I can't remember but we got to talking about how Dallas soccer appears to be superior to the rest of the state. Does anyone have any ideas why that is?

2021-22 Texas Conference pic.twitter.com/xEiPJ1IQxY

— ECNL Girls (@theECNL) August 3, 2021

🚨DID YOU KNOW? 🚨

UIL GIRLS SOCCER CHAMPIONSHIPS BY CITY #TXHSSOC: 🏆⚽️🏆

Dallas/Ft. Worth- 53
Houston- 7
Austin- 4
San Antonio- 2 (30 years ago! 👀)
Rest Of State- 0

🚨Just a small part of the 40in40 Texas High School Soccer Series coming soon… pic.twitter.com/pLPXO7dqgK

— Lethal Enforcer Soccer (@LethalSoccer) July 1, 2021

🚨DID YOU KNOW? 🚨

UIL BOYS SOCCER CHAMPIONSHIPS BY CITY #TXHSSOC: 🏆⚽️🏆

Dallas/Ft. Worth- 33
San Antonio- 10
El Paso- 7
Houston- 6
RGV- 5
East Texas- 3
Waco- 1
Panhandle- 1

🚨Just a small part of the 40in40 Texas High School Soccer Series coming soon… pic.twitter.com/A3v3mdsuuQ

— Lethal Enforcer Soccer (@LethalSoccer) June 30, 2021

It's not just the state.

My daughter's ECRL team (ECNL regional) has beaten the number 1 team in MS, LA, and the 2 team in Oklahoma.

I think the money and the mature club system has a lot to do with it.

And starting a lot of these kids in academy playing year around at 7 helps as well.

2/3 of my daughters team is going into high school this year. 5 or 6 will make varsity. Not because they're the best, but because they're going to a small school. The ones in the big 6A, periennial playoff teams, will make JV2. And they're better players.

Great post and a great topic I'd like to discuss.

Some things I have attributed it to, at least for boys, as one of my sons was in DA in the Houston area and ODP teams for South Tx and lost a lot of games to North Tx teams (FC Dallas, Solar, NTX ODP) over the years:

DFW metroplex has a bigger population than greater Houston area

DFW demographics might have more European and African immigrants and 2nd gen Euro, African than Hou

FC Dallas as an organization has been light years ahead of Dynamo in terms of investment in youth academy, scouting, developing home grown talent, etc.

DFW has developed a bigger soccer culture, which in the US is a counter-culture, over the last few decades. Houston athletes are very much more focused on American football, baseball, basketball, where DFW soccer has gotten bigger for more elite athletes.

Houston youth soccer politics is a huge mess. Many many clubs as opposed to three big clubs in DFW (FCD, Solar, Dallas Texans). Houston clubs all hate each other, can't get along, acquire each other, fire coaches, abandon fields, block clubs from joining certain leagues or tournaments, etc. The whole dynamic changes considerably every year. Most organized clubs are in US Club Soccer, while one giant poorly run club that lacks in development philosophy but has mls next and ecnl boys is in US Youth Soccer, many of the Hispanic youth choose to play in smaller to tiny unorganized teams instead of the clubs.

DFW had a big soccer scene before the Dallas Burn / FC Dallas existed.

DFW is just a spot that always had a bigger and more mature scene. For as long as I can remember.

This is purely anecdotal but that facilities in the Dallas area are far superior for the most part. There are a few sets of field in the Houston area that are nicer but the Dallas area seems to be committed to quality playing facilities as a community. Just my observation.

On the girls side, there's a direct connection between family wealth and opportunities for women's athletics (and other leisure activities too). The oldest money in the state is in the metroplex so naturally they've had athletic clubs established there the longest. There are some ethnic/cultural influences on girls in sports as well that have allowed DFW to push further ahead faster in the past 75 years. Obviously the money impacts the boys game as well, but I think it's magnified in the girls game.

From what I can see, there are 5 major clubs in Houston and probably 2 minor clubs:
Major
Albion
Dash
Challenge
Dynamos
Rise

Minor
Houstonians
SG1

All of them are in USC except for Dash who got booted for player card "issues". Rise was apparently created when Express and Eclipse merged. Honestly, I was surprised that they were not part of ECNL because they are huge and their top teams are pretty solid.

Of course there are a number of much smaller clubs and independent teams.

PatAg said:

---

DFW had a big soccer scene before the Dallas Burn / FC Dallas existed.

---

We also had a team in the original NASL, the Dallas Tornado, which I imagine contributed to the scene having a good starting point in the 60s-80s..
Then we had the 1994 World Cup, where the Cotton Bowl had games and was also the headquarters for it.

oh no said:

---

Some things I have attributed it to, at least for boys, as one of my sons was in DA in the Houston area and ODP teams for South Tx and lost a lot of games to North Tx teams (FC Dallas, Solar, NTX ODP) over the years:

DFW metroplex has a bigger population than greater Houston area

DFW demographics might have more European and African immigrants and 2nd gen Euro, African than Hou

FC Dallas as an organization has been light years ahead of Dynamo in terms of investment in youth academy, scouting, developing home grown talent, etc.

DFW has developed a bigger soccer culture, which in the US is a counter-culture, over the last few decades. Houston athletes are very much more focused on American football, baseball, basketball, where DFW soccer has gotten bigger for more elite athletes.

Houston youth soccer politics is a huge mess. Many many clubs as opposed to three big clubs in DFW (FCD, Solar, Dallas Texans). Houston clubs all hate each other, can't get along, acquire each other, fire coaches, abandon fields, block clubs from joining certain leagues or tournaments, etc. The whole dynamic changes considerably every year. Most organized clubs are in US Club Soccer, while one giant poorly run club that lacks in development philosophy but has mls next and ecnl boys is in US Youth Soccer, many of the Hispanic youth choose to play in smaller to tiny unorganized teams instead of the clubs.

---

FC Dallas didn't really do that much to create the youth system though, they just benefited from it and basically cannibalized it.
Which is smart, of course. When the quality already exists, a smart club would do the same.

Also, Dallas used to be the same, in that it was more like there were 10+ clubs that would have teams at every age group in the top leagues. Even more clubs that would have a couple one off teams at different age groups.

I don't think US Soccer HAS to incorporate the hispanic player base to succeed, but it seems like it would be pretty dumb to not put in more effort on that front. Some of the players will still to chose to play for Mexico, but the longer we make it clear they are welcome and wanted by US Soccer, the more players will choose the US in the future.

Can someone explain the Classic league in Dallas?

I'll also point to the longevity and consistency of the Dallas Kicks and Texas Longhorn clubs from back in the 80s and 90s. Tatu being something of a local legend. Add the notoriety of the Dallas Cup and soccer just has had more gravity in DFW for a longer time than other parts of the state.

Here's an NYT article from 1989 about Dallas Cup
https://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/22/sports/soccer-in-the-heart-of-texas.html

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

---

Can someone explain the Classic league in Dallas?

---

Basically, it's a league you have to earn your spot into, and then keep your spot. Relegation. Is this unique to North Texas?

Its probably the 2nd league for boys and third for girls.

Kevin the 3-legged dog said:

---

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

---

Can someone explain the Classic league in Dallas?

---

Basically, it's a league you have to earn your spot into, and then keep your spot. Relegation. Is this unique to North Texas?

Its probably the 2nd league for boys and third for girls.

---

In Houston, USC and STYSA do have relegation/promotion between brackets but I don't think anyone is removed or has to earn their spot into the league.I could be wrong.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

---

This is purely anecdotal but that facilities in the Dallas area are far superior for the most part. There are a few sets of field in the Houston area that are nicer but the Dallas area seems to be committed to quality playing facilities as a community. Just my observation.

---

This is a good point, and it also makes me think of the intiative Pulisic has going on up in his hometown. They are building small-side sized fields next to basketball courts, where kids can go and play for run. No coaches, no organization.
All the really nice fields you basically had to either pay to play in a league, or pay to rent for practice. If you were lucky your local schools had a field that wasn't just dirt and rocks, but the goals never had nets for long. My friends and I would have been at these all day.

Christian Pulisic is in Manheim today unveiling the “Pulisic Stomping Grounds” at the Pennsylvania Classics compound where he grew up playing. Before a ribbon cutting, he was asked to recall his goal that lifted the U.S. over Mexico in the Concacaf Nations League Final: pic.twitter.com/LSj2S51WRL

— Greg Pickel (@GregPickel) June 11, 2021

This is awesome

PatAg said:

---

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

---

Can someone explain the Classic league in Dallas?

---

I'm not as clued in on how it works from about 2010 on, but it used to play at Richland College where they have about 20 full size fields. It used to be the top league, but I think FC Dallas has probably organized their own thing that took it over.

Each age bracket would have 2 divisions, and you would have essentially a play in tournament for teams to join the league every year. It had promotion and relegation, and a certain number of teams would have to play teams to stay in every year.

There were a couple other leagues in the DFW area that also had a pretty decently high level of play, from the teams that didn't qualify for the Classic League.

Then there would also be tournaments throughtout the year, that teams from any league could play in.

High School soccer teams could still have a lot of talent, depending on how close players lived near each other, but the quality of the games didn't compare to the Classic League.

It's been a big miss by the USSF that it's only been recently that players from Dallas, and Texas in general, weren't a bigger part of the National teams. Who knows how many good players are missed, there just arent enough scouts.

I also know that if all the major colleges in Texas had D1 Mens teams, they would be a force in the NCAA tournament. As it stands now, you either have to somehow get recognized by out of state colleges, play at SMU, or be fine with playing at D2 or D3 colleges. (a lot of them are private and expensive as well). A&Ms club teams always had a lot of talent on it when I was there, and I imagine it was that way before and after as well.

---

It's changed a lot. 4 players on the U15 YNT in 2019 were from the FC Dallas DA team.

PatAg said:

---

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

---

This is purely anecdotal but that facilities in the Dallas area are far superior for the most part. There are a few sets of field in the Houston area that are nicer but the Dallas area seems to be committed to quality playing facilities as a community. Just my observation.

---

This is a good point, and it also makes me think of the intiative Pulisic has going on up in his hometown. They are building small-side sized fields next to basketball courts, where kids can go and play for run. No coaches, no organization.
All the really nice fields you basically had to either pay to play in a league, or pay to rent for practice. If you were lucky your local schools had a field that wasn't just dirt and rocks, but the goals never had nets for long. My friends and I would have been at these all day.

Christian Pulisic is in Manheim today unveiling the “Pulisic Stomping Grounds” at the Pennsylvania Classics compound where he grew up playing. Before a ribbon cutting, he was asked to recall his goal that lifted the U.S. over Mexico in the Concacaf Nations League Final: pic.twitter.com/LSj2S51WRL

— Greg Pickel (@GregPickel) June 11, 2021

---

there's a documentary about the street futsal culture that has taken over in Paris and other cities in France... Concrete Football or something or other - every neighborhood, apartment complex, etc. has caged futsal courts just like in the US where we would have basketball courts - and the impact this has had on soccer culture and creativity in France. It includes some current soccer stars like Dembele and Mahrez talking about how it impacted their development and love of the game. I recommend it. Wish we had it around here.

PatAg said:

---

I don't think US Soccer HAS to incorporate the hispanic player base to succeed, but it seems like it would be pretty dumb to not put in more effort on that front. Some of the players will still to chose to play for Mexico, but the longer we make it clear they are welcome and wanted by US Soccer, the more players will choose the US in the future.

---

I wasn't really talking about USSF, USYNT player pools, etc. The whole pay to play aspect of club soccer is such a detriment in general to youth soccer development. It would be good if the best players all got to play against each other in general, whether a Hispanic player gets an opportunity to choose his parents' country or USA national team or not. Right now, you can have extremely talented kids playing for a small team in the all-Spanish-speaking Azteca league in Houston for less than $200 / year, while rich white boys are paying over $3,000 to play on the MLS Next or ECNL-boys team at a big club. It would be nice if there was better organization and cost structure so everyone could play vs each other and the most talented could be identified, placed, and developed accordingly.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

---

Can someone explain the Classic league in Dallas?

---

I'm Houston; not Dallas, but I know a little bit about the State Classic league from the boys side, assuming it's the same thing.

Here is my understanding of the various leagues for boys:

Every soccer club is a member of an association that runs whatever leagues they mostly play in. Those associations and leagues will have their own brackets and promotion/relegation structures locally.

Each local association is a member of either US Club Soccer (USC) or US Youth Soccer (USY). Both of these have regional qualification leagues for their best teams.

This is where I can't speak for Dallas particulars, but in south Texas, which covers Austin, SA, Houston areas, USC has a regional league called Champions League, and the next level after that is club-select called ECNL. Meanwhile, USY has regional leagues called State Classic and a bit higher than that Frontier League. Whether it's Champions League in USC or State Classic in USY, there's usually qualifying tournaments in the region for teams to get into these leagues for the next year.

There are a lot of exceptions though. For example, there are clubs that are mostly USY but have been granted an ECNL membership despite their lower levels not being in USC.

USC and USY both also have their own regional all-star teams. For example, USY has their state ODP teams.

... and then there is the highest level possible - MLS Next - which includes the academies of the MLS and USL professional teams - basically for kids that might be a on pro-track- these kids do not pay. In addition, so the pro-track kids can have some competition, MLS Next invites the top teams from some select pay-to-play clubs, whether that club's lower teams are USC or USY does not matter.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

---

Kevin the 3-legged dog said:

---

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

---

Can someone explain the Classic league in Dallas?

---

Basically, it's a league you have to earn your spot into, and then keep your spot. Relegation. Is this unique to North Texas?

Its probably the 2nd league for boys and third for girls.

---

In Houston, USC and STYSA do have relegation/promotion between brackets but I don't think anyone is removed or has to earn their spot into the league.I could be wrong.

---

In Houston STYSA (USY) teams in the top bracket in the DDL league will have a chance at U-13 (I think) to qualify for the regional Frontier League. The teams that fail to qualify for that will then have a chance to qualify for a the State Classic league.

Every sport in the US is pay to play. That's just how it goes.

oh no said:

---

FC Dallas as an organization has been light years ahead of Dynamo in terms of investment in youth academy, scouting, developing home grown talent, etc.

---

This has been a source of much consternation for me. I grew up in the DFW area and watched FC Dallas make massive efforts into an already burgeoning soccer scene.

In Houston, I have to sit here and watch the Dynamo act like a small market team that's just happy to collect a check and put a mediocre product of a first team on the field and otherwise not seem to care. I think the massive success that FC Dallas is seeing through its youth efforts might finally get the Dynamo front office off of its ass.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

---

From what I can see, there are 5 major clubs in Houston and probably 2 minor clubs:
Major
Albion
Dash
Challenge
Dynamos
Rise

Minor
Houstonians
SG1

All of them are in USC except for Dash who got booted for player card "issues". Rise was apparently created when Express and Eclipse merged. Honestly, I was surprised that they were not part of ECNL because they are huge and their top teams are pretty solid.

Of course there are a number of much smaller clubs and independent teams.

---

Rise and Dash (used to be Rush) have gotten big as a result of gobbling up several other former clubs in the area. Getting into ECNL involves a lot of politics. If you have a girl who is very competitive and will be looking for scholarships in the future, Dash is probably not the way to go. I understand that being shut out of USC and ECNL hurts the girls' exposure a lot - the showcase opportunities and better competition for development and scouting/exposure won't be there as much in Dash. Challenge seems to have development, relationships, exposure, etc. figured out the most as far as placing girls on scholarships.

Kevin the 3-legged dog said:

---

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

---

Can someone explain the Classic league in Dallas?

---

Basically, it's a league you have to earn your spot into, and then keep your spot. Relegation. Is this unique to North Texas?

Its probably the 2nd league for boys and third for girls.

---

If you think Classic league is 3rd for girls what is in front of it?
My daughter plays in classic league D1 (and will play ECRL starting this year) and they are competitive against most teams at this level. Any time they play teams that compete in other leagues, they destroy them.

Just curious as to what you rank as more difficult/higher skilled.

my interpretation of the tiers:

Boys:
#1 MLS Next
#2 ECNL
#3 ECNLr
#4/5 State Classic or Champions

Girls:
#1 ECNL
#2 ECNLr
#3/4 Classic or Champions


although my bet is that there are some good ECNL teams at clubs that don't have MLS Next that would beat several MLS Next teams (boys) and for both boys and girls, there are some USC Champions league teams or State Classic League teams at the top of the table that would whip a bunch of ECNLr or even some lower ECNL teams. Some of these big clubs were just gifted ECNL and ECNLr programs so they didn't have to be that good and in fact may be bad in some age groups.

oh no said:

---

my interpretation of the tiers:

Boys:
#1 MLS Next
#2 ECNL
#3 ECNLr
#4/5 State Classic or Champions

Girls:
#1 ECNL
#2 ECNLr
#3/4 Classic or Champions


although my bet is that there are some good ECNL teams at clubs that don't have MLS Next that would beat several MLS Next teams (boys) and for both boys and girls, there are some USC Champions league teams or State Classic League teams at the top of the table that would whip a bunch of ECNLr or even some lower ECNL teams. Some of these big clubs were just gifted ECNL and ECNLr programs so they didn't have to be that good and in fact may be bad in some age groups.

---

I guess it depends on age also.
For the younger kids, ECNL isn't an option. Just ECNL regional.

It's the Kyle Rote Jr. effect.

Soccer had a big head start in Dallas thanks to the Dallas Tornado in the NASL and Rote's popularity.

Edit to add: And affluence kept it going.

380Ag said:

---

Kevin the 3-legged dog said:

---

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

---

Can someone explain the Classic league in Dallas?

---

Basically, it's a league you have to earn your spot into, and then keep your spot. Relegation. Is this unique to North Texas?

Its probably the 2nd league for boys and third for girls.

---

If you think Classic league is 3rd for girls what is in front of it?
My daughter plays in classic league D1 (and will play ECRL starting this year) and they are competitive against most teams at this level. Any time they play teams that compete in other leagues, they destroy them.

Just curious as to what you rank as more difficult/higher skilled.

---

ECNL
ECRL
Classic
NPL
PPL
FPL
APL


What age and what team?

Just an anecdote ...

Years ago, my daughter's team was playing in a tournament in BCS. We were what was considered Division 2 ... at the time, you had D1, Super II and then D2.

Our first match on Saturday was early against a team from Solar that was playing two age levels up.

Watching them warm up was one of the most impressive things I'd seen in youth soccer up to that point. Completely player-led; no trainers involved. When I saw how organized and focused they were compared to our side, I knew we were in for a long morning.

I don't remember the final score but they schooled us completely.

My understanding from our trainers was that the Dallas clubs were extremely cut-throat and that both the parents and kids knew that they could lose their spot at any time. Recruiting was fierce and there was no such thing as loyalty, from either the clubs or the families.

The Houston clubs were far more laid back. At the time, Challenge was the big dog on the girls side and they scooped up the best players. Everyone else just went along. I guess it was just a cultural thing that's persisted.

Gotcha. My understanding is that sub/regional ECNL leagues have been around in other regions for a while, but is new in Texas. I wasn't sure what age it started. I was under the impression that every club that already had ECNL now has the option to have a B team in the ECNLr or ECRL or whatever. Theoretically, top to bottom, it should be the 2nd best competition possible for girls (or best for younger girls from what you're saying).

Since ECNL admittance is granted at the club level for every birth year, and not each team in each age earning a spot in the league as they do in something like Classic, I suspect there will be some weaker ECNL teams here and there at different clubs in different ages. Meanwhile, I'm almost certain there will be some Classic teams that have been together a long time and have some high-end talent at the top but the club doesn't have ECNL.

EclipseAg said:

---

I don't remember the final score but they schooled us completely.

My understanding from our trainers was that the Dallas clubs were extremely cut-throat and that both the parents and kids knew that they could lose their spot at any time. Recruiting was fierce and there was no such thing as loyalty, from either the clubs or the families.

---

This is Solar for you.

Playing Solar is like a box of chocolate, you never know what you'll get.

You may player their bottom team that has 5 ECNL guest players on it, or their bottom team with their bottom players. Or they may have 5 ECRL players on it. They move them up and down depending on their schedules.

Even their bottom teams are good.

I think the reason is similar to the SEC. Good teams play good teams for years and that makes everybody better. The system becomes a self repeating cycle. Eventually, you start attracting good players and teams from far out. Starting in 7th grade, there was a girl on my daughters Sting team that drove 2 hours for each practice. On her Texan ECNL team, there was a girl who flew in on a private jet from Midland.