Anyone planning on watching the upcoming History Channel Mini-series about Grant? Hopefully it will be much more historically accurate than Texas Rising which was fought in the mountains around San Jacinto!! From this trailer, it looks like they will focus some on the Battle of Shiloh, which is one of my favorites to read and study about (been there multiple times).
Grant mini-series
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Last: 5 yr ago by oragator
I'll give it a look but I'm not expecting much.
Read the book, interesting how much is brought out from the book as the book delt a lot about his drinking, think to much.
Spore Ag said:
Read the book, interesting how much is brought out from the book as the book delt a lot about his drinking, think to much.
Has his drinking ever been proven or is it one of those things that has always been said as fact?
"If you run into an ******* in the morning, you ran into an *******. If you run into *******s all day, you're the *******." – Raylan Givens, "Justified."
Was proven. His wife watched over him as well as some that believed in his military abilities. A lot of the drinking stories were used against him politically. He did smoke an amazing 21 ciigars a day.
A book by Frank Vandiver (former A&M President and Civil War historian) wrote that on a visit by Gen. Sherman to Grant, Sherman brought his personal physician to look over Grant (clandestinely of course) to gage how Grant's health, and liver especially, were holding up. Sherman was worried Grant's drinking was going to kill him.Smokedraw01 said:Spore Ag said:
Read the book, interesting how much is brought out from the book as the book delt a lot about his drinking, think to much.
Has his drinking ever been proven or is it one of those things that has always been said as fact?
Thanks guys.
"If you run into an ******* in the morning, you ran into an *******. If you run into *******s all day, you're the *******." – Raylan Givens, "Justified."
--Grant was an alcoholic
--He had a low threshold for drink too, didn't take much to get him drunk
--Did his serious (heavy) drinking in the pre-war army and basically had to resign due to his drinking.
-- His drinking occurred during periods of inactivity and when separated from Julia, his wife.
--During the war his COS John Rawlins kept him on a short leash with regard alcohol
--The pre-war army was a small community and everyone knew why he resigned from the pre-war army, when the war began the rumors flowed about him being a drunk.
-- He went on one bender during the siege of Vicksburg when Rawlins wasn't around and he was inactive. It would be the last known drunken episode of his life.
--As president, he learned to keep one drink all night and only partake in toasts and even then he may have only put the glass to his lips.
--He had a low threshold for drink too, didn't take much to get him drunk
--Did his serious (heavy) drinking in the pre-war army and basically had to resign due to his drinking.
-- His drinking occurred during periods of inactivity and when separated from Julia, his wife.
--During the war his COS John Rawlins kept him on a short leash with regard alcohol
--The pre-war army was a small community and everyone knew why he resigned from the pre-war army, when the war began the rumors flowed about him being a drunk.
-- He went on one bender during the siege of Vicksburg when Rawlins wasn't around and he was inactive. It would be the last known drunken episode of his life.
--As president, he learned to keep one drink all night and only partake in toasts and even then he may have only put the glass to his lips.
BQ78 said:
--Grant was an alcoholic
--He had a low threshold for drink too, didn't take much to get him drunk
--Did his serious (heavy) drinking in the pre-war army and basically had to resign due to his drinking.
-- His drinking occurred during periods of inactivity and when separated from Julia, his wife.
--During the war his COS John Rawlins kept him on a short leash with regard alcohol
--The pre-war army was a small community and everyone knew why he resigned from the pre-war army, when the war began the rumors flowed about him being a drunk.
-- He went on one bender during the siege of Vicksburg when Rawlins wasn't around and he was inactive. It would be the last known drunken episode of his life.
--As president, he learned to keep one drink all night and only partake in toasts and even then he may have only put the glass to his lips.
More history here than you're gonna get in the movie this weekend on the history channel. Probably more explosions and kissing in the movie, though.
The book was fantastic. This could be good.
Im banking on a love story with a secret love affair between Grant and RE Lee's wife, which is really the cause of the civil war that historians don't want us to find out.
Awe Sh8t. That lost me right there.JABQ04 said:
Im banking on a love story with a secret love affair between Grant and RE Lee's wife, which is really the cause of the civil war that historians don't want us to find out.
So good had to say it 4 times?
JABQ04 said:
So good had to say it 4 times?
Sorry, my computer updated and has been acting crazy
Hoping for good things. Shiloh is a neat battle that gets overlooked by casual observers because it's not the Eastern Theater and Army of the Potomac. If we're actually digging into that we're going the right way.
It's critical to remember that during a time the Confederacy is winning battles in the east and getting big headlines in New York and Washington, Grant is winning in the West. He seems to be the only Union general who is aggressively pursuing the war, and he's really causing catastrophic damage in Tennessee and Mississippi while cutting off Texas and Arkansas as well.
Hope we also see some items about his working with Foote and Porter. His ability to work with the Navy in the campaigns for Fort Donelson/Henry and Vicksburg is also noteworthy.
It's critical to remember that during a time the Confederacy is winning battles in the east and getting big headlines in New York and Washington, Grant is winning in the West. He seems to be the only Union general who is aggressively pursuing the war, and he's really causing catastrophic damage in Tennessee and Mississippi while cutting off Texas and Arkansas as well.
Hope we also see some items about his working with Foote and Porter. His ability to work with the Navy in the campaigns for Fort Donelson/Henry and Vicksburg is also noteworthy.
Amen. I used to over look the war in the West but that's where the war was won.
Was actually at Shiloh May 26th last year- that's a year ago tomorrow.
Geeked out when they showed the church. Nice they had a couple shots of the battlefield, even if the combat scenes were done somewhere else.
Happy with this so far.
Geeked out when they showed the church. Nice they had a couple shots of the battlefield, even if the combat scenes were done somewhere else.
Happy with this so far.
The East was really a huge stalemate. Taking control of the Mississippi River and cutting the Confederacy was key. That then allowed Sherman to dissect the remaining eastern part in half again.JABQ04 said:
Amen. I used to over look the war in the West but that's where the war was won.
Also of note is the fact that Lee is going to hold onto the best and brightest officers in the Army of Northern Virginia. This helps him be brilliant in that theater, but there are significant shortcomings in the Western Confederate officers. Losing Albert Sidney Johnston at Shiloh was something they could not afford either.
Also of note is the fact that Lee is going to hold onto the best and brightest officers in the Army of Northern Virginia. This helps him be brilliant in that theater, but there are significant shortcomings in the Western Confederate officers. Losing Albert Sidney Johnston at Shiloh was something they could not afford either.
The Army of the Potomac wasn't exactly a hotbed of leadership to begin with which also aided the "cause". It didn't take long for Lincoln to pull Grant and Sherman to the East.tallgrant said:
Also of note is the fact that Lee is going to hold onto the best and brightest officers in the Army of Northern Virginia. This helps him be brilliant in that theater, but there are significant shortcomings in the Western Confederate officers. Losing Albert Sidney Johnston at Shiloh was something they could not afford either.
Sherman didn't get pulled East. He stuck with the Western Armies, and they're the ones who did the Atlanta campaign.
But yeah, the Army of the Potomac was frequently weak on leadership. Meade and Hancock were good Corp commanders, and you can probably put Reynolds and Sedgwick in there as solid before they're killed. But there were some real incompetents like Dan Sickles, Howard, Pope, And McClellan. And they had some godawful cavalry commanders too. Plus you have the ones like Burnside and Hooker that failed when they promoted too high.
But yeah, the Army of the Potomac was frequently weak on leadership. Meade and Hancock were good Corp commanders, and you can probably put Reynolds and Sedgwick in there as solid before they're killed. But there were some real incompetents like Dan Sickles, Howard, Pope, And McClellan. And they had some godawful cavalry commanders too. Plus you have the ones like Burnside and Hooker that failed when they promoted too high.
I think you're thinking of Sheridan, not Sherman. Lincoln made Grant commanding general, and Grant brought Sheridan to the east with him.Rabid Cougar said:The Army of the Potomac wasn't exactly a hotbed of leadership to begin with which also aided the "cause". It didn't take long for Lincoln to pull Grant and Sherman to the East.tallgrant said:
Also of note is the fact that Lee is going to hold onto the best and brightest officers in the Army of Northern Virginia. This helps him be brilliant in that theater, but there are significant shortcomings in the Western Confederate officers. Losing Albert Sidney Johnston at Shiloh was something they could not afford either.
Sherman actually started the war in the east. He commanded a regiment (or maybe a brigade, I forget) at First Manassass, and did pretty well. Got sent west and promoted, given increased responsibility, had a nervous breakdown and had to take a time out. IIRC, he was brought back by Grant.
And the West had it's share of less than stellar commanders, as well - Fremont, Buell, and Banks chief among them. Butler was great at administering captured territory, but lousy as a field commander. Halleck was an outstanding staff officer and chief of staff, but again, not a good field commander. It is a vastly underrated credit to him that he was able to check his ego and do excellent work when his former subordinate, Grant, was made commanding general over him.
I watched the first two parts. I thought they were pretty good.
Halleck was happiest when shuffling papers and letting other's make decisions, transitioning to Grant required no real ego checking for him.
The other factor that hindered the Federals in the east and helped them in the west was geography, In the east the Shenandoah Valley was a route of invasion into the heart of the Union but for the Federals it led away from critical Confederate infrastructure. The rivers in the east also ran across the path of Federal armies trying to take Richmond and were thus an obstacle. In the west, the rivers stabbed into the heart of the Confederacy and allowed the Federals to move rapidly and deeply into the south.
The other factor that hindered the Federals in the east and helped them in the west was geography, In the east the Shenandoah Valley was a route of invasion into the heart of the Union but for the Federals it led away from critical Confederate infrastructure. The rivers in the east also ran across the path of Federal armies trying to take Richmond and were thus an obstacle. In the west, the rivers stabbed into the heart of the Confederacy and allowed the Federals to move rapidly and deeply into the south.
Excellent discussion on here. I'm learning a lot.
If you had to read one book on Grant, what would it be? I don't have the patience any more for 500 pages.
If you had to read one book on Grant, what would it be? I don't have the patience any more for 500 pages.
Then Chernow's 900 page book will be too much.
I really enjoyed Bruce Catton's Grant Moves South And Grant Takes Command. Those are each about 500 pages though, and a bit more military focused. The first covers from the start of the War through Vicksburg, and second covers Chattanooga, the Overland Campaign And Appomattox.
I really enjoyed Bruce Catton's Grant Moves South And Grant Takes Command. Those are each about 500 pages though, and a bit more military focused. The first covers from the start of the War through Vicksburg, and second covers Chattanooga, the Overland Campaign And Appomattox.
Thank you. I do enjoy Catton's work.
Read his memoirs they tell you what he thought and he was a good writer (rumors that Mark Twain ghost wrote them)
I like Tallgrant's suggestion too but he left out the first volume of Captain Sam Grant by Lloyd Lewis. Catton just finished the biography that only goes through the Civil War (like his memoirs) and reading all three volumes puts you in the over 900 pages category.
For a single volume biography that covers his entire life try William McFeely's Grant.
For a short quick biography Joan Waugh is considered the living Grant expert in academia and she did his biography for the short Presidential Biography series that ended a couple of years ago (short bios of all the presidents).
Have to admit I haven't read Chernow yet but I have heard great things about it and intend to get it for my pile of books to read.
I like Tallgrant's suggestion too but he left out the first volume of Captain Sam Grant by Lloyd Lewis. Catton just finished the biography that only goes through the Civil War (like his memoirs) and reading all three volumes puts you in the over 900 pages category.
For a single volume biography that covers his entire life try William McFeely's Grant.
For a short quick biography Joan Waugh is considered the living Grant expert in academia and she did his biography for the short Presidential Biography series that ended a couple of years ago (short bios of all the presidents).
Have to admit I haven't read Chernow yet but I have heard great things about it and intend to get it for my pile of books to read.
I think I have to agree with BQ78. I've read Chernow's biography and he does a great job.
And to imitiate, Captain Sam Grant is in my reading pile. I have read most everything Catton I could find, but I didn't realize there was one other volume in this set until last year when I was starting Chernow's book. Didn't want to recommend until I read it.
And to imitiate, Captain Sam Grant is in my reading pile. I have read most everything Catton I could find, but I didn't realize there was one other volume in this set until last year when I was starting Chernow's book. Didn't want to recommend until I read it.
I have browsed through them and they are remarkably well done.
I know that you probably don't believe that Twain wrote the Memoirs, but I taught English for 37 years and taught how to analyze style, and it is clear that Grant's style is not similar to Twain's at all. And I understand that a large portion of the MS survives in Grant's hand.
Anyway, I will go back and look through the Memoirs again. Good advice.
I know that you probably don't believe that Twain wrote the Memoirs, but I taught English for 37 years and taught how to analyze style, and it is clear that Grant's style is not similar to Twain's at all. And I understand that a large portion of the MS survives in Grant's hand.
Anyway, I will go back and look through the Memoirs again. Good advice.
Don't forget that the Blue Ridge created a western boundary for the theater, limiting the opportunity for the Union army to try any flanking maneuvers in that direction.BQ78 said:
Halleck was happiest when shuffling papers and letting other's make decisions, transitioning to Grant required no real ego checking for him.
The other factor that hindered the Federals in the east and helped them in the west was geography, In the east the Shenandoah Valley was a route of invasion into the heart of the Union but for the Federals it led away from critical Confederate infrastructure. The rivers in the east also ran across the path of Federal armies trying to take Richmond and were thus an obstacle. In the west, the rivers stabbed into the heart of the Confederacy and allowed the Federals to move rapidly and deeply into the south.
The Union armies could have used a combination of the Potomac and one of the east-west rivers (the York, James, and/or Appomatox) as avenues for flanking maneuvers. They tried it twice, and were stymied both times mostly due to lack of aggressiveness on the part of the respective commanders on the scene (McClellan on the Peninsula in 1862, Butler at Bermuda Hundred in 1864.) That said, I lived in Newport News for 3 years, and tidewater Virginia is generally miserable terrain for trying to maneuver large bodies of troops - low, swampy, lots of creeks and small rivers that get in the way. (I regularly took my kids to play at a playground right across the water from where MacGruder set up his Warwick River line. You can still see some of the earthworks.)
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