it and I know I'm getting plenty in the oils I cook and season with, and meat, avocado and eggs. I'm not tracking calories but I'm sure I range from 1000 to 1300 a day on average. Ironically it's my years of unsuccessful food tracking that makes this system work; because if that I know what foods have a good protein/fat ratio and what a healthy portion size should be by sight, and which veggies are high in carbs without corresponding fiber. And I don't overeat! The hardest part was learning to just eat freaking less even if I was hungry.

I've managed to lose 22 pounds in the last 3 months with almost no feeling of deprivation and am maintaining a steady slow weight loss. I know when I get closer to my goal weight (20 lbs away) I'll almost certainly plateau and will need to get more strategic and track calories but for now, I'll ride this pony til it drops. I also know it only gets harder from here but I think the closer I get to goal the more motivation I'll find to do the hard stuff. But for now, less complicated has been my friend.
TXTransplant
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You make an important point in that, even if you don't officially track what you're eating, you are eating pretty much the same thing every day (and you have eliminated a lot of foods). That isn't all that different, in that you've learned over time what and how much to eat in order to properly fuel your body. As long as you prioritize lean protein and eat for your BMR, there just won't be a lot of calories left for carbs and fat. Even without tracking, you have an awareness and mindfulness about what you're eating that most people don't have.

But everyone has to start somewhere. Even if you don't formally track, most people don't have a clue what their BMR is or how many calories are in the portions they typically eat. Until you have a firm grasp of that, the tendency will still be to over consume calories (especially so if you don't significantly cut back or eliminate alcohol).

It becomes more complicated if you don't cook all your food at home. Eating out while in a calorie deficit is very difficult because restaurant food has a ton of extra calories (typically from fat). When was the last time you saw a restaurant meal (assuming nutrition info is posted) that was under 700 calories? Most are 1000-1200 (or more). If your BMR is 1400, that's nearly your entire calorie allotment for the whole day in one meal.

For me personally, the freedom in tracking is knowing that there is no food that is off-limits. If I want to have a brownie or some ice cream or whatever, I just account for it and adjust the other things I eat. Now, on a day to day basis, I don't consume those types of foods at all (pasta is pretty much non-existent in my diet), but I don't tell myself I CAN'T have those things. I just adjust for it. And some days (like yesterday or when I'm on vacation) I don't track at all. But I will be right back at it this week.
Tex117
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AG
jenn96 said:

irresistible force
You are right, I'm definitely an irresistible force.
Tex117
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AG
TXTransplant said:

You can get a very good estimate of your BMR from an InBody machine. My fitness studio has one, and lots of drs offices have them. It's not a difficult or expensive thing to do, and it doesn't require extensive testing. You stand on a scale and hold some electrodes. You get a printout with your BMR as well as an estimation of your % body fat and the amount of muscle mass you have. It's not perfect, but it perfectly fine for most people.

Knowing your BMR is half the battle, IMO, because I would gather that most people have absolutely no clue what their caloric intake needs are and end up swinging too far one way or the other (I know just as many women who chronically UNDER eat as who over eat, and both are bad if you really want to change your body composition). The 2000 calories per day guideline (at least for women) is total garbage, unless you want to be overweight.

If you want to lose weight, the advice from actual experts in this area is to eat 10-20% less than your BMR. You get a little bit of wiggle room if you exercise, but most professionals in this area do not take calories burned from exercise as part of your BMR during weight loss. Why? Because most people grossly overestimate how much they exercise and how many calories they burn doing it. Those fitness trackers we all wear are great for tracking trends and habits, but they are not accurate when it comes to calories burned.

Step 2 is to change your eating habits, based on your BMR. I say change because you should start prioritizing protein. There are a few different rule of thumb recommendations on this: 1g for every lb you WANT to weigh (so if you are 150 lbs and want to weigh 130, eat 130 g of protein), at least 100 g per day (for women), or 40-50% if your total caloric intake (closer to 50%, if you are really serious).

The focus on protein is for two reasons: it keeps you from over-eating the other macros and it can help prevent muscle LOSS during the calorie deficit stage. You won't likely gain any muscle in a calorie deficit (there are a few exceptions, if you read that link I posted), but you can keep from losing significant muscle.

For most people, especially women, eating this much protein is a HUGE change in their habits. The remaining macros are split between fat and carbs, but because you're in a calorie deficit, it's going to inherently be low fat and low(ish) carb. Basically once you hit your protein goal, there just aren't a whole lot of calories left for other stuff.

Do this for 6-8 weeks, and you will see progress. The plan I've used steps the deficit down in two week increments. You also get a "double carb day" on day per week (meaning you eat 2x the number of carbs you eat the rest of the week but keep fat and protein the same). Depending on how much weight you want to lose, you may have to do a couple of different cycles.

Once you hit your goal weight, your BMR will have likely changed. If you weigh significantly less, your BMR will be lower. However if you are active, your maintenance window has a little more wiggle room - meaning you can eat more on some days and less on others. In maintenance, you shouldn't have to track fat or carbs at all as long as you are hitting your protein goal and not exceeding your total calories.

Like was said in a previous post you do this long enough and you "learn" what to eat. It is most definitely a lifestyle change. If you do want to gain significant muscle, this plan is not sufficient. You need to be in a calorie surplus to build muscle (in which you gain fat), and then you will need to be on a calorie deficit to lose the fat. Most people seriously committed to this lifestyle understand that building significant muscle takes YEARS and a very consistent presence in the gym. Like being there 5 days a week lifting HEAVY.

I light weights 3 days a week for a total of about 3 hrs (the other days I do cardio). My lower body is very strong (I can hip thrust 305 lbs). But I am by no means "shredded". I do look muscular, but 3 days a week isn't enough to get me quite where I would prefer to be from an aesthetic standpoint.

I will add a couple of things I have noticed - tracking calories is KEY. If I do not pay attention to what I eat (and how much I eat) I WILL overeat. Throw in something like alcohol, and your ability to hit your calorie goals goes out the window. Personally, even after several years, I still measure a lot of my food. It's really not a big deal or as onerous as people think it is. I have a scale in my kitchen and just weigh a portion into whatever container or plate I'm eating from.

Most Americans also don't realize how small the portion size on the nutrition label really is. Until you make this connection in your brain, you will also continue to overeat. A typical serving size of just about any processed/packaged food is 30 g, and that is NOT a lot of good. This will hit home when you decide you want some nuts or peanut butter and go to weigh out the portion.

Also, the maintenance window is probably not as wide as we would all hope. I've been doing this long enough to know that if I eat at the high end of my maintenance window all the time, eventually I will gain weight.

If you have significant weight to lose and keto works for you (because it keeps you from over eating foods that you have a real problem with consuming in moderation), then by all means go keto. The goal is to lose weight, so do whatever it takes.

Where a lack of calorie and protein tracking will become an issue is when you start to approach or hit your goal weight. If you want to gain muscle (and in particular for women, not be "skinny fat"), you have to put in more effort by tracking your protein intake, limiting total calories, and lifting heavy. Keto alone will only get you so far.

I suspect men have more "success" on keto because inherently most men have a higher BMR and higher amount of muscle mass than most women. So they are starting with a bit of an advantage. But they will eventually hit the same plateau as well. Also, as you lose fat, muscles become more visible, mistakenly leading people to believe they "gained" muscle. No, the muscle you already had just isn't covered by fat.

If you lose weight and are cool with that plateau, that's a perfectly great place to be, too. But you still have to be mindful of BMR because, as we age, even keeping all things the same, we lose muscle mass. So, you have to be aware of your BMR and how many calories you are consuming in relation to it if you want to keep the weight off for the LONG TERM (ie, the rest of your life).

I will also say that the information above applies to ALL diets - macro counting, keto, carnivore, vegetarian, and even pharmaceutically-driven weight loss (semaglutide). Don't get me started on how unethical it is to put unhealthy/overweight people on a drug that makes them eat significantly less and not give them information on how to optimize the calories they are eating. Semaglutide alone is a starvation diet. I've watched a good friend swing from one eating disorder (binge eating) to another (grossly under eating). Her body is literally eating itself because she is not consuming enough calories. But, hey, at least she's not obese.

I realize this is a really long post, but I hope it's enough to finally debunk this myth that somehow keto and carnivore diets are "healthier" or "better" for "burning fat and "building muscle". Because they are not. At best, that's misleading, and worst, it's flat out not true.

PREACH.

This should be stickied at the top of this sub-forum.

305 hip thrust? This is the bench press for women

AgLiving06
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What are yall doing for high protein? Trying to eat it or supplementing with protein powder/shakes?
Tex117
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AG
AgLiving06 said:

What are yall doing for high protein? Trying to eat it or supplementing with protein powder/shakes?
Eggs/Egg Whites
Greek Yogurt
Cottage Cheese
Tuna Fish
Chicken Breast
Ground Beef
Ground Turkey
Protein Shakes

That's what I've been using.
aggiegolfer03
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AG
I end up eating more powder than I'd really like but a typical day's eating for me looks something like this:

breakfast:
10-14 oz of 2% milk with 1.5-2 scoops of whey and a tablespoon or 2 of PB2.
Fruit: Medium banana/6 oz. berries/ 1 lb watermelon/2 small apples/2 small oranges. I like to roll out of bed late and grab and go for breakfast during the week.

10 AM snack: Premier Protein chocolate whey shake or a bag of Quest protein chips.

Lunch: usually I've cooked chicken/steak/pork for a few days and eat that with a steammable bag of veggies (such as a broccoli/cauliflower/carrot blend that is about 3-4 servings. Typically I'll eat this with a piece of a fruit.

3 pm snack: same as 10 am snack

Supper: similar to lunch, but I'm likely to eat this at a steakhouse/chain restaurant/freebirds/chipotle as well.

Pre bed snack: 1-1.5 servings of greek yogurt (I use oikos triple 0 vanilla in the tub) with 1-2 servings of either fiber one or Keto Friendly PB or Chocolate puffs. May add some PB2 to the puffs.

Usually gets me around 2500 cals. On weekends, my eating is less "on schedule", but similar foods are eaten. A big tub of movie popcorn (1100 cals or so) about every 2 weeks is the closest thing I do to a "cheat" meal. If i have to eat something I know is junk like pizza or something to exist in reality, I just eat less of it. Only thing I really "avoid" is Italian food.

When I'm done with fatloss I'll probably just add a peanut butter and jelly sandwich (at a time) to what I'm eating and monitor my weight and add another until my weight is stable or gaining.
jenn96
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AG
I'm on a much lower calorie diet than these guys but I eat eggs and egg whites, chicken, turkey breast, shrimp, tuna, salmon, steak a couple of times a week, pork rinds instead of chips when I just need something to crunch. (Not everyday). Almonds for a snack. And I mostly eat greens or cruciferous vegetables as sides and they have some protein. I make the protein my big portion and the vegetable a smaller side.

I do a scoop of collagen powder every day but don't count it towards my protein. But it probably adds a little incomplete protein as well.

My goal is 90-100 grams a day, ballpark.
TXTransplant
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AgLiving06 said:

What are yall doing for high protein? Trying to eat it or supplementing with protein powder/shakes?


The only protein powder I use is egg white protein. I can't stand the other stuff. I only put it in my overnight oats, acai bowls, and omelettes/scrambled eggs. I eat overnight oats every day, but the acai bowls and omelettes are only on occasion.

To get to 150-160 g of protein, a typical day looks like this:
Breakfast: Overnight oats with 1/2 scoop of egg white protein, made with Greek yogurt and Mootopia skim milk
1 serving coconut collagen powder in my coffee or matcha (I count this towards my protein, even though you're not supposed to)

Snack: 1 container fat free or low fat Greek yogurt (with berries and stevia to make it palatable)

Lunch: 4 oz turkey breast with one slice low fat cheese and lettuce on a lavash wrap
Usually I will also have a bag of Quest crackers or a Fulfil protein bar with lunch. My favorite were the Popcorners protein crisps, but evidently those have been discontinued.

Dinner: 4-6 oz lean protein (usually chicken breast or ground turkey or shrimp; ground beef/steak or salmon maybe a few times a month). Usually with a salad or veggie bowl (cauliflower rice, broccoli, zucchini, mushrooms, etc). I can usually afford a little fat in the way of cheese (goat, feta, or low fat cows milk), sour cream, avocado, or pesto, depending on what flavors I'm craving. I sometimes will do tzatziki and hummus.

This summer I added in a sweet cream cold brew with Mootopia skim milk in the am. 3/4 cup cold brew and 1 cup milk. I make vanilla cold foam with 1/4 cup of the milk in my frothing machine. I mix the rest of the milk with the cold brew and froth it with my handheld frother. Then I pour the cold foam on top. 13 g of protein and it's delicious!

Currently shooting for 1400 calories/day and am toying with going down to 1200 for a short period. I was not as strict with myself in maintenance mode this year and have a few extra lbs I want to get rid of.

I also don't track certain "free foods" - which includes most cruciferous veggies. I can eat as much of those as I want (broccoli, Cauli, Brussel sprouts, asparagus, zucchini, etc).
SARATOGA
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some really really really long posts here which massively overcomplicate a pretty simple thing. However I recently got an Apple watch and its been interesting to see some of the data.

And are you encouraging people to eat BELOW their BMR assuming zero activity/not working out ? BMR meaning basic metabolic rate to maintain homeostasis, think, breathe, digest, pump blood around your body and perform basic body functions.....

This isn't counting activity....

Eating below 1400 calories a day sounds like a starvation diet, and low calorie diets depending on self-control (a limited resource) have been failing for decades. Eat less move more is pretty great advice other than the fact that its nearly impossible to actually do !

Today at ~2:50pm
Resting Energy Used so far (I assume since midnight?): 1447 calories
Movement/Activity Energy used so far: 1120 calories (workout over lunch), and I guess other movement.
Blood Oxygen level 97%
Heart rate Resting 53bpm
Steps (so far):8320

and there are still ~7 hours till bed and between now and then there is football practice with one kid and soccer practice for another.

2 eggs with cheese for breakfast.
Roast Beef, Prosciutto, and Cheese for lunch.
Ribeye, maybe 2 for dinner ?
Maybe a protein shake (with another couple eggs) after if I'm still hungry.

Eating real food until you are full is pretty easy.
How many calories do I eat ? Dunno
What do I weigh ? Dunno (exactly - I don't weigh regularly)

Several others on here seem to agree.


Tex117
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SARATOGA said:

some really really really long posts here which massively overcomplicate a pretty simple thing. However I recently got an Apple watch and its been interesting to see some of the data.

And are you encouraging people to eat BELOW their BMR assuming zero activity/not working out ?



Yup. It is easy.

Calories above maintenance. Gain weight. (Some muscle, some fat...with heavy resistance training, its more muscle, but also some fat)
Calories below maintenance. Lose weight (Some fat and some muscle. with heavy resistance training, its more fat, but also some muscle)

However, you accomplish this. You lose (or gain) weight. Nothing to do with keto or any other nonsense.

Great you aren't counting, but you are adhering to the formula above whether you know it or not.

TxTransplant is not advocating eating below BMR. Clearly.
TXTransplant
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I never said or encouraged anyone to eat below their BMR. I do it on occasion, but with very specific goals and the understanding that it's not sustainable for more than about 2 weeks.

What I SAID was you need to KNOW your BMR in order to determine what your calorie deficit looks like. BMR represents the minimum number of calories your body needs if you were to do not much more than breathe. Everyone burns some calories through daily activities (more if you exercise regularly). However, most people grossly overestimate the number of calories they burn exercising. So you really have to educate yourself to do this properly (or consult a professional to help you).

My BMR is not much more than 1400 calories, so it's not a starvation diet for me, if I only do it short term. What I do have to be careful of is, eating in a caloric deficit, your body will burn BOTH fat and muscle. You cannot dictate how it burns one or the other. So, it's VERY hard to maintain muscle and nearly impossible to build muscle if you are eating in a caloric deficit. The inverse is also true - you can't gain muscle unless you eat in a calorie surplus (accounting for BMI AND physical activity).

Apple watches notoriously overestimate calories burned by something like 20-40%. They should not be used for accuracy, but to monitor trends.

If you are not watching what you eat (measuring portions and understanding how many calories you are consuming vs how many you need), I can almost guarantee you will eventually stop losing weight because you will end up eating more calories than you burn. How long it takes one person to get to that point depends on how much excess weight they carry and how many calories they eat. The more weight you lose, the fewer calories your body needs to maintain that weight (unless you significantly increase muscle mass, but you are not likely to do that in a calorie deficit).

Over the last year, I have not strictly counted calories or tracked my macros (sometimes I tracked, sometimes I didn't). But I HAVE hit my goal of 150-160 g of protein nearly every single day.

I had an Inbody scan a couple of weeks ago for the first time in about 9 months. I weigh a few lbs MORE than I did at that last scan, but I have a lower % body fat and more muscle mass. Over the course of this year, I unintentionally did a small "bulk". I accomplished this while still (occasionally) eating cake, ice cream, chips, French fries, sweet potatoes, pretzels, bread, and other foods that I enjoy.

I'm pretty sure you are a man. I don't know what you weigh, but I'm betting it's significantly more than the 130 lbs I weigh.

I do track my protein (to make sure I hit my goals) and weigh on a regular basis because 5-10 extra lbs makes a much bigger difference for me than it does on someone who weighs 175-200 lbs.

I don't get your comment about "eating real food". I eat real food, too, and don't restrict all foods in an entire macro group based on the false assumption that those foods are "bad" for my body. I'm not diabetic or pre-diabetic, so glucose and "blood sugar spikes" are not detrimental to my health. From a purely scientific standpoint, restricting an entire food/macro group is completely unnecessary for weight loss (I get that there is a psychological component for some people, particularly ones who tend to binge certain foods).

Contrary to what you and others want to believe, a keto diet does NOT make you burn fat or put the body in "fat burning mode" (same goes for intermittent fasting, since I heard someone say the same thing about that the other day). Eating in a calorie deficit is what burns fat (and, inherently, some muscle). If you are diabetic, obviously carbs and sugar are problematic. But if you are not diabetic, there is absolutely no reason why you can't or shouldn't eat sugar and/or carbs (in moderation, of course - protein should be the primary source of calories for most people; 40% of calories from protein is a really good target to shoot for, splitting the rest between fat and carbs, depending on preference).
Tex117
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TXTransplant said:



I had an Inbody scan a couple of weeks ago for the first time in about 9 months. I weigh a few lbs MORE than I did at that last scan, but I have a lower % body fat and more muscle mass. Over the course of this year, I unintentionally did a small "bulk". I accomplished this while still (occasionally) eating cake, ice cream, chips, French fries, sweet potatoes, pretzels, bread, and other foods that I enjoy.


Hell yeah! This is the good stuff. Good work!

TXTransplant
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Thanks. It's amazing how seeing a small change in the right direction can shift your whole mindset. I was really struggling with discipline and focus, both eating and working out.

Now I'm back on a macros plan, and I've been pushing myself at the gym. Not sure yet what the outcome will be (trying to maintain the muscle I've built but reduce % body fat so that extra muscle pops), but I'm more motivated than I've been all year.
Tex117
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TXTransplant said:

Thanks. It's amazing how seeing a small change in the right direction can shift your whole mindset. I was really struggling with discipline and focus, both eating and working out.

Now I'm back on a macros plan, and I've been pushing myself at the gym. Not sure yet what the outcome will be (trying to maintain the muscle I've built but reduce % body fat so that extra muscle pops), but I'm more motivated than I've been all year.
Well, we know that in spite of all the marketing around fitness and nutrition, it really is a long game. A game where you can go awhile and feel like you aren't making any progress at all (you are, but you really can't see it...and if you can...you see yourself everyday so it feels like no progress is being made).

When you get concrete numbers that confirm that what you are doing is correct, its absolutely motivating!

Matsui
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Congrats! Love a higher muscle and lower fat report !
TXTransplant
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I tell people all the time that high protein isn't a diet but a lifestyle change.

I've known in my head this is true, but to see it actually reflected in my numbers like that is so rewarding. I didn't want to gain weight, but seeing some of that weight is muscle and it's not all fat is huge, especially since I wasn't tracking total calories.

Consistently hitting that 40-50% protein target really is a game changer.
Tex117
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TXTransplant said:

I tell people all the time that high protein isn't a diet but a lifestyle change.

I've known in my head this is true, but to see it actually reflected in my numbers like that is so rewarding. I didn't want to gain weight, but seeing some of that weight is muscle and it's not all fat is huge, especially since I wasn't tracking total calories.

Consistently hitting that 40-50% protein target really is a game changer.
Sadly, with many women, they are so concerned about scale weight (especially, I have found women that were born in the 80s and grew up in the 90s were really impacted by that whole "heroine chic"/ Ally McBeal look).

Alot of women should do what you are doing (or have done) and actually try and go UP in weight by putting on some good lean mass. Its healthier in the long run...and Im sure you look and feel awesome!

Ive been trying to tell my sister this for years. She needs to eat more (especially protein) and go lift.

I even suffered from this as well. I cut down way too low in body weight for my height. Decided enough was enough and went the other way. I look MUCH better. Feel better. And Im MUCH stronger than I was.
TXTransplant
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Born in 1978 and you are so right about this.

I joke I was born in the wrong decade because I have the kind of bootie and thighs the Kardashians made trendy (before they went crazy and got implants). Took me 40+ years to appreciate it!

The gals that provide my macros say there are as many women my age undereating as they do overeating. Sadly, a lot of them drink their calories.

I'm not gonna lie when I say the 40s is a rough time, and my body reminds me I'm aging every single day. Perimenopause symptoms and hormone fluctuations are no joke - way worse than puberty or pregnancy. But staying the course with a high protein diet and focused strength training and limiting alcohol intake are the best way to manage those symptoms and not have them take over your life.
Tex117
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TXTransplant said:

Born in 1978 and you are so right about this.

I joke I was born in the wrong decade because I have the kind of bootie and thighs the Kardashians made trendy (before they went crazy and got implants). Took me 40+ years to appreciate it!

The gals that provide my macros say there are as many women my age undereating as they do overeating. Sadly, a lot of them drink their calories.

I'm not gonna lie when I say the 40s is a rough time, and my body reminds me I'm aging every single day. Perimenopause symptoms and hormone fluctuations are no joke - way worse than puberty or pregnancy. But staying the course with a high protein diet and focused strength training and limiting alcohol intake are the best way to manage those symptoms and not have them take over your life.
Yup. There it is. My sister says she inherited some of her issues with scale weight from my mother, a young women in the 1970's that had that slender frame as well (she was always thin), but how "dieting" was always a "thing."

Ha! Thats a great thing! It does seem that younger women now have a much healthier attitude towards the booty and the thighs than pervious generations. As they say "thicc thighs save lives." High fashion will always be high fashion (walking coat hangers), but it seems the fitness industry has more or less embraced the "athletic" aesthetic that promotes actual healthy weight gain. (It took me years to finally get it through my thick skull that not all weight gain is created equal. Bulking is 100% NOT the same as just gaining weight because of overeating. Totally different body comp.)

I absolutely believe that when it comes to under-eating. It can be a very difficult problem to correct (even without an eating disorder). So much of the "diet" is pumped into our minds about eating less and losing weight. Sometimes, eating more (in the right macros) is actually the better way to go combined with correct training.

Thats absolutely awesome right there. I know for women, hitting the gym as one gets older is even more important to promote stronger bones and retain muscle mass (men too, but women are more susceptible to osteoporosis). Sounds like you are doing all the good stuff and seeing solid results. Thanks for sharing!

Matsui
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same
aggiederelict
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My wife is your age and she is going through some of the same things you are describing. We have two young kids and she is struggling with trying to find the energy to workout and be healthier overall. She also really struggles with sleep, which she has for years, but it appears to be getting worse.

Are you seeing someone about the perimenopausal symptoms? I want my wife to see a specialists but after her most recent bloodowork her primary care doc said she was fine because her thyroid numbers were in range.

She is definitely showing sings of perimenopause and I think if she is honest with herself she knows it as well but it isn't an easy topic to bring up in a supportive way.

TXTransplant
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Yes!!! I see Dr Susan Hardwick Smith. Her practice, Complete Midlife Wellness Center, is exclusively for women 40+ who are pre- and post-menopause. I've had my hormone levels checked annually for the last few years, but as my symptoms are worsening, I think I may need to increase that to twice a year.

I still see my NP for a traditional annual exam, but she flat out told me that big hospital systems are NOT set up to help women like us manage their hormones in this stage of life, and was very happy to hear I'm also consulting Dr. Susan.

At this stage, our hormones may well still be within "normal" levels, but that doesn't mean they haven't changed enough for us to experience symptoms. For me particularly, the "lows" in my cycle are much lower than when I was younger and the symptoms are very noticeable.

Dr Susan is cash only, but you can do your bloodwork anywhere, so I go to Quest and pay a reduced fee per my insurance negotiations. She has recently expanded her practice to include additional doctors.
TXTransplant
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Also I highly recommend she read a book called Estrogen Matters.

https://www.amazon.com/Estrogen-Matters-Hormones-Menopause-Well-Being/dp/0316481203
 
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