Suggestions for Research and Reading about a Relative that served in WWI

2,112 Views | 19 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by Chipotlemonger
Mr. Frodo
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AG
Wife's great uncle grew up in Austin.
Served in WWI and died on 9-26-18.
Buried in St Mihel American Cemetery.
He's listed as 168th infantry and 42 division.
The 168th is an Iowa national guard.
I'm thinking he should have been part of one the Texas guard 36th or 90th?
9-26-18 was the start date for the Muse-Argonne offensive. Thinking he was a part of that.
Would like to fill in some blanks… where he signed up, trained, route to France, campaigns and activity in France, etc. Also, any recs on the Muse-Argonne.

Joseph Jerome Smith (1896-1918)

Thanks for any help.
JABQ04
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You can try Fold3. It's a paid site similiar to ancestry.com but focused on military matters. There is a free trial period to see if you like it.

also if he was drafted his geographic location had no bearing. He was trained and used to fill in vacancies in units headed overseas. While not WWI, my grandfather was drafted in wwii from Galveston and ended up in an infantry regiment in 37th infantry division (hails from Ohio and other states in that region)
one safe place
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Mr. Frodo said:

Wife's great uncle grew up in Austin.
Served in WWI and died on 9-26-18.
Buried in St Mihel American Cemetery.
He's listed as 168th infantry and 42 division.
The 168th is an Iowa national guard.
I'm thinking he should have been part of one the Texas guard 36th or 90th?
9-26-18 was the start date for the Muse-Argonne offensive. Thinking he was a part of that.
Would like to fill in some blanks… where he signed up, trained, route to France, campaigns and activity in France, etc. Also, any recs on the Muse-Argonne.

Joseph Jerome Smith (1896-1918)

Thanks for any help.

The 42nd Division was known as the "Rainbow Division" and was comprised of men from 26 or 28 states, hence the name. I don't remember, but the 42nd might have been a depot division in which men were sent to other divisions as replacements. My paternal grandfather was in the 40th division, which was a depot division. He wound up fighting with the 32nd Division. Sure makes research difficult when they leave with one division and come home with another.

He wasn't there much more than a month and had gotten sent to the 32nd Division, 128th Regiment ("Les Terribles") and they fought in the Meuse-Argonne offensive. He was gassed in that fight.

If your wife's great uncle is buried in St. Mihiel cemetery, he might not have made it to the Meuse Argonne offensive. As I recall, most of those buried in St. Mihiel were dead from the battle of St. Mihiel. That battle ended in mid-September 1918. With his date of death being 09-26 and the Meuse Argonne offensive starting on that date, yet he was not buried in the Meuse-Argonne Cemetery, perhaps he was wounded in the St. Mihiel fight and died a week or so after? That is a possibility you might want to file away as you do your research.

Not sure if you and your wife have been to France or Belgium, but I highly recommend visiting some of these cemeteries. The one for the Meuse-Argonne is the largest in Europe as I recall, over 14,000 of our boys buried there.
JABQ04
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AG
You're relatives burial record (sorry for the crappy picture, computer was being a pain)





DWRIA = Died of wounds received in action

His name appears on the morning report for Sept. 25, 1918 but most of the document is illegible. However I can read other entries on other days saying men were wounded in action, killed on action, awol etc…. I can make out the names of men listed as KIA that day
one safe place
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Some information from Ancestry, though some of it appears to be assumed and possibly incorrect:

Residence
1900 Justice Precinct 7, Travis, Texas, USA
Marital Status: Single; Relation to Head of House: Son

Same in 1910

Military
Sep 1917 ft. worth, Tarrant County, Texas, USA
Texas and Oklahoma National Guard Troops consolidated at Camp Bowie for training under Major General St. John Greble until June of 2018. Greble at 59 was relieved of command before departure and replaced with Major General William R Smith.

Military
1917
Regular Army - Divisions (1-25) National Guard (Volunteers) - Divisions (26-75) National Army (Draftees) - Divisions 76+ Conclusion … Joseph was Texas National Guard volunteer.

Military
1917
42nd Division aka the Rainbow Division as it included units from many states. Also called "Depot Divisions" as they arrived together at the train station. This seems to be the most likely case. Suspect he was one of the Texas Guard divisions.

Military
6 Jul 1918 Hoboken, New Jersey
General Smith arrives in New Jersey to depart with the troops.

Departure
26 Jul 1918 Hoboken, New Jersey
Company "D" - 141st Infantry - 36th Division. This makes sense as a Texas Guard Division that trained at Camp Bowie in Ft. Worth. Must have transferred to 42nd after arrival in France.

Military
12 Sep 1918 Western Front
Start of the St Mihel Offensive. Battle lasted four days-- Sept 15th 1918. Joseph's death matches up with the start of the other large Muse offensive but he is interred here and his division fought in this battle ... so perhaps this was his end.

Death
26 Sep 1918 Thiaucourt, France
St Mihiel American Cemetery, Plot C Row 14 Grave 19, PFC US Army, 168th Infantry Regiment, 42nd Infantry Division, World War I Honor Roll. Most of people buried here died in or as a result of the St Mihel offensive.


The comments on the 141st Infantry and 36th Division appear to have been based on a name showing up on a troop roster of those departing aboard the Finland. On the typed roster, it shows a Joseph Smith, and the middle initial looks like a W or a J, it appears to have been a typeover. It shows his father was a Joseph A. Smith and his service number was 1484455. So, unless that is his father and service number, then the person pulling this together made a mistake.
JABQ04
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AG
Holy crap. I'm looking at the exact same thing right now. Seeing the Joseph Smith on board the Finland, same serial number, but marked for 36th Infantry. Very weird, still could be something that gets changed in France but crazy you're looking at the same thing. I'll go back and check A Company, 168th daily report for July and Aug and see if he shows up. The report i mentioned has Joseph J Smith, 1484455, being WIA in Sept 25th. Which is the number in the St Mihel Cemetary.
JABQ04
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Transferred from 36th Infantry to 42nd Infantry in August of 1918. Name is number 19 of this list.
JABQ04
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And last one for the night, he seems to have arrived at A company, 168th Infantry with a large batch of replacements on the 27th of August as the amount of Privates goes from 41 to 114 in a day
one safe place
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Great info and catches! It is amazing the amount of information that is out there.
Mr. Frodo
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Thank you! This guys story has always been compelling to me for some reason.

Grows up around Austin probably farming. Signs up for the Tx National Guard when he's 19 or 20. Trains in Ft Worth for a year… probably the first time out of Travis Co. Makes his way to NJ by train in July of '18 … probably the first time out the state. Same month he lands in France. Not even two months later he's dead… three months out of the state. 45 days after his death terms are reached and the war is over. 75 days after his death, knowing the war is over and a week before Christmas, the family learns of his death. Damn… it nearly gets dusty just thinking about it and writing this.

There are many similar stories. I read an interesting book about a family that grew up around big bend … gather my geese I think it's called … and this family's oldest and only son headed out about this same time and he never made it over … died from the flu. Glad Joseph made it to the front versus passing from the flu in NJ.

Anyways… thanks again. This helps greatly. Was this pulled from folds3?

The Ancestry stuff are my posts trying to timeline things for him. I pulled that info from a book I read called Texas and WWI … it filled in some background stuff that seemed to make sense… but didn't match up with the st mihel burial info I found. I'll see if I can find more info or a book on St Mihel offensive.
Mr. Frodo
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JABQ04 said:

You're relatives burial record (sorry for the crappy picture, computer was being a pain)





DWRIA = Died of wounds received in action

His name appears on the morning report for Sept. 25, 1918 but most of the document is illegible. However I can read other entries on other days saying men were wounded in action, killed on action, awol etc…. I can make out the names of men listed as KIA that day


So if his name appears on a morning report for Sept 25th 1918 ... assuming this is some sort of death/injured/wounded report ... so he's showing up as injured on 9/25.

The campaign started on 9/12 and lasted 4 or 5 days.

I would guess his injuries occurred on on one of those days and he survived till the 25th and passed on the 26th.

Several thousand men died over those 4-5 days.

In whatever you are looking at, is it possible to see his co/reg/div morning report on the 5-6 days after the start of the battle on 9/12 to see when he showed up injured?
JABQ04
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Yes, it looks like he's listed as being WIA on the 25th. I'll see if I can get it posted here tonight. I'm working nights this week and sometimes my work computer is blocked from some sites, but I'll see what I can do

The reports are basically just personnel accountability, how many wounded, killed, confined, on extra duties etc….
And yes, I found everything on fold 3.
one safe place
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Mr. Frodo said:

Thank you! This guys story has always been compelling to me for some reason.

Grows up around Austin probably farming. Signs up for the Tx National Guard when he's 19 or 20. Trains in Ft Worth for a year… probably the first time out of Travis Co. Makes his way to NJ by train in July of '18 … probably the first time out the state. Same month he lands in France. Not even two months later he's dead… three months out of the state. 45 days after his death terms are reached and the war is over. 75 days after his death, knowing the war is over and a week before Christmas, the family learns of his death. Damn… it nearly gets dusty just thinking about it and writing this.


There is a book called "Last of the Doughboys" and it was written by a guy who traveled around interviewing the final three or four dozen Doughboys. One thing from the book was that most of these young men had never before left the United States, many of them never had left their home state, and more than a few of them had never left the area where they were born and grew up.

I went on a tour in 2018 for the 100th anniversary of the end of the Great War. I had dived into my father's service in World War II, but very little into his father's service in World War I. There were 38 of us, grandsons, granddaughters, great nieces and great nephews, and one girl who was a daughter of one of the soldiers (she was quite old, and he was quite old when she was born). At one of the American Cemeteries, one of the superintendents pointed out the headstone of a young man who had only been in the country for a day or two when he was killed. And some of the guys who had immigrated to the United States, from places in Europe, then a few years later returned to fight and die.

One of them pointed out one of the last casualties of the war. Since our involvement in the war was of such short duration, so many were like your relative, hardly got there and killed in action.

I highly suggest that you and your wife tour where he fought and died, and the cemetery where he rests. We visited 5 or 6 American cemeteries, passed by many French and German ones, some had two men to the grave. History is an amazing thing, but to stand where someone you are kin to actually fought, or fought and died, well it changes you. It is your history. As we traveled around for 11 or 12 days, I wondered if our ancestors looked down on us and wondered what all our fuss was about, why we had traveled 10,000 miles round trip to be where they had been. Though I suspect they were at least a little pleased we had shown the interest.

The cemeteries are immaculate, pristine, and well-kept. The monuments are massive and all around the country. Say what you want about the French, but so many things I witnessed and experienced, were impressive. One superintendent of the smallest cemetery said that French families adopted the graves of the men buried there. It wasn't a hollow gesture, they were required to visit and do something (i forget what duties) two to four times a year (again, I forget the frequency). All for boys they never knew, from another country, who died on their soil, now over a hundred years ago. He said there was an extensive waiting list to adopt a grave.

Another superintendent said he received a call from a local school's headmaster wanting to know if he and some of his students could borrow the chapel in the cemetery. He said perhaps, but it depends on what for. (I think this was the one for the Meuse-Argonne, with around 14,000 buried there). The headmaster said that his students wanted to recite aloud the names of all those buried there, as a tribute to their sacrifice. He said that doing so would be their way of bringing them back, if only for a moment.

This sort of stuff happened time and time again. So go! You might want to check with Valor Tours, the gal that runs it is named Vicky (used to be her dad's company). She is beyond lovely. I have been to Tarawa twice with them and France/Belgium once. Not a single hitch. Here is a brief thing on the upcoming tour:

WWI TOUR - September 10 TO 19, 2023. With Mike Grams. From Paris to Meaux, Belleau Wood, Chateau Theirry, Douamont, Verdun, Reims, Bellicourt, Albert, Compeigne, ending at Paris. $4200 per person, twin share.

You can look at the full itinerary on their website. Mike spent a day with us on our tour as he was taking over from Mike Hanlon. Very knowledgeable. Not sure if the tour will visit your areas of interest. Mike has lived in both Verdun and St. Mihiel. Also, if the tour gets anywhere near Belgium, Ypers to be exact, be sure to go see the Call to the Last Post ceremony at the Menin Gate. They have a ceremony every evening at 8pm and have since 1928 (other than the years of Nazi occupation). They honor the around 54,000 men whose names are inscribed at the gate and around 35,000 at another site who were killed and never found or identified, never given a proper burial.

Good luck in your search!
JABQ04
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My wife and I are planning on being in France in 2026 for our 20th anniversary. I'm going to coincide that with the 110th of the Somme and visit on July 1. The Menin Gate is definitely on my list as well. So much to see so have to just hit a couple of high points. I've developed a huge fascination with WWI over the past few years and even do a WWI living history impression.
JABQ04
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Mr. Frodo
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JABQ04 said:




Saw this and now have a folds account.

What do you think that bit out to the right says?
JABQ04
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AG
I think it says wounded in action. Definitely looks like wounded, before the writing is no longer legible. Even if he wasn't on the line, rear areas were still subject to shelling and gas attacks. I wish there was a "yearbook" like
Other units did, and there very well may be, but just not on Fold3. It's a fascinating site. One British unit I study, 1st Battalion The Black Watch, has their entire war diary uploaded. Interesting stuff. My favorite thing is just the minutiae of daily life. Orders for heard back I got he line, operations orders for raid and attacks etc…. I like one of the orders for a trench raid in 1917 days that prior to stepping off, give out a rum ration and then "anyone who makes it back" gets a second rum ration.

Without tying up this thread if you want to email at username at gmail if you have any questions about Fold3 or if anything else comes up I don't mind. Slow nights at work so this is a great way to spend time.
one safe place
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JABQ04 said:

My wife and I are planning on being in France in 2026 for our 20th anniversary. I'm going to coincide that with the 110th of the Somme and visit on July 1. The Menin Gate is definitely on my list as well. So much to see so have to just hit a couple of high points. I've developed a huge fascination with WWI over the past few years and even do a WWI living history impression.
You will enjoy it. Everything is fairly close together (Somme battlefield, Menin Gate) and while in Ypers you might want to visit the In Flanders Field Museum.

We were in Ypers on August 15th which is some huge military day for England. Had Tommies walking all over town. We were not supposed to get in to see the In Flanders Field Museum as it was sort of set aside on that day for the Tommies. We arrived late in the day and our tour guide remembered he was a member of some association that might raise an eyebrow and let us gain access, and we had a cat herder gal (made sure everyone was back on the bus after each stop) who was Finnish and quite pretty and he with his membership card and she with her charm both went in and got us access, lol. The people of the museum were very nice after a long day of the Brits.
one safe place
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JABQ04 said:

My favorite thing is just the minutiae of daily life.
One guy I met on our tour had a grandfather who fought in the 32nd Division like my grandfather did. He kept a very detailed dairy and this guy I met transcribed it. I was sort of surprised by the time "off" they had (rotating out of the front line, to the secondary and reserve trenches). Pulled back from the fighting and going to towns, YMCA dances and entertainment, etc., while the war raged on. His grandfather had code words/phrases when talking about the women, American Red Cross nurses or Frenchies, who crossed paths with him. Reading his day to day stuff was very interesting.
Chipotlemonger
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JABQ04 said:

My wife and I are planning on being in France in 2026 for our 20th anniversary. I'm going to coincide that with the 110th of the Somme and visit on July 1. The Menin Gate is definitely on my list as well. So much to see so have to just hit a couple of high points. I've developed a huge fascination with WWI over the past few years and even do a WWI living history impression.


Enjoy the trip!

I, too, have become more interested over the past few years with WWI. Watched a docuseries on YouTube a while back. This week I started The Guns of August. I'm not far in, but can tell it's going to be a great book.
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