Religion and Secession

3,175 Views | 17 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by TRD-Ferguson
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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I was recently reading an article about secession and the author talked about how the Methodists, Presbyterians, and Baptists split between North and South during the Antebellum period and that got me curious. What role did religion play in the growing divide or was it just a reflection of the growing division?

This was the time period of the Second Great Awakening and I imagine the New England abolitionists, like Lyman Beecher, were the biggest issue for many Southerners. It's also my understanding that the southern pulpits preached the "positive good" view towards slavery as well but I'm fairly ignorant on the topic.

Does anyone have a book recommendation on this topic?

TIA
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BQ78
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AG
More a reflection of the times. Nevins' Ordeal of the Union has a few chapters in the 8 volumes that cover it very well. Applegate's The Most Famous Man in America is a terrific read and covers the topic through the life of Henry Ward Beecher (Lyman's son and Harriet Beecher's brother). Really good biography of a very interesting and conflicted person with a huge scandal (think tele-evangislist stereotype).

More pointed in what you may be looking for, Noll's The Civil War as a Theological Crisis .
KingofHazor
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Quote:

What role did religion play in the growing divide or was it just a reflection of the growing division?
My understanding is that religion was the main factor, perhaps the exclusive factor, in the divide. The abolitionist movement did not start in the US, but its origins were in England, primarily with the Methodists. Abolition's roots were entirely based on religion; without religion it would never have occurred and certainly would not have persevered and won in the face of the almost impossible obstacles facing it.

Have you read much about Wilber Wilberforce? If not, I'd start there because without understanding the roots of the abolition movement in England one really can't fully understand it in the US.

This is of some interest to me because my dad, a southerner whose family owned slaves, married my mom whose family had been prominent Quaker and Methodist abolitionists in Ohio. I have the autobiography of my mom's gg-something-grandfather which describes both his deep faith and his commitment to the freedom of slaves.

On the other hand, religion in the South did not create slavery. Rather, it seems that the rhetoric from the southern pulpits changed and increased in intensity in support of slavery in reaction and opposition to the growing abolitionist movement in the North. Also, the rhetoric regarding slavery across all facets of Southern slavery, not just religion, changed dramatically once the cotton gin changed the economics of slavery.
FTACo88-FDT24dad
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AG
Two groups of people reading the same words from the same book but coming up with very different conclusions about slavery.
aTmrnl
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AG
The Cousins' Wars by Kevin Phillips

The premise is that the English Civil War, the American Revolution, and the American Civil War had a connection between them all. It talks about religion and politics fairly extensively in the section of the American Civil War.

That's the only one off the top of my head that may help.

It's a pretty fascinating read.
FTACo88-FDT24dad
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AG
Albion's Seed is not directly on point for this question but it is VERY relevant in a general sense. It helps understand the different religious traditions that were prevalent in various parts of the US and it thereby helps shed light on the cultural differences that helped fan the flames of secession. Religious tendencies definitely had a not insignificant influence on the etiology and conduct of the US Civil War.

The Scot-Irish descendants that made up a large portion of the leadership on both sides and were the single biggest group actually fighting on both sides hd a very Presbyterian tendency and were basically of the "Don't Tread on Me" mindset that once violated had no problem with going straight to guns to settle a dispute. It was a historically Christianized warrior culture that once triggered would not hesitate to strike.

Or at least that's my take …

And I don't think it's a novel idea to connect the English Civil War with the US Civil War. The legacy of the warring factions from one can definitely be traced to the other. There's a reason the U Va mascot is a cavalier and not a round head.
TRD-Ferguson
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My family is from a small town in southern Mississippi. There's an old Methodist Church that my great grandmother and her family attended. China Grove Methodist Church.

The church had a slave gallery on the second floor. Complete with pews and shackles. I've often wondered how the pastors who pastored that church over the years reconciled the words of Jesus while preaching to shackled men, women and children in that upper section.
KingofHazor
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That's really amazing. I've never heard of a church in the south like that before. I'm surprised that the whites even let the blacks worship in the same building with them.
aalan94
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AG
Quote:

My understanding is that religion was the main factor, perhaps the exclusive factor, in the divide.
Well, it was huge, but not the main factor. Climate was the main factor in abolition, because climate was the main factor in slavery. If your climate supported crops that could be effectively harvested only with slave labor, you were for slavery, and if it didn't, you were at least open to the ideas of emancipation. Religion then picked up some of the latter with an emancipation message that they embraced because they had the luxury of not having slaves of their own to have to liberate. Outside of domestic servants, and that's a small number, so freeing them is no huge hurdle.

The North was not particularly more moral or noble. Slavery just didn't work there. It worked in the South because, as noted, you had a staple of crops that needed intensive labor. Now, let's add the humble mosquito, which did more to enslave people than almost anything. You see, when Virginia first started to try to grow crops in its tidewater areas, they used poor whites and Irish. But they died. Massive numbers of them. The reason? Malaria. They tried Indians. They didn't fare much better. But African Americans had genetic protection against Malaria. Few of them died.

As for religion, for many, it basically was a framework for establishing moral superiority for a viewpoint that you already had anyway.

But the bottom line is, if slavery had been the only way to economically harvest cod from the ocean, then the people of Maine would have been the most staunch advocates of slavery.
KingofHazor
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You make good points but ignore the fact that there was no emancipation movement of any significance in either Great Britain or North America until the Wesleyans and Quakers started pushing it. And slavery was not uncommon up north in various capacities until the religious movement against it.

Your argument, relying upon economics, explains more why religion did not result in emancipation in the south.
BonfireNerd04
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aalan94 said:

The North was not particularly more moral or noble. Slavery just didn't work there. It worked in the South because, as noted, you had a staple of crops that needed intensive labor.


This needs to be said, because so much modern historiography of the Civil War is simplified to South = evil racist traitors and North = the virtuous heroes.
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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BonfireNerd04 said:

aalan94 said:

The North was not particularly more moral or noble. Slavery just didn't work there. It worked in the South because, as noted, you had a staple of crops that needed intensive labor.


This needs to be said, because so much modern historiography of the Civil War is simplified to South = evil racist traitors and North = the virtuous heroes.
I've not seen a lot of the "virtuous heroes" narrative for quite some time now. Maybe older generations still believe that but there are quite a few historians/writers who are exposing the sins of the north as well.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
Aggie_Journalist
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AG
Religions evolve and change to match the times. As slavery spread in the south and not in the north (for reasons Aalan94 laid out), the southern branches of churches began interpreting the Bible in ways to support slavery while in the north some began reading an anti slavery message in it. The reason for this is that people join congregations that align to their viewpoints.

You see this type of behavior today, too. Adults join congregations that align with their beliefs on gay marriage or abortion, for example.

This can also have a cross generational radicalizing effect. An adult knows they joined a congregation because it believes what they believe. Cool. But their child grows up thinking this belief is the word of god. This could help explain why, over a number of generations, the north and south became more firmly committed to their viewpoints on slavery. To their great grandparents, this was just a disagreement over whether to own slaves, and those grandparents joined churches that made them feel better by agreeing with them on slavery. A couple generations later, owning or freeing slaves is a religious crusade.
Thanks and gig'em
KingofHazor
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Good hypothesis, but it's my understanding that that's not the way it worked. Anti-slavery sentiment did not grow gradually, but rather exploded across Great Britain and America in parallel with the explosive growth of Wesleyanism/Methodism. Many if not most of the leaders of the abolitionist movement were Wesleyan.

And Aalan's point is partially correct, but not entirely. Slavery did exist in the North until the abolitionist movement, driven by the underlying religious movement, forced it out. And slavery, of Africans or others, is not dependent on environmental conditions for its continued existence. Slavery has been the norm throughout the world for almost all of human history. African slaves were (and may still be) being sold in the Ottoman regions where the environmental conditions were radically different than in the US Southern states or in the Caribbean sugar plantations.

My dad was a history professor and liked to talk about the different perspectives historians used. The primary one relied upon is an economic perspective, and other common ones are geographical determinism (as clearly illustrated in the book Gun, Germs, and Steel) or the "great man" theory of history. My dad also believed in the power of ideas to influence history, a power that is often overlooked or minimized by other historians. The Protestant Reformation was certainly caused, in part, by economics, geography, and powerful personalities such as Luther. But one would be a very poor historian if one ignored the power of the ideas behind the Reformation.

Similarly, for some reason, our modern age wants to ignore the power of the ideas and beliefs that swept through Great Britain and the US with the Wesleyan movement, of which abolition was one part. William Wilberforce, the leader of the abolition movement in England, was clearly and explicitly motivated by his religious beliefs. Most of the leaders of the abolition movement in the US were either Quakers or Methodists.
UTExan
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Jabin said:

That's really amazing. I've never heard of a church in the south like that before. I'm surprised that the whites even let the blacks worship in the same building with them.


In Ellen Roseberg's Southern Baptists: A Subculture in Transition, she describes the same thing in the antebellum First Baptist Church of Birmingham, AL.
During the Cane Ridge Revival in the early 1800s around Paris, KY near Lexington, one narrative describes slaves and slave owners worshiping together without the fetters.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
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UTExan
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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

BonfireNerd04 said:

aalan94 said:

The North was not particularly more moral or noble. Slavery just didn't work there. It worked in the South because, as noted, you had a staple of crops that needed intensive labor.


This needs to be said, because so much modern historiography of the Civil War is simplified to South = evil racist traitors and North = the virtuous heroes.
I've not seen a lot of the "virtuous heroes" narrative for quite some time now. Maybe older generations still believe that but there are quite a few historians/writers who are exposing the sins of the north as well.


Indeed. Oregon and Indiana had laws prohibiting free black people from settling there IIRC.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
LandArchSA
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AG
Stumbled across this thread and got curious. Brief mention of the slave gallery in the description.

https://www.walthallchamber.com/china-grove-church.html
TRD-Ferguson
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That's it! Actually a beautiful area.

My mother's and father's families moved in there in the early 1800's. Most of my cousins live within 100 miles of there with several in the immediate area.
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