Was the Alamo insignificant?

2,309 Views | 9 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by aalan94
Rongagin71
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AG
It was a small battle by modern standards but so very much land was at stake...still at least one historian at that university in Austin is in trouble because of saying it was insignificant. Oh, and slavery something, something.

https://texasscorecard.com/austin/university-of-texas-refuses-to-remove-chief-historian-despite-texas-senators-criticism/
Sapper Redux
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It's amazing to me how fragile people are about their myths. The perception of the Alamo and its role in Texan independence is a myth (academically defined use of the word, not the common use as synonymous with false). And it's quite a useful myth. The myth itself is a huge topic in the field of the history of memory. But the centrality of that myth in the Texan psyche doesn't mean it or the actual battle at the Alamo and the aftermath are immune from analysis.
TxTarpon
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No, it bought Sam Houston time.
$3 Sack of Groceries
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AG
Is it a myth that all of those men chose to stay and fight against a far superior force knowing that they'd never leave alive?

Is it a myth that the brutality of Santa Ana at the Alamo was the impetus for many colonists (Texians/Tejanos) to join the Army and assist in securing a successful revolt?


Yes, the battle has gained mythological status but it doesn't detract from the bravery and resoluteness of the men who gave their lives defending it.
I'll never understand why you and your ilk derive so much pleasure in minimizing, discounting, and just generally maligning these feats in our history.
Sapper Redux
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$240 Worth of Pudding said:

Is it a myth that all of those men chose to stay and fight against a far superior force knowing that they'd never leave alive?

Is it a myth that the brutality of Santa Ana at the Alamo was the impetus for many colonists (Texians/Tejanos) to join the Army and assist in securing a successful revolt?


Yes, the battle has gained mythological status but it doesn't detract from the bravery and resoluteness of the men who gave their lives defending it.
I'll never understand why you and your ilk derive so much pleasure in minimizing, discounting, and just generally maligning these feats in our history.


Nothing that you just said should be above further investigation and analysis. Even if you don't like the conclusions reached. You're ascribing emotions I don't have towards these things. I'm much more interested in separating an event from the interpretation of the event in order to better understand both and how they both influence the society we have.
Rongagin71
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AG
You might want to study the difference between your "is a myth" and the much more accurate "gained mythological status" comments.
$3 Sack of Groceries
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AG
Sapper Redux said:

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

Is it a myth that all of those men chose to stay and fight against a far superior force knowing that they'd never leave alive?

Is it a myth that the brutality of Santa Ana at the Alamo was the impetus for many colonists (Texians/Tejanos) to join the Army and assist in securing a successful revolt?


Yes, the battle has gained mythological status but it doesn't detract from the bravery and resoluteness of the men who gave their lives defending it.
I'll never understand why you and your ilk derive so much pleasure in minimizing, discounting, and just generally maligning these feats in our history.


Nothing that you just said should be above further investigation and analysis. Even if you don't like the conclusions reached. You're ascribing emotions I don't have towards these things. I'm much more interested in separating an event from the interpretation of the event in order to better understand both and how they both influence the society we have.

A) So in your "analysis", what is false about anything I wrote?
B) Ascribing feelings to historical events is an inherent part of why they become historical events to begin with, no? We don't usually remember things that don't rise to the level of making us feel something.
C) Your political leanings are no secret to most on this site going way back to your politics board days. The notion that you'd attempt to cast doubt on one of the most significant historical/cultural events in the chronicles of Texas and indeed, the United States, surprises no one. Your "interpretation" of such events is usually to sully or otherwise taint them with a "progressive" reimagining couched as some sort of scholarly endeavor.
Sapper Redux
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Rongagin71 said:

You might want to study the difference between your "is a myth" and the much more accurate "gained mythological status" comments.


It seems like you're using the word myth in a different way than I am. I'm using myth to mean a foundational narrative that is imbued with a particular meaning and importance. It says nothing about the accuracy or inaccuracy of the narrative.
Sapper Redux
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$240 Worth of Pudding said:

Sapper Redux said:

$240 Worth of Pudding said:

Is it a myth that all of those men chose to stay and fight against a far superior force knowing that they'd never leave alive?

Is it a myth that the brutality of Santa Ana at the Alamo was the impetus for many colonists (Texians/Tejanos) to join the Army and assist in securing a successful revolt?


Yes, the battle has gained mythological status but it doesn't detract from the bravery and resoluteness of the men who gave their lives defending it.
I'll never understand why you and your ilk derive so much pleasure in minimizing, discounting, and just generally maligning these feats in our history.


Nothing that you just said should be above further investigation and analysis. Even if you don't like the conclusions reached. You're ascribing emotions I don't have towards these things. I'm much more interested in separating an event from the interpretation of the event in order to better understand both and how they both influence the society we have.

A) So in your "analysis", what is false about anything I wrote?
B) Ascribing feelings to historical events is an inherent part of why they become historical events to begin with, no? We don't usually remember things that don't rise to the level of making us feel something.
C) Your political leanings are no secret to most on this site going way back to your politics board days. The notion that you'd attempt to cast doubt on one of the most significant historical/cultural events in the chronicles of Texas and indeed, the United States, surprises no one. Your "interpretation" of such events is usually to sully or otherwise taint them with a "progressive" reimagining couched as some sort of scholarly endeavor.


I'm using myth in the academic sense, which I laid out in my first post, and you jump to the popular usage of myth as "fabrication." The reality of individual motivations and expectations is much more complicated than the simple, emotionally-charged narrative we construct.

The fact that an event becomes emotionally-charged in some way influenced how it is perceived in history. And that's an extremely important aspect of analysis in the history of memory and in historical analysis in general. For example, the emotional claims that evolved after the Civil War influenced the way the war was interpreted, and the fact that certain perspectives were given greater weight because they were more relatable to many audiences had a profound impact on American history. The emotions don't validate the narrative, however, and are always open to analysis and challenge.

And of course you try to turn this into an ad hominem because you don't like me. Fine.
aalan94
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AG
There is certainly myth involved, but the Alamo isn't irrelevant. It basically forced the conflict to be elevated to revolutionary status and set that defining point at which Texas was irrevocably committed to revolution at a place hundreds of miles from settlement.

If the stand had not been made at the Alamo, the Mexican Army would have penetrated to the Gonzales/San Felipe area before the first major confrontation of Santa Anna's invasion took place. A reverse there does not give the Texians any fallback opportunities. Given the Texians' unpreparedness, lack of seriousness about the invasion, etc. they would have been defeated. Without a significant seige there, the Texian convention can't even meet to have a declaration of independence. They'd all be Runaway Scraping their asses out of town. Mexico would have achieved its goal, which was to ethnically cleanse Texas.

There are actually lots of other "myths" out there of the kind Sapper talks about, and many of them are far more mythological in terms of being overblown. The Battle of Britain is a good example. You can't starve an island to submission by air. You have to do it by water. Even if the Luftwaffe had driven the RAF from the sky, they're not going to take England with fallschirmjaeger alone. They need control of the SEA, which they did not get, and the real Battle of Britain was at sea. No one makes that case, though it's a reasonable argument about 10,000 times more accurate than the Alamo being "insignificant."
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