I've been getting story suggestions on my phone that Mbappe's road to being the next Messi/Ronaldo hit a speed bump yesterday. First of all, I think it's ridiculous that one PK would make that big a difference in somebody's career wide legacy. But secondly, I don't view him as being on the same plane as Messi/Ronaldo (especially Messi).

I don't get many opportunities to watch PSG much, only occasional CL games and I have watched France play in tournaments like this. So not a whole lot. But it seems to me that his #1 asset is being ridiculously fast. That is a skill that goes away pretty quickly. He's not going to be able to run like that when he is 30. From what I have seen, he doesn't seem to be an amazing dribbler or visionary passer. I just don't see it. (Don't get me wrong, I'd start him on the USMNT, I just wouldn't put him in that stratosphere)

Am I smoking crack?

Your logic is sound. I would start 10 if we had to, to get him on usmnt.

I think he's a pretty darn good dribbler, but I would agree insofar as he's often looking to get a flick on the ball and then out pace his defender to the next touch. But, it works for him. His goal scoring rate at his age is really impressive.


Time will tell if he can adjust his game once he can't just outpace everyone at-will. Some questions of whether he's still got more development in him will be raised because he didn't really have a great tournament; the penalty being a very obvious thing that you can point a finger at.

Never compare the French Danny Welbeck to Messi ever again.

I think he has the potential top-end talent to really be one of the best players in the game for a good while. Maybe he can translate that into major endorsement deals and become a media sensation/brand like Messi, Ronaldo, or Beckham before them. We'll see. But yeah, saying that an underwhelming Euro performance is going to sink his career or something like that is over the top. These guys are pros and will shake off a loss or bad game in a couple of weeks.

Mbappe is only 22 years old. He's still the most exciting young player in the game today. However, he's got a long way to go to be considered at the same level as Ronaldo/Messi as those two have done it for over a decade.

My money for the next Ronaldo would be on Haaland. Since moving from Salzburg to Dortmund he has not missed a beat. Yes his pace is a huge part of his game but he is also a top notch finisher, and his work rate is outstanding. Led the Champions League in scoring this year, albeit it was a down year for goal scorers. Also he's only 20!

Yes, he's physical, technical and athletic with the drive to succeed. I think there is starting to be some questions about how much Mbappe wants and is willing to work to be great. There is no question about Haaland's desire to be great.

akm91 said:

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Yes, he's physical, technical and athletic with the drive to succeed. I think there is starting to be some questions about how much Mbappe wants and is willing to work to be great. There is no question about Haaland's desire to be great.

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You guys ever watch Haaland after a goal scoring opportunity and they don't score? He looks like he wants to kill someone he's so mad. That's the attitude that makes him so great.

Haaland definitely has the "it" factor many of the greats have - most recent ones that come to mind are Suarez are Ronaldo. That killer instinct will make a lock for many golden boots if he keeps it up. Insane that he's only 20.

Mbappe on the other hand relies almost solely on pace and requires elite playmakers on his team. He was able to tear apart the recent Barcelona team because of its KMart defense (see: Lenglet, injured Pique), but gets absolutely exposed against competent defenses. Expect much more from a "generational" talent - especially if the second best player in the world is your playmaker in the Uber Eats league.

spence10 said:

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Never compare the French Danny Welbeck to Messi ever again.

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Yeah, okay...

aTmAg said:

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I've been getting story suggestions on my phone that Mbappe's road to being the next Messi/Ronaldo hit a speed bump yesterday.

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Soccer media is just so damn dramatic for me. The more closely I followed it, the more I had to adjust to how reactionary the media is and how strong their takes (seem to) have to be. My only uneducated guess is that so much of the traditional media coverage is the back pages of however many competing "newspapers", particularly in England. They all have to have the hottest story, rumor, or take every single day in order to be the back page of choice.

My favorite is always when a team gets two good results in like November, and they are automatically strong title contenders. Then, they get two bad results right after, and they are a complete shambles. The truth is probably in the middle, but damn it, they grabbed some eyeballs and clicks.

Monday was a huge match and moment. It was a really big deal that Mbappe missed. The idea that one PK is somehow career-defining just feels over the top. He's 22, he's really good, and he'll evolve. Is he Messi/Ronaldo level? Nope. Will he be at some point? Maybe. But I promise you if he wins a Golden Boot at an upcoming major tournament and France gets back to the top, people will forget about this week.

Yeah, it's so click baity. In fact, the only reason I clicked on the story was that I misread it to say that MBappe tweeted/spoke something to Messi/Ronaldo after the game. I was thinking, "What idiot would compare himself to Messi? Let other people compare you, don't do it yourself." But then I realized I didn't read the headline correctly.

I think his best quality is scoring goals at a rate that is almost obscene. Since 2018, he has 78 goals in 80 games. That's unreal.

spence10 said:

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Never compare the French Danny Welbeck to Messi ever again.

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Such a trash take. When did Welbeck avg a goal a game over a 3 year span?

Aggies1322 said:

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I think his best quality is scoring goals at a rate that is almost obscene. Since 2018, he has 78 goals in 80 games. That's unreal.

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Those numbers seems off. According to TransferMarkt, Mbappe has plaed in 84 matches across all competitions since 2019-2020 season, scoring 72 and assisting 29.

In the same time period, Haaland has played in 81 matches across all competition and scored 85 goals and added 22 assists.

Aggies1322 said:

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I think his best quality is scoring goals at a rate that is almost obscene. Since 2018, he has 78 goals in 80 games. That's unreal.

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I love Mbappe. He is incredible. But remember, he's playing in the French league for basically an All Star team. He's gonna score a lot of goals.

That said, he is amazing, and he reminds me of Ronaldo (Brazil), though Ronaldo was probably a better finisher.

Mbappe won't be the next Messi or Ronaldo for the same reasons there hasn't been a next Maradona or Pele. Those players are on their own plane. How long have basketball fans been crowning the next Michael Jordan? Those stars are singular and nobody will be the next Messi/Ronaldo/Jordan/etc. Mbappe might develop into the best of his generation, time will tell. But he won't be either a next Messi or a next Ronaldo or a next _________(fill in the blank).

akm91 said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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I think his best quality is scoring goals at a rate that is almost obscene. Since 2018, he has 78 goals in 80 games. That's unreal.

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Those numbers seems off. According to TransferMarkt, Mbappe has plaed in 84 matches across all competitions since 2019-2020 season, scoring 72 and assisting 29.

In the same time period, Haaland has played in 81 matches across all competition and scored 85 goals and added 22 assists.

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Used Wiki.. so likely off. Still a ridiculous clip for a kid in his early 20s. I agree that Haaland is likely a more talented player.. but that isn't saying much because that kid does things that are rarely seen in soccer.

I really love the TransferMarkt website. Has tons of good info on players.

Both Mbappe and Haaland are extremely talented. Haaland has the physical advantage over Mbappe (6" taller) with comparable speed. But I think what really separates the two are their mentality. Haaland has the advantage there as his dad was a professional player so he's been exposed to the mental side of being a professional athlete.

akm91 said:

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I really love the TransferMarkt website. Has tons of good info on players.

Both Mbappe and Haaland are extremely talented. Haaland has the physical advantage over Mbappe (6" taller) with comparable speed. But I think what really separates the two are their mentality. Haaland has the advantage there as his dad was a professional player so he's been exposed to the mental side of being a professional athlete.

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When Haaland scored 9 goals in the U20 WC, he was pissed about one he missed with 9 scored.

He actually scored 10 in that game, but VAR called it back for a foul in the buildup.

Dude is Michael Jordan of soccer.

Aggies1322 said:

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I think his best quality is scoring goals at a rate that is almost obscene. Since 2018, he has 78 goals in 80 games. That's unreal.

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He also plays in league 1 for PSG. Which top to bottom is the worst of the big 5. It's not that impressive .

Agvet12 said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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I think his best quality is scoring goals at a rate that is almost obscene. Since 2018, he has 78 goals in 80 games. That's unreal.

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He also plays in league 1 for PSG. Which top to bottom is the worst of the big 5. It's not that impressive .

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Is this why Neymar is apparently no longer the next Messi in waiting? That he screwed himself by joining the equivalent of the B12?

Neymar isn't the next Messi anymore because Neymar is always injured.

In my day Messi had to walk uphill both ways to school.

La Bamba said:

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Messi had the "OMG, what is this, I've never seen a player do things like this..." factor. Mbappe scores a lot of goals in the French League. Not even close to the same, I'm afraid.

EDIT: I think it was Ronaldhino who said Messi would be the best to ever do it when he came up to the Barca senior team. That should tell you everything you need to know.

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I saw in a documentary somewhere that it was recognized by the the whole team after his first training session with them.

jeffk said:

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It's always interesting to think about sports before the current GOAT arrived. Like before Messi we had Ronaldinho. Before Jordan we had Kareem. No one ever thinks the bar can be raised until it happens.

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You got to admit, there is something extra special about Messi. He is a soccer savant. A less extreme version of that blind dude who can play any piece of music on the piano after only one hearing (yet cannot feed or dress himself). Messi blew minds the first time he played when he was 4 despite his mom telling the coach "he can't play he's never done it before." Some people thought he was incapable of talking, it took coaches actively working with him to teach how to become more socially normal. Despite that, it is said that when he was on the pitch he would "sing". That was his piano.

I can't find it now, but EA sports or somebody wrote that they had a hard time making their simulated Messi have similar stats as the real Messi. That they had to cheat in some way. That with other players they would make their speed X, their height Y, dribbling ability Z, etc. to match real life and that the simulated players would reasonably match real life performance. But not Messi. They give him a 10/10 on dribbling, a speed to match his real speed, and so forth, and yet the simulated Messi was still merely average. There was no "it" factor. They didn't have a way to help the gamer know which pass was the perfect pass. Or why dribbling here was better than dribbling there. They couldn't slow down time for people playing as Messi and speed it up for everybody else. Supposedly, Messi doesn't even play as himself when he plays FIFA. He usually picks Liverpool. I guess he thinks his FIFA self sucks.

Before they established their GOAT status, Jordan got cut from varsity in high school and Brady was nearly ignored in the draft. They worked their asses off to get where they were. Messi works hard too, but he was literally born with it from the start, it seems.

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The reason Neymar was maybe "the next Messi" and not "the next Ronaldinho" or "the next Pele/Maradona" is that Messi is now the standard. He has surpassed the guys that came before him.

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This is good point I have never thought of before.