Attack on Pearl Harbor 1941.

1,671 Views | 9 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Ordinary Man
SBISA Victim
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AG
This man explains japans motivation for the attack in the first 90 seconds better than any history teacher I had.
Smeghead4761
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One thing he leaves out is that pre-WWII IJN strategy for defeating the US Pacific fleet centered on getting that fleet to make a 'through ticket' run across the Pacific to relieve the Philippines. The U.S. fleet would be attritted by air, submarine, and light surface forces operating out of the Japanese held islands in the central Pacific as they crossed, and would arrived in Philippine waters weakened and in need of refit after the long voyage.

The IJN would then crush the US fleet in a decisive battle, enabling a peace settlement on terms favorable to Japan.

Attacking Pearl Harbor threw out this entire strategy (really, Japan's only hope for a favorable outcome in a war with the US) out at a single stroke. It forced the U.S. into the kind of long, grinding war that Japan couldn't hope to win.

See The Attack on Pearl Harbor by Adam Zimm. Zimm also goes into detail on how the attack was much less devastating that it easily could have been due to lack of flexibility and poor execution by the Japanese.
cbr
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AG
Good video.

Fdr's admin took many more active steps to force japan into war the more I read. We basically forced the choice on japan to give up all external ambition completely, and subjugate themselves entirely to American and British control over their trade, or go to war. They were not politically able to choose the first.
dcbowers
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AG
Shattered Sword, by Parshall and Tully, does a nice job of reviewing the Japanese military culture that lead to Pearl Harbor.
dcbowers
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BQ_90
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AG
The major flaw in the attack plan was not having the ability to switch attack plan once they saw the carriers were not in port. The focus then should have been on dry docks, fuel storage, then capital ships. Or maybe sending in third wave to focus on those things. Even with carrier strike at Pearl the Japs still didn't realize that Battleships where archaic and outdated.
YZ250
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Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because we were in the Philippines. They thought that if they only attacked the Philippines then we would send the Pacific Fleet to relieve forces there. But by attacking Pearl Harbor that would prevent us from relieving the Philippines.

Here is my what-if scenario that probably belongs on that thread. What if we had granted the Philippines independence and withdrew our military? The Japanese would still have attacked the Philippines and Singapore as part of their Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. Since we would not have had a presence in Asia then I believe the Japanese would not have attacked Pearl Harbor. As long as they don't attack Australia I don't believe we get involved and Japan dominates Asia.
cbr
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AG
In hindsight they should have brought the rest of their carriers, run at least 2 more waves, and maybe bring 100k troops and give invasion a try. And stuck around to try to find the us carriers.

It probably would have failed but they were betting everything on it anyway, whether they all really appreciated it or not.

It would at least have given them a chance.

I can't say I've ever understood the Japanese strategic moves, or their tactical ones for that matter. It's like they were complete morons as a nation despite having some intelligent people here and there.

Everyone on all sides that thought they were going to 'quickly crush their will to fight' was totally wrong in ww2.

Unless they were fighting Italy and France I guess. The rest of the world was filled with some pretty *******ed tough ass people.

Cinco Ranch Aggie
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AG
The best written explanation I've seen on the strategic aims of PH was that they hoped to force America to capitulate in the Pacific by wiping out our fleet. I believe this line of thought to be flawed since it disregarded how the attack would be perceived, and what the result of that would be. And it really didn't help their case in not getting the ambassadors to deliver their message prior to the attack, although that probably does nothing to prevent the utter ass-kicking they were about to receive.
FTACo88-FDT24dad
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AG
Seems like there might be a lot of western lense perspective on the thought process of the Japanese leading up to their attack on the USA. Shattered Sword reveals the internal politics of the Japanese Army vs the Japanese Navy as well as the role of the bushido cultural mindset that played a part in the decision to attack.

One can certainly be critical of some of the decisions but I think they have to be understood as coming from a system that had built a damn impressive navy and army but staffed it with a bunch of samurais who thought they could bend the modern 20th century world to their whims.
Ordinary Man
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I worked a couple of summers in a factory in 1973 & 1974. A man in his 50's was responsible for the exotic metals that where housed in an enclosed cage.

One day I stopped by to check out a brass bar that one of the machinist needed. We got to talking about things and he started talking about being at Pearl Harbor on the day it was attacked. He was down below deck on one of the ships getting ready for church when the attack began. He ran up on deck, manned a deck gun, and started shooting at the Jap planes.

I wish I could remember which ship he was on and whether his ship was hit, but I was young (just out of HS), and didn't think to ask the kind of questions I would ask today.

My dad was a fighter pilot in the Pacific during WWII, and I wish I had more interested when I was younger to ask him questions. He just didn't talk about it much.
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