Markers and disclaimer markers

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CanyonAg77
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11:03a, 8/30/22
AG
Thought the history buffs would find my post on Politics interesting.

It's the first time I ever saw an apology marker placed next to an official Texas Historical Marker. Here's the link to the full explanation:

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3311523

And if you just want to see the markers involved:



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Cen-Tex
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11:09a, 8/30/22
AG
Wonder if West Tx A&M got a blessing from the state to erect the marker?
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Mule_lx
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12:47p, 8/30/22
AG
My grandpa did not like LBJ. He gave me a copy of A Texan Looks at Lyndon. Interesting book.
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CanyonAg77
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In reply to Cen-Tex • 12:51p, 8/30/22
AG
Cen-Tex said:
Wonder if West Tx A&M got a blessing from the state to erect the marker?
Well, it's WT property. I would love to know who authorized and paid for the marker.
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BQ78
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In reply to CanyonAg77 • 1:08p, 8/30/22
AG
It reads like WTU put it up or it is an overreach by someone speaking for WTU.
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Sapper Redux
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1:38p, 8/30/22
Is this a problem?
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Rex Racer
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1:39p, 8/30/22
AG
Obviously, WTAMU had some protesters similar to our Sully protesters, and in order to placate them, they erected this marker next to the official historical marker.
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Rex Racer
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 1:41p, 8/30/22
AG
Sapper Redux said:
Is this a problem?
It's just silly. So for every single person in our country who has ever done anything that someone doesn't agree with, we must never honor them in any way, or at the very least, we must spell out for all to see every opinion they ever had that is disagreed with by the mob or everything they ever did that is disagreed with by the mob.

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CanyonAg77
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 1:46p, 8/30/22
AG
Sapper Redux said:
Is this a problem?
State funds spent to demean someone because of wokeness?

Yes.

This was not a marker put up to praise segregation. It was a specific marker to honor someone for a specific accomplishment. To have whiny crybabies wanting to have their latest cause celebrated, is offensive to anyone with an IQ above room temperature.

It's also a damned lie, as all four of the candidates for Texas Governor in 1956 were pro-segregation, and the eventual winner signed into law at least two bills to prolong segregation.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Rex Racer • 4:27p, 8/30/22
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Is this a problem?
It's just silly. So for every single person in our country who has ever done anything that someone doesn't agree with, we must never honor them in any way, or at the very least, we must spell out for all to see every opinion they ever had that is disagreed with by the mob or everything they ever did that is disagreed with by the mob.



It's interesting how you're portraying running a political campaign on the explicit basis of white supremacy as some kind of simple "disagreement."
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to CanyonAg77 • 4:30p, 8/30/22
CanyonAg77 said:
Sapper Redux said:
Is this a problem?
State funds spent to demean someone because of wokeness?

Yes.

This was not a marker put up to praise segregation. It was a specific marker to honor someone for a specific accomplishment. To have whiny crybabies wanting to have their latest cause celebrated, is offensive to anyone with an IQ above room temperature.

It's also a damned lie, as all four of the candidates for Texas Governor in 1956 were pro-segregation, and the eventual winner signed into law at least two bills to prolong segregation.


There's no lie in the plaque about his platform. I do agree the vast majority of white Texans in the 50s were racist as hell. He ran vowing to continue white supremacy in Texas. Is the original plaque (state funded) meant to instruct or just provide a hagiography? Because it clearly fails to instruct who he really was.
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Rex Racer
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 5:02p, 8/30/22
AG
Sapper Redux said:
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Is this a problem?
It's just silly. So for every single person in our country who has ever done anything that someone doesn't agree with, we must never honor them in any way, or at the very least, we must spell out for all to see every opinion they ever had that is disagreed with by the mob or everything they ever did that is disagreed with by the mob.



It's interesting how you're portraying running a political campaign on the explicit basis of white supremacy as some kind of simple "disagreement."
I knew someone would try to pull this out of their arse.

He was wrong, but have you never been wrong or done anything wrong? If so, you can never be lauded for doing anything good, so forget about it.

Every single person who has a marker or monument sinned at some point except Jesus Christ. So either tear down all of the markers and monuments, or put up another maker that spells out every bad thing they ever did. It's stupid.
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Rex Racer
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 5:07p, 8/30/22
AG
Sapper Redux said:
CanyonAg77 said:
Sapper Redux said:
Is this a problem?
State funds spent to demean someone because of wokeness?

Yes.

This was not a marker put up to praise segregation. It was a specific marker to honor someone for a specific accomplishment. To have whiny crybabies wanting to have their latest cause celebrated, is offensive to anyone with an IQ above room temperature.

It's also a damned lie, as all four of the candidates for Texas Governor in 1956 were pro-segregation, and the eventual winner signed into law at least two bills to prolong segregation.


There's no lie in the plaque about his platform. I do agree the vast majority of white Texans in the 50s were racist as hell. He ran vowing to continue white supremacy in Texas. Is the original plaque (state funded) meant to instruct or just provide a hagiography? Because it clearly fails to instruct who he really was.
It was to commemorate what he did for the Historical Commision, nothing more, nothing less.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Rex Racer • 6:09p, 8/30/22
Funny how the plaque goes way beyond that without going into his full history.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Rex Racer • 6:11p, 8/30/22
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Is this a problem?
It's just silly. So for every single person in our country who has ever done anything that someone doesn't agree with, we must never honor them in any way, or at the very least, we must spell out for all to see every opinion they ever had that is disagreed with by the mob or everything they ever did that is disagreed with by the mob.



It's interesting how you're portraying running a political campaign on the explicit basis of white supremacy as some kind of simple "disagreement."
I knew someone would try to pull this out of their arse.

He was wrong, but have you never been wrong or done anything wrong? If so, you can never be lauded for doing anything good, so forget about it.

Every single person who has a marker or monument sinned at some point except Jesus Christ. So either tear down all of the markers and monuments, or put up another maker that spells out every bad thing they ever did. It's stupid.


You realize you're conflating issues, right? There's a difference between a personal failing and promoting the disenfranchisement and mistreatment of millions of people.
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Bighunter43
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7:30p, 8/30/22
AG
The new plaque was totally unnecessary!! Regardless of his personal or political views, the man did an incredible amount of good in preserving the past for all of us to enjoy! When does all this "woke" nonsense come to an end? I mean, Sam Houston owned slaves...will there be some kind of marker placed at his grave or on campus to make people feel ok today?
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Bighunter43 • 8:01p, 8/30/22
Did he "preserve the past for all of us"? It's an open question given his beliefs. They would clearly influence what he thought worthy of preservation and worthy of telling. And yes, Sam Houston's slave ownership should be discussed when discussing his life and beliefs.
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Bucketrunner
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In reply to Bighunter43 • 8:01p, 8/30/22
Probably. Today's youth are very fragile
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Bighunter43
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In reply to Bucketrunner • 8:09p, 8/30/22
AG
Bucketrunner said:
Probably. Today's youth are very fragile


Apparently so are some adults!
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KingofHazor
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:00p, 8/30/22
Quote:
There's a difference between a personal failing and promoting the disenfranchisement and mistreatment of millions of people.
What possible moral or ethical basis are you using to attempt to distinguish between a personal failing and promoting the disenfranchisement and mistreatment of millions of people?

Are you suggesting that it is permissible to wrong thousands as long as one does not wrong millions?

And by the way, who are your heroes? For whom do you think we should be erecting plaques and monuments?
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pmart
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9:01p, 8/30/22
There are interesting parallels between this thread and one on Premium about Kellen Mond being released from the Vikings and some posters just want to condemn him for his Sully protest.
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Rex Racer
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:02p, 8/30/22
AG
Sapper Redux said:
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Is this a problem?
It's just silly. So for every single person in our country who has ever done anything that someone doesn't agree with, we must never honor them in any way, or at the very least, we must spell out for all to see every opinion they ever had that is disagreed with by the mob or everything they ever did that is disagreed with by the mob.



It's interesting how you're portraying running a political campaign on the explicit basis of white supremacy as some kind of simple "disagreement."
I knew someone would try to pull this out of their arse.

He was wrong, but have you never been wrong or done anything wrong? If so, you can never be lauded for doing anything good, so forget about it.

Every single person who has a marker or monument sinned at some point except Jesus Christ. So either tear down all of the markers and monuments, or put up another maker that spells out every bad thing they ever did. It's stupid.


You realize you're conflating issues, right? There's a difference between a personal failing and promoting the disenfranchisement and mistreatment of millions of people.

As a LOT of people did back then. You putting up a separate marker for every single one?
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CanyonAg77
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:02p, 8/30/22
AG
Sapper Redux said:
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Is this a problem?
It's just silly. So for every single person in our country who has ever done anything that someone doesn't agree with, we must never honor them in any way, or at the very least, we must spell out for all to see every opinion they ever had that is disagreed with by the mob or everything they ever did that is disagreed with by the mob.



It's interesting how you're portraying running a political campaign on the explicit basis of white supremacy as some kind of simple "disagreement."

Just curious, lots of black groups are calling for segregation.

Are they Black Supremacists?
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CanyonAg77
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In reply to pmart • 9:03p, 8/30/22
AG
pmart said:
There are interesting parallels between this thread and one on Premium about Kellen Mond being released from the Vikings and some posters just want to condemn him for his Sully protest.

If he had been a decent quarterback, people would have cut him more slack on Sully.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Rex Racer • 9:25p, 8/30/22
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Is this a problem?
It's just silly. So for every single person in our country who has ever done anything that someone doesn't agree with, we must never honor them in any way, or at the very least, we must spell out for all to see every opinion they ever had that is disagreed with by the mob or everything they ever did that is disagreed with by the mob.



It's interesting how you're portraying running a political campaign on the explicit basis of white supremacy as some kind of simple "disagreement."
I knew someone would try to pull this out of their arse.

He was wrong, but have you never been wrong or done anything wrong? If so, you can never be lauded for doing anything good, so forget about it.

Every single person who has a marker or monument sinned at some point except Jesus Christ. So either tear down all of the markers and monuments, or put up another maker that spells out every bad thing they ever did. It's stupid.


You realize you're conflating issues, right? There's a difference between a personal failing and promoting the disenfranchisement and mistreatment of millions of people.

As a LOT of people did back then. You putting up a separate marker for every single one?


I'm saying either make note of it or consider not honoring them if you can't properly contextualize them.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to CanyonAg77 • 9:27p, 8/30/22
CanyonAg77 said:
Sapper Redux said:
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Is this a problem?
It's just silly. So for every single person in our country who has ever done anything that someone doesn't agree with, we must never honor them in any way, or at the very least, we must spell out for all to see every opinion they ever had that is disagreed with by the mob or everything they ever did that is disagreed with by the mob.



It's interesting how you're portraying running a political campaign on the explicit basis of white supremacy as some kind of simple "disagreement."

Just curious, lots of black groups are calling for segregation.

Are they Black Supremacists?


Historically groups like the Black Panthers emerged precisely because they didn't believe they would be granted actual equality in a white-dominated society. It has nothing to do with them liking Jim Crow segregation or finding it ethical.
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CanyonAg77
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:28p, 8/30/22
AG
They did contextualize his life.

You want them to bash him.

BTW, the marker is 10 feet away from the Charles Goodnight statue, that says nothing about him killing the Nobel Savage.
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CanyonAg77
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:30p, 8/30/22
AG
Sapper Redux said:
CanyonAg77 said:
Sapper Redux said:
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Is this a problem?
It's just silly. So for every single person in our country who has ever done anything that someone doesn't agree with, we must never honor them in any way, or at the very least, we must spell out for all to see every opinion they ever had that is disagreed with by the mob or everything they ever did that is disagreed with by the mob.



It's interesting how you're portraying running a political campaign on the explicit basis of white supremacy as some kind of simple "disagreement."

Just curious, lots of black groups are calling for segregation.

Are they Black Supremacists?


Historically groups like the Black Panthers emerged precisely because they didn't believe they would be granted actual equality in a white-dominated society. It has nothing to do with them liking Jim Crow segregation or finding it ethical.

The question was about black segregationists of today. Are they black supremacists?
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to KingofHazor • 9:31p, 8/30/22
Jabin said:
Quote:
There's a difference between a personal failing and promoting the disenfranchisement and mistreatment of millions of people.
What possible moral or ethical basis are you using to attempt to distinguish between a personal failing and promoting the disenfranchisement and mistreatment of millions of people?

Are you suggesting that it is permissible to wrong thousands as long as one does not wrong millions?

And by the way, who are your heroes? For whom do you think we should be erecting plaques and monuments?


You can't see the difference between a personal fault that has a limited scope of impact and promoting an ideology that causes immense harm, to the point of death, to other people? Is that really that hard to pin down for you?

If we want to play a thought experiment, can we erect plaques commemorating Hitler for creating the autobahn without mentioning the other… unpleasantness? What's the line you're comfortable with?
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to CanyonAg77 • 9:32p, 8/30/22
CanyonAg77 said:
Sapper Redux said:
CanyonAg77 said:
Sapper Redux said:
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Is this a problem?
It's just silly. So for every single person in our country who has ever done anything that someone doesn't agree with, we must never honor them in any way, or at the very least, we must spell out for all to see every opinion they ever had that is disagreed with by the mob or everything they ever did that is disagreed with by the mob.



It's interesting how you're portraying running a political campaign on the explicit basis of white supremacy as some kind of simple "disagreement."

Just curious, lots of black groups are calling for segregation.

Are they Black Supremacists?


Historically groups like the Black Panthers emerged precisely because they didn't believe they would be granted actual equality in a white-dominated society. It has nothing to do with them liking Jim Crow segregation or finding it ethical.

The question was about black segregationists of today. Are they black supremacists?


Maybe. What's your point? Is the Texas Historical Commission planning to use taxpayer money to build a plaque for them? Are they planning to use the instruments of state power, including lethal violence, to enforce their will to deprive others of their rights?
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CanyonAg77
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:36p, 8/30/22
AG
Just thought it interesting that you jumped to the "white supremacist'" buzzword.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to CanyonAg77 • 9:37p, 8/30/22
CanyonAg77 said:
Just thought it interesting that you jumped to the "white supremacist'" buzzword.


Jim Crow was white supremacy. That was the rationale for it and for preserving it.
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KingofHazor
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:45p, 8/30/22
Sapper Redux said:
Jabin said:
Quote:
There's a difference between a personal failing and promoting the disenfranchisement and mistreatment of millions of people.
What possible moral or ethical basis are you using to attempt to distinguish between a personal failing and promoting the disenfranchisement and mistreatment of millions of people?

Are you suggesting that it is permissible to wrong thousands as long as one does not wrong millions?

And by the way, who are your heroes? For whom do you think we should be erecting plaques and monuments?


You can't see the difference between a personal fault that has a limited scope of impact and promoting an ideology that causes immense harm, to the point of death, to other people? Is that really that hard to pin down for you?

If we want to play a thought experiment, can we erect plaques commemorating Hitler for creating the autobahn without mentioning the other… unpleasantness? What's the line you're comfortable with?
Once again, you avoid answering the questions you don't like. Who do you think we should put a memorial markers for?
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Bighunter43
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 9:48p, 8/30/22
AG
Sapper Redux said:
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Rex Racer said:
Sapper Redux said:
Is this a problem?
It's just silly. So for every single person in our country who has ever done anything that someone doesn't agree with, we must never honor them in any way, or at the very least, we must spell out for all to see every opinion they ever had that is disagreed with by the mob or everything they ever did that is disagreed with by the mob.



It's interesting how you're portraying running a political campaign on the explicit basis of white supremacy as some kind of simple "disagreement."
I knew someone would try to pull this out of their arse.

He was wrong, but have you never been wrong or done anything wrong? If so, you can never be lauded for doing anything good, so forget about it.

Every single person who has a marker or monument sinned at some point except Jesus Christ. So either tear down all of the markers and monuments, or put up another maker that spells out every bad thing they ever did. It's stupid.


You realize you're conflating issues, right? There's a difference between a personal failing and promoting the disenfranchisement and mistreatment of millions of people.

As a LOT of people did back then. You putting up a separate marker for every single one?


I'm saying either make note of it or consider not honoring them if you can't properly contextualize them.


Can I ask a question Sapper? There are supposed FBI tapes of MLK having orgies, sex with prostitutes, and even watching and laughing while a fellow pastor raped a woman. That last one, if true, is just plain sick and appalling! "IF" that is true...do you think we should take his statues down and remove his holiday....or put up disclaimers about his actions for all to see how he really was? Publicly, Dr King did some amazing things, and those things deserve the highest accolades.....however, his private life somehow seems to leave little to be desired...does that overshadow the good, and does that warrant a disclaimer of his life's accomplishments? Your thoughts?
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KingofHazor
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In reply to Bighunter43 • 9:51p, 8/30/22
Oh, but if it's true, Dr. King only did it to something less than a million women so based on sappers standards, that's OK.
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