Philip J Fry said:

---

Those settings were post titration? If you're awake when this is happening, your setting might need adjusting

---

I don't breathe deeply and the ASV interprets that as not breathing at all and ramps up a pulse of air. I set the machine to a 45 minute ramp which is the max and simply could not fall asleep before it started to engage. Same problem during my sleep study. I dont see at all how this is going to help me by preventing me from sleeping at all.

Cromagnum said:

---

Last night was day 1 at home with an ASV. Three hours sitting there with the damned thing trying to inflate me like a balloon every time it thought I wasn't breathing enough. Took it off and instantly went to sleep.

---

Some nights I wear it all night. Other nights, like last night, I tear the @#&! damn thing off after 15 minutes and go to sleep. My GF usually complains that I snore when I don't wear it. Other nights, it's just half a night or whatever I can tolerate.

It is generally better when I wear it, even if for a few hours. I take some Melatonin 30 minutes or so before bed to help fall and stay asleep.

Cromagnum said:

---

Philip J Fry said:

---

Those settings were post titration? If you're awake when this is happening, your setting might need adjusting

---

I don't breathe deeply and the ASV interprets that as not breathing at all and ramps up a pulse of air. I set the machine to a 45 minute ramp which is the max and simply could not fall asleep before it started to engage. Same problem during my sleep study. I dont see at all how this is going to help me by preventing me from sleeping at all.

---

I also find that putting the mask on without the hose while I read or surf my phone for a bit helps me adjust to having it on. And as I said, the melatonin.

Sounds like a trigger setting needs to be adjusted. Took me a while to find a good bi pap setting.

Get the surgery done to repair your deviated septum my friend. I had it done in February and I also have sleep apnea. The surgery is a game changer.

Night 2 of zero sleep with this thing on. Tried for 3 hours and just cannot fall asleep while wearing this ***** Fell asleep nearly instantly once it was back off.

You have a full mask or the nasal pillows?

tailgating hall of fame said:

---

Get the surgery done to repair your deviated septum my friend. I had it done in February and I also have sleep apnea. The surgery is a game changer.

---

How bad was the surgery and especially the recovery?

Guess I'm fortunate…have slept like a baby from day one with mine. Hope you get it figured out.

Surgery was a piece of cake. Your nose will be a little sore
( probably a 3 on a scale of 1 - 10) but, they will prescribe pain meds. I had splints in my nose for 1 week post op. Not the most fun thing to do…but it's not to bad. Basically just feels like you've got a stopped up nose. BUT …… when they remove the splints you can breath better than you ever have and it's a pretty cool feeling. On a side note, I had a pretty bad deviated septum and getting it fixed and being able to breath better has improved my workouts. I would highly recommend the surgery.

The decreased snoring and happier wife is just a side effect. The real reason to treat your OSA is your own cardiopulmonary health and mental health/dementia.


Clip from AI Query:

Over time, untreated obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) can lead to significant health consequences, affecting multiple systems in the body. Below is an overview of the long-term effects and risks associated with OSA:
Cardiovascular and Metabolic Effects

• Hypertension: OSA contributes to high blood pressure, including difficult-to-treat hypertension. Studies show that untreated OSA triples the risk of developing hypertension over time18.
• Heart Disease and Stroke: OSA is linked to coronary artery disease, heart failure, atrial fibrillation, myocardial infarction, and stroke. These risks are due to repeated drops in blood oxygen levels and increased stress on the cardiovascular system136.
• Diabetes and Metabolic Syndrome: Untreated OSA increases the risk of type 2 diabetes and metabolic syndrome. A meta-analysis found a 62% higher risk of developing diabetes in individuals with OSA13.

Neurocognitive and Mental Health Impacts

• Cognitive Decline: Memory problems, impaired concentration, and neurocognitive dysfunction are common. However, no direct link between OSA and dementia has been conclusively established14.
• Mood Disorders: Depression, anxiety, and irritability are frequently reported in individuals with untreated OSA7.

Daytime Functioning and Safety

• Excessive Daytime Sleepiness (EDS): EDS significantly impairs quality of life, reduces productivity, and increases the risk of motor vehicle accidents. CPAP therapy has been shown to alleviate EDS effectively26.
• Reduced Quality of Life: Chronic fatigue and poor sleep quality lead to diminished daytime performance and overall well-being16.

Mortality Risk

• Severe OSA is associated with a significantly higher risk of premature death due to cardiovascular events. For instance, studies show that individuals with severe OSA have an almost fourfold increased risk of all-cause mortality compared to those without OSA13.

Other Long-Term Risks

• Respiratory Complications: Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) may be exacerbated by untreated OSA6.
• Sexual Dysfunction: Decreased libido and erectile dysfunction are common in individuals with untreated OSA7.
• Driving Safety: Untreated OSA significantly raises the likelihood of motor vehicle accidents due to impaired alertness24.

Management and Mitigation
Treatment options like continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) therapy can improve daytime sleepiness, quality of life, and some cardiovascular outcomes. However, evidence regarding long-term reductions in mortality or stroke remains inconclusive. Lifestyle interventions such as weight loss also play a critical role in mitigating the severity of OSA12.
Citations:
[ol]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6609382/

https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.10832

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/the-dangers-of-uncontrolled-sleep-apnea

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK459252/

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24443-obstructive-sleep-apnea-osa

https://www.healthline.com/health/sleep-apnea/effects-on-body

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/obstructive-sleep-apnea/symptoms-causes/syc-20352090

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/what-doctors-wish-patients-knew-about-sleep-apnea

[/ol]
Answer from Perplexity: pplx.ai/share

GeorgiAg said:

---

Cromagnum said:

---

Last night was day 1 at home with an ASV. Three hours sitting there with the damned thing trying to inflate me like a balloon every time it thought I wasn't breathing enough. Took it off and instantly went to sleep.

---

Some nights I wear it all night. Other nights, like last night, I tear the @#&! damn thing off after 15 minutes and go to sleep. My GF usually complains that I snore when I don't wear it. Other nights, it's just half a night or whatever I can tolerate.

It is generally better when I wear it, even if for a few hours. I take some Melatonin 30 minutes or so before bed to help fall and stay asleep.

---

Try taking the melatonin 90 minutes prior to sleep time. I just learned that trick this summer at a pediatric medical education meeting.

It really can be a pain to get used to - the right mask was huge for me, and learning how to get relaxed and not panic breathe because of the air getting pushed in while exhaling. Dealing with the stress and anxiety of the mask and air pressure itself is 90% of the learning curve. I got a little better each day for several weeks then by a month in I realized I had adjusted really well and I have felt completely different since. Haven't had caffeine in nearly two years now. Don't have that micronap sensation all the time. I have the energy to exercise and work all day.

KidDoc said:

---

GeorgiAg said:

---

Cromagnum said:

---

Last night was day 1 at home with an ASV. Three hours sitting there with the damned thing trying to inflate me like a balloon every time it thought I wasn't breathing enough. Took it off and instantly went to sleep.

---

Some nights I wear it all night. Other nights, like last night, I tear the @#&! damn thing off after 15 minutes and go to sleep. My GF usually complains that I snore when I don't wear it. Other nights, it's just half a night or whatever I can tolerate.

It is generally better when I wear it, even if for a few hours. I take some Melatonin 30 minutes or so before bed to help fall and stay asleep.

---

Try taking the melatonin 90 minutes prior to sleep time. I just learned that trick this summer at a pediatric medical education meeting.

---

I'll try it out. Thanks Doc.

I think I usually take it too late and then have a little residual sleepiness in the morning.

GeorgiAg said:

---

You have a full mask or the nasal pillows?

---

Kind of a hybrid between nasal mask and nasal pillow.

Cromagnum said:

---

GeorgiAg said:

---

You have a full mask or the nasal pillows?

---

Kind of a hybrid between nasal mask and nasal pillow.

---

I had a full mask and the nasal pillows. I first started with the full mask and hated it. Then I went to pillows. The thing I hated about those is that if you open your mouth, it pushes air through your nose and out your mouth. I have a deviated septum and allergy issues, so nasal breathing isn't always the best option. I got the nose pillows to work but then went back to the full mask and found that better in the long run for those reasons.

I found that cleaning my nose out with a saline spray a couple times (and blowing nose thereafter) followed by a couple shots of Flonase helps with breathing at night.

I am very interested in the surgery and may get that done.

This is all an enormous pain in the arse, but the health benefits are real, so I keep plugging along. Keep at it.

Gettin' old sucks, don't it?

You ain't lieing. It starts to go south when you get north of about 35.

Cromagnum said:

---

Night 2 of zero sleep with this thing on. Tried for 3 hours and just cannot fall asleep while wearing this ***** Fell asleep nearly instantly once it was back off.

---

Before you give up on it, go online and purchase two V Com devices and play around with using one or both inline with your machine. They can be an absolute game changer for people having trouble tolerating any type of PAP device. And there are other options for central apnea, such as a backup rate on your PAP device or even phrenic nerve pacing.

Kool said:

---

Cromagnum said:

---

Night 2 of zero sleep with this thing on. Tried for 3 hours and just cannot fall asleep while wearing this ***** Fell asleep nearly instantly once it was back off.

---

Before you give up on it, go online and purchase two V Com devices and play around with using one or both inline with your machine. They can be an absolute game changer for people having trouble tolerating any type of PAP device. And there are other options for central apnea, such as a backup rate on your PAP device or even phrenic nerve pacing.

---

4 nights of zero sleep with it on now. Getting discouraged fast.

Cromagnum said:

---

Night 2 of zero sleep with this thing on. Tried for 3 hours and just cannot fall asleep while wearing this ***** Fell asleep nearly instantly once it was back off.

---

Just remember. You have sleep apnea which means you ****ing stop breathing during the night.

Philip J Fry said:

---

Cromagnum said:

---

Night 2 of zero sleep with this thing on. Tried for 3 hours and just cannot fall asleep while wearing this ***** Fell asleep nearly instantly once it was back off.

---

Just remember. You have sleep apnea which means you ****ing stop breathing during the night.

---

I know. Untreated it will eventually kill me. But not sleeping at all and falling asleep during my commute will also kill me.

Cromagnum said:

---

Kool said:

---

Cromagnum said:

---

Night 2 of zero sleep with this thing on. Tried for 3 hours and just cannot fall asleep while wearing this ***** Fell asleep nearly instantly once it was back off.

---

Before you give up on it, go online and purchase two V Com devices and play around with using one or both inline with your machine. They can be an absolute game changer for people having trouble tolerating any type of PAP device. And there are other options for central apnea, such as a backup rate on your PAP device or even phrenic nerve pacing.

---

4 nights of zero sleep with it on now. Getting discouraged fast.

---

Adjust your expectations!

Keep trying. First week, I never fell asleep with it on. Next several weeks, I'd rip it off while sleeping. But after about a month, I made it a night with it on and my life has not been the same. Been using one for 10 years now.

Did the 90 minute melatonin thing. Better sleeps so far! We will see - I plan to keep doing it.

I had to set an alarm in the family room to remind me to get up and take it.

What model mask do you have? I have a ResMed. You mentioned hybrid. Maybe try a full face and/or nasal pillows. As I said in my above post the nasal pillows made me appreciate my full mask.

I also wore the mask on my face with the hose disconnected for about an hour for a bunch of nights before I tried to sleep. Sucks but like anything else, you get used to having it on your face. Plus you get to talk like Darth Vader.

Also, try melatonin or Benadryl before bed to help with sleepiness. Or take a dang THC gummy or something. Alcohol impairs "good" sleep, but I'd do that even, before I gave up.

GeorgiAg said:

---

KidDoc said:

---

GeorgiAg said:

---

Cromagnum said:

---

Last night was day 1 at home with an ASV. Three hours sitting there with the damned thing trying to inflate me like a balloon every time it thought I wasn't breathing enough. Took it off and instantly went to sleep.

---

Some nights I wear it all night. Other nights, like last night, I tear the @#&! damn thing off after 15 minutes and go to sleep. My GF usually complains that I snore when I don't wear it. Other nights, it's just half a night or whatever I can tolerate.

It is generally better when I wear it, even if for a few hours. I take some Melatonin 30 minutes or so before bed to help fall and stay asleep.

---

Try taking the melatonin 90 minutes prior to sleep time. I just learned that trick this summer at a pediatric medical education meeting.

---

I'll try it out. Thanks Doc.

I think I usually take it too late and then have a little residual sleepiness in the morning.

---

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Nature-Made-Wellblends-Back-to-Sleep-120-Fast-Dissolve-Tablets/5142301324

These have been working really well for me. Helps me go to sleep and if you wake up in the middle of the night it helps me get back. It says not to take unless you have 4 hours left to sleep so you dont wake up drowsy and ive found that it doesnt really bother me much like other melatonin pills i have taken.

Thanks! I'll check it out. I'm starting to think good sleep should be the top priority for health.

I guess I'm old now and have to have a "routine" at night to get some good sleep. That's a great option for when I forget to take 5mg melatonin early enought.

VERY interesting (but small) study out of Australia this week.

New nighttime nasal spray significantly alleviates sleep apnea

Indeed. Something simple like that would be a game changer.

Just found this thread and relieving to find out that there is one. TexAgs has it all, I swear.

Just got back from my follow-up after the in clinic sleep study as the take home study wasn't definitive. My mother has severe sleep apnea and I was shocked to find out that I didn't show any signs of sleep apnea, even after pressing the doctor. Honestly, I still don't believe it. The take home test is largely worthless, but did seemingly show mild apnea, just not enough to diagnose, and thus the full study.

In either case, I do have severe snoring. If it's not apnea, I just don't get quality sleep. I don't have daytime fatigue to the point of falling asleep, but I feel sluggish pretty much daily. I still work out and do yard work and ski and do all the things I want to do, but I just feel like I'm doing it on 5 out of 8 cylinders at best. For someone so active, by blood pressure is higher than it should be, which also added to my suspicions. AND, I wake up a few times a year gasping for air -- I know that can be other things like nocturnal panic attacks, etc. though. I have an overbite as well - in hindsight, I wished I'd opted for the super painful surgery my orthodontist recommended as a kid to fix my jaw and overbite, but opted for head gear instead.

Having said all of that, I'm almost at a point where I may just try to get a CPAP anyways, even if supposedly not apnea and just for the snoring/low quality of sleep aspects of my current sleeping. I've researched the dental devices a bit, but seems like more harm than good. Plus, I grind my teeth and have a retainer that currently doubles as my grind guard and retainer.

Any thoughts from the experts?

Not an expert but I would see an ENT to scope anatomy and consider correction of septal deviations or other surgical correction. Consider doing intranasal steroid spray until the visit because they will always do that first.

KidDoc said:

---

Not an expert but I would see an ENT to scope anatomy and consider correction of septal deviations or other surgical correction. Consider doing intranasal steroid spray until the visit because they will always do that first.

---

Thanks!

KidDoc said:

---

Not an expert but I would see an ENT to scope anatomy and consider correction of septal deviations or other surgical correction. Consider doing intranasal steroid spray until the visit because they will always do that first.

---

Agree, you need your anatomy looked at to determine the site of your obstruction. In order for an oral appliance to be able to deliver sufficient benefits for apnea, you need to be able to protrude your lower jaw 4-5 mm forward. It could possibly help snoring with less protrusion. As you said you had an underbite, you might not be able to do that. Similarly, an oral appliance can shift your teeth and it can give you (or exacerbate) TMJ.

In terms of purchasing a CPAP machine, there is a little risk in doing that if you don't actually have apnea. Overtreatment of OSA (such as using higher pressures than necessary with CPAP or using CPAP when you are not obstructing to begin with) can lead to treatment emergent central sleep apnea. That's a condition where your airway senses excessive pressure and turns off the signal to breathe. I don't know that I would endeavor upon that on my own without knowing a lot about CPAP. If you did do that, though, I would get an autoPAP device and get it set very low, maybe 4-8 cm H2O. That is NOT, however, my recommendation.

Kool said:

---

KidDoc said:

---

Not an expert but I would see an ENT to scope anatomy and consider correction of septal deviations or other surgical correction. Consider doing intranasal steroid spray until the visit because they will always do that first.

---

Agree, you need your anatomy looked at to determine the site of your obstruction. In order for an oral appliance to be able to deliver sufficient benefits for apnea, you need to be able to protrude your lower jaw 4-5 mm forward. It could possibly help snoring with less protrusion. As you said you had an underbite, you might not be able to do that. Similarly, an oral appliance can shift your teeth and it can give you (or exacerbate) TMJ.

In terms of purchasing a CPAP machine, there is a little risk in doing that if you don't actually have apnea. Overtreatment of OSA (such as using higher pressures than necessary with CPAP or using CPAP when you are not obstructing to begin with) can lead to treatment emergent central sleep apnea. That's a condition where your airway senses excessive pressure and turns off the signal to breathe. I don't know that I would endeavor upon that on my own without knowing a lot about CPAP. If you did do that, though, I would get an autoPAP device and get it set very low, maybe 4-8 cm H2O. That is NOT, however, my recommendation.

---

Thank you, very helpful. I have an overbite, not under, so not sure if that changes any of your thoughts there. That's good to know on the potential risks of cpap without having apnea.

I could have read that wrong, sorry. Test it out, can you move your lower jaw down and forward without significant jaw joint pain? You could always try a cheap "boil and bite" device you get online and see if it cuts down on your snoring, either with the aid of a fitness tracker or a bed partner measuring the response.