Houston just doesn't have anything like FCD or Solar.

Dynamo doesn't even try to be like FCD as far as being a club. Dynamo has affiliations with local clubs like TFC and Rush (now called Dynamo Dash Youth) from which they can help scout players for their academy teams. Meanwhile FC Dallas has their own huge youth club themselves along with locations and affiliate clubs even out of state to scout their players for their academy. FCD is even trying to acquire fields and start a location in Conroe Tx - encroaching on Dynamo/Houston territory. Then they'll still poach the best players from Solar or recruit and sign players from across the country to come play in their academy. Austin FC is starting this too. My son has a S. Tx ODP teammate whose family moved from McAllen to Austin because the kid was offered a contract at Austin FC. The dad quit his job and found one in Austin because it sounded like his son was a pro track, and he is really really talented and athletic. After only one year, Austin FC moved another family from Oregon and another one from California in his age group to Austin and he lost his spot on the academy team. It's pretty damn cut throat.

...and then if you try to compare Solar to Dynamo Dash Youth or Rise, the two biggest clubs in Houston, it's just not close as far as being cut throat and competitive and the top end talent isn't there.

EclipseAg said:

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Just an anecdote ...

Years ago, my daughter's team was playing in a tournament in BCS. We were what was considered Division 2 ... at the time, you had D1, Super II and then D2.

Our first match on Saturday was early against a team from Solar that was playing two age levels up.

Watching them warm up was one of the most impressive things I'd seen in youth soccer up to that point. Completely player-led; no trainers involved. When I saw how organized and focused they were compared to our side, I knew we were in for a long morning.

I don't remember the final score but they schooled us completely.

My understanding from our trainers was that the Dallas clubs were extremely cut-throat and that both the parents and kids knew that they could lose their spot at any time. Recruiting was fierce and there was no such thing as loyalty, from either the clubs or the families.

The Houston clubs were far more laid back. At the time, Challenge was the big dog on the girls side and they scooped up the best players. Everyone else just went along. I guess it was just a cultural thing that's persisted.

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I have an example from the opposite side. When my daughter was in HS we had a tournament in Houston. Our first game was 7:30am Saturday morning. So our entire team played varsity HS games and then had to drive 5 hours to play a 7:30am game the next morning. I think it was a Challenge sponsored tournament and we were scheduled to play the top Challenge team. Our girls were dragging prior to the game, and I thought the other team was focused. The opposing coach was yelling and openly cussing at his players a bunch. I was worried that we may finally lose to a south Texas team.

However, prior to the game our coach told our girls that the opponent dragged us out here at 7am because they think that is their chance to beat us. That seemed to light our girls up and we schooled them pretty bad. The opposing parents, coach, and players were pissed. They seemed to treat our game as their Superbowl. They knew our girls names and stuff like they had scouted us.

I will say this, however. IMO, there isn't a lot of player development in North Texas. You develop yourself by playing a lot of good competition. It's like when she played in college. You either have it or you don't. If you don't, you are cut or you ride the bench. There aren't many coaches who take mediocre players and turn them into great players. You have to be self motivated. My daughter's assistant coach was a former NWSL player who played club at PDA in New Jersey. She complained how it was so cut throat in north Texas that coaches can only care about getting the best girls and winning and don't have time to develop them. She told me I should move to New Jersey and sign up my daughter to PDA. Of course I would not do that. But in hindsight, I see what she was talking about.

I would also state boys and girls club setups and environments have always been different. That might be obvious, but felt it was worth mentioning.

carl spacklers hat said:

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Money

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This and to back it up, straight from the greatest US WNT goalie ever:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/2018/06/28/hope-solo-youth-soccer-united-states-cost/741378002/

PatAg said:

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oh no said:

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Some things I have attributed it to, at least for boys, as one of my sons was in DA in the Houston area and ODP teams for South Tx and lost a lot of games to North Tx teams (FC Dallas, Solar, NTX ODP) over the years:

DFW metroplex has a bigger population than greater Houston area

DFW demographics might have more European and African immigrants and 2nd gen Euro, African than Hou

FC Dallas as an organization has been light years ahead of Dynamo in terms of investment in youth academy, scouting, developing home grown talent, etc.

DFW has developed a bigger soccer culture, which in the US is a counter-culture, over the last few decades. Houston athletes are very much more focused on American football, baseball, basketball, where DFW soccer has gotten bigger for more elite athletes.

Houston youth soccer politics is a huge mess. Many many clubs as opposed to three big clubs in DFW (FCD, Solar, Dallas Texans). Houston clubs all hate each other, can't get along, acquire each other, fire coaches, abandon fields, block clubs from joining certain leagues or tournaments, etc. The whole dynamic changes considerably every year. Most organized clubs are in US Club Soccer, while one giant poorly run club that lacks in development philosophy but has mls next and ecnl boys is in US Youth Soccer, many of the Hispanic youth choose to play in smaller to tiny unorganized teams instead of the clubs.

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FC Dallas didn't really do that much to create the youth system though, they just benefited from it and basically cannibalized it.
Which is smart, of course. When the quality already exists, a smart club would do the same.

Also, Dallas used to be the same, in that it was more like there were 10+ clubs that would have teams at every age group in the top leagues. Even more clubs that would have a couple one off teams at different age groups.

I don't think US Soccer HAS to incorporate the hispanic player base to succeed, but it seems like it would be pretty dumb to not put in more effort on that front. Some of the players will still to chose to play for Mexico, but the longer we make it clear they are welcome and wanted by US Soccer, the more players will choose the US in the future.

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What more effort could be done? It's a money game, and 99% are priced out of the market. Parents with kids in club soccer, what are you spending currently, on an annual basis? We spent easily $5,000 a year 5 years ago. Once we added in travel around the metroplex, houston area, and club fees.

Edit: Damn, maybe $5,000 was a good deal!

"My family would not have been able to afford to put me in soccer if I was a young kid today"
- @hopesolo #HS18 pic.twitter.com/vR6sV1qLDA

— Hashtag Sports (@HashtagSports) June 26, 2018

My daughter plays for a mid level team and we have 3 girls on scholarship.

If the will is there, the money will get there.

Scholarships are awesome and I think more clubs need to be offering them, but that's only one part of why high level club play can be prohibitive for some families.

I've heard that if a poor kid from a poor family really wants to play club soccer but can't afford the ~$3,000 club dues (excluding kits, boots, tournaments fees, travel, etc.), then they can apply for a scholarship from the club... but there's a $75 or $100 application fee to apply for scholarship!!

oh no said:

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I've heard that if a poor kid from a poor family really wants to play club soccer but can't afford the ~$3,000 club dues (excluding kits, boots, tournaments fees, travel, etc.), then they can apply for a scholarship from the club... but there's a $75 or $100 application fee to apply for scholarship!!

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Hmmmm. My kids have played for a big club and a medium sized club.

One of the coaches would sub at low end schools and invite kids to join his team. He would either give a scholarship or have the costs split amongst 4-5 parents who could afford it.

Half the team were Hispanic from a low income area.

EclipseAg said:

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It's the Kyle Rote Jr. effect.

Soccer had a big head start in Dallas thanks to the Dallas Tornado in the NASL and Rote's popularity.

Edit to add: And affluence kept it going.

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^This. Kyle Rote Jr. was recognizable due to his dad's name and American football dads that helped older sons play football helped younger sons play futbol. Throughout Dallas and outlying communities especially. Sr. was a very popular athlete in the area and at SMU then first overall draft pick to the Giants in 1951 and NFL Championship as a wide receiver in 1956. Career was winding down in early 1960s when Cowboys started up at the Cotton Bowl where SMU also played then.

The Dallas Tornado was Lamar Hunt's effort to keep a toe in the Dallas market after he moved his Texans to Kansas City to become the Chiefs. Also owned FC Dallas at his death as well as Columbus Crew.

So the promotional genius behind all of it was Hunt and partner Bill McNutt known for the Collin Street Bakery and Navarro Pecans, but was a Vandy grad and at one time was President of the Dr Pepper Bottling Company of Nashville as well after starting working for his dad and uncle there.

This is NOT son Bill McNutt III btw. That guy is a piece of work.

As a soccer dad I feel like one big hurdle is just knowledge outside your bubble.

My daughter started at like age 6 with SCFC (Space City Football Club) which then became Dash. She's on the 08 South Competitive team and we've always been happy. One girl on our team tried out for the GA2 team and didn't make it, so she left for Albion. Honestly I had never even heard of Albion before she left.

On top of that I'd never heard of Challenge, Rise, Houstonians, or SG1 before opening this thread.

Another hurdle is distance. Dash is city wide. We've been extremely lucky that even at the Competitive D1 level we are on a team that practices at a park walking distance from our house. The next level (GA2) would be a 35-40 min drive, and the girl who left for Albion is now driving from Friendswood to 290 area for that, which has to be 45 minutes in post work traffic. Granted, if you are serious that isn't a HUGE drive, but Dash has always proved good and it's so close. Like I said I don't feel like any of the other clubs mentioned have a presence in south Houston, as I'd never even heard of them.

Jim01 said:

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As a soccer dad I feel like one big hurdle is just knowledge outside your bubble.

My daughter started at like age 6 with SCFC (Space City Football Club) which then became Dash. She's on the 08 South Competitive team and we've always been happy. One girl on our team tried out for the GA2 team and didn't make it, so she left for Albion. Honestly I had never even heard of Albion before she left.

On top of that I'd never heard of Challenge, Rise, Houstonians, or SG1 before opening this thread.

Another hurdle is distance. Dash is city wide. We've been extremely lucky that even at the Competitive D1 level we are on a team that practices at a park walking distance from our house. The next level (GA2) would be a 35-40 min drive, and the girl who left for Albion is now driving from Friendswood to 290 area for that, which has to be 45 minutes in post work traffic. Granted, if you are serious that isn't a HUGE drive, but Dash has always proved good and it's so close. Like I said I don't feel like any of the other clubs mentioned have a presence in south Houston, as I'd never even heard of them.

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I think this is a Houston thing.

In other soccer communities, we almost all know every program in the state of California, but many of us can tell you about the top programs in every state. Regularly we follow the results of tournaments in other regions to see how teams we have played do against other clubs. I just don't think their is the soccer/futbol mindset in Houston like their is in other parts of the state or around the country.

ColoradoMooseHerd said:

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Jim01 said:

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As a soccer dad I feel like one big hurdle is just knowledge outside your bubble.

My daughter started at like age 6 with SCFC (Space City Football Club) which then became Dash. She's on the 08 South Competitive team and we've always been happy. One girl on our team tried out for the GA2 team and didn't make it, so she left for Albion. Honestly I had never even heard of Albion before she left.

On top of that I'd never heard of Challenge, Rise, Houstonians, or SG1 before opening this thread.

Another hurdle is distance. Dash is city wide. We've been extremely lucky that even at the Competitive D1 level we are on a team that practices at a park walking distance from our house. The next level (GA2) would be a 35-40 min drive, and the girl who left for Albion is now driving from Friendswood to 290 area for that, which has to be 45 minutes in post work traffic. Granted, if you are serious that isn't a HUGE drive, but Dash has always proved good and it's so close. Like I said I don't feel like any of the other clubs mentioned have a presence in south Houston, as I'd never even heard of them.

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I think this is a Houston thing.

In other soccer communities, we almost all know every program in the state of California, but many of us can tell you about the top programs in every state. Regularly we follow the results of tournaments in other regions to see how teams we have played do against other clubs. I just don't think their is the soccer/futbol mindset in Houston like their is in other parts of the state or around the country.

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This may be a Jim01 thing too.
I know most of the top clubs nationwide as well, including the Houston clubs.

Albion is pretty popular but I don't think they have anything south of town. Rise and Dash seem to dominate that area.

Also, Dash is fairly insulated because they pretty much only play inside their different directional clubs after getting booted from USC.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Albion is pretty popular but I don't think they have anything south of town. Rise and Dash seem to dominate that area.

Also, Dash is fairly insulated because they pretty much only play inside their different directional clubs after getting booted from USC.

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I've heard of all them and live in Dallas.

Apparently so.

It is right that all we've played is the other Dash competitive teams so we aren't exposed to other leagues much. We've played a couple tournaments but not enough to have played any team more than once and get to know other organizations.

Soccer is her main sport but she is going into 7th and wants to try out for volleyball, basketball, soccer, and track. So she's not ready to dive in completely full force.

I googled about Dash and USC but all I find is press releases like this making it sound like the Dash decided to leave. I take it from what you all are saying it was more of a "you can resign with dignity or we can fire you" situation?

https://blog.dynamodashyouth.com/dynamo-dash-youth-soccer-club-partners-with-south-texas-youth-soccer-association

My daughter played all sports in 7th last year. Her club coach encourages that.

Jim01 said:

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Apparently so.

It is right that all we've played is the other Dash competitive teams so we aren't exposed to other leagues much. We've played a couple tournaments but not enough to have played any team more than once and get to know other organizations.

Soccer is her main sport but she is going into 7th and wants to try out for volleyball, basketball, soccer, and track. So she's not ready to dive in completely full force.

I googled about Dash and USC but all I find is press releases like this making it sound like the Dash decided to leave. I take it from what you all are saying it was more of a "you can resign with dignity or we can fire you" situation?

https://blog.dynamodashyouth.com/dynamo-dash-youth-soccer-club-partners-with-south-texas-youth-soccer-association

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We're friends with a couple of their coaches/former coaches and they all give the same story. It's unfortunate because they we're a big addition the one or two years they were there.

My daughter and many of her teammates played all sports in junior high and club as well. One thing I would watch out for is fatigue/body breakdown. I coach junior high soccer and we took it easy on our girls because all but two of them played club and their bodies were wore out by the time they got to our season, which was right after track. Not all coaches do that or can afford to do that.

The McNutts were behind early MLS? Didn't know that (from Corsicana so always interested in our local characters).

Kevin the 3-legged dog said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Can someone explain the Classic league in Dallas?

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Basically, it's a league you have to earn your spot into, and then keep your spot. Relegation. Is this unique to North Texas?

Its probably the 2nd league for boys and third for girls.

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My club from NRH got promoted to Classic for one season. We got our dicks kicked in by Solar, Dallas Texans, etc...teams we used to also get our dicks kicked in by at McKinney FlameFest tournament. It was cool to play in the Classic league, but we couldn't compete with those Dallas programs. This was probably 21-22 years ago

DFW has a very robust youth soccer scene. It was alive and well way before FCD/Burn came around. Sting and D'Feeters were winning on the girls side in the 70s/80s., for example. Mia Hamm and Carla Overbeck starred in Dallas youth soccer before they hit college in the late 80s.

When the Hunts bought the Dallas Burn in the early 2000s, they changed the name to FC Dallas. Lamar Hunt's sons played at SMU back in the days too, but now the grandchildren were playing club soccer for Dallas Inter and they couldn't really be affiliated with a different club than what granddaddy owned. So Dallas Inter was bought by the Hunt's and they changed the name to FC Texas (FC Dallas was already taken by a small youth club). The Inter teams had a strong reputation nationally and it was easy to blend that with the pro team's backing. After a couple of years with the stadium and complex was built at Pizza Hut Park, the name was changed to FC Dallas and FC Dallas Youth. I think the little FCD team that was blue and yellow had finally folded.

So one of the main motivations to make the FCDY teams good was the Hunt grandchildren were playing in it. I think the middle son is now at SMU playing on the men's team. One of the daughters is Ms. Kansas (look it up if you don't believe me). and there's another younger son playing for FCDY.

I would echo that organization isn't great in south Houston. Two examples.

I haven't had to go to the website lately but for a long time if you went to the Dynamo/Dash page and to the South section, it was barren of information. Simple things like costs and dates. I would frequently have to go to The Woodlands subpage to get info I was seeking, as their page was immaculate with simple charts and tables of prices and dates. Maybe it's improved but simple things like that the South always stunk at.

The bigger example was that my daughter played rec and then youth academy and then got to the age (10 I think?) where we had to decide between rec and competitive (which was a big jump in time and money). That year was the first year they introduced D2 which was only like $50 more than rec. However the only thing it said on the site was one sentence to the effect of "a mix between volunteer and professional coaching". That was it. We went to the try out and then got the email that we made a team and click to register. However I still had zero idea or information what D2 actually was.

It had our coach listed so I called him directly. I actually got just another dad, who was listed as assistant coach so his daughter could play up with us, on the line and he knew a lot. He had coached his sons team (3-4 years older than the girls) and he explained it to me. We ended up being one of two girls drafted into a girls rec team that had spent the last season in a boys division because they were beating up the girls too bad. Our first D2 season I think we maybe lost 1 game but sadly half the games we would drive 30 minutes only to figure out we were playing a rec team! We would be up 8-0 at halftime and spend the second half literally doing passing drills. It was no fun for either team. We went to district and lost every game because we weren't used to that competition. The next year was the same. Wiped the floor with half rec teams and half D2 teams, who admittedly had gotten better. We made it to state this time and then lost every game.

It was at this point the dad who knew a lot made a move for us. We had been playing in BAYSA and killing everyone and he wanted us to move to STYSA. He actually had to walk the Dash people through how to go about that. However when it was done it was instantly apparent that's where we should have been the entire time. In 5 games (before COVID hit) we played 3 of the teams we had played in district the previous year. The games were much more competitive. It was very annoying and a prime example of how unorganized things were. There is no way our girls should have spent a season and a half playing any rec teams! We should have been in the STYSA league the entire time.

The core of that team, 8-9 girls, went on to form the South Competitive team and it kind of showed that we had been paying the wrong competition. We struggled last spring, finally winning only 1 game. In the spring, after a fall of proper competition and adjusting to a new coach, our girls improved a ton and were competitive in every game.

I think/hope change is coming though. Our coach from last year moved to a new position to oversee the entire rec/youth academy/D2 for the South in an effort to rebuild. He saw that there was no clear pathway for girls and no communication so he's try to really build a system of new girls. He's spent the summer organizing and overseeing all the current girls and last time I talked to him he was going to scout the League City parks and rec league to see what they had and just inform them of the avenues in the area. It's good that he recognizes the need to really build a base of youth and provide them with a clear pathway of options on how to progress.

Sadly that means a new coach for us, but so far he seems good.

TLDR: I agree that south Houston had been unorganized.

Somebody with better Classic League insight please tell me how:
1) A U10 JGAL team skips U11 competition and goes straight into U12 D1
2) Along those same lines, how does a U11 D2 team make it into U13 D1
3) When a team switches clubs, how often does the governing body actually check the 75% rule of player retention?

Just curious
Thanks

380Ag said:

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Somebody with better Classic League insight please tell me how:
1) A U10 JGAL team skips U11 competition and goes straight into U12 D1
2) Along those same lines, how does a U11 D2 team make it into U13 D1
3) When a team switches clubs, how often does the governing body actually check the 75% rule of player retention?

Just curious
Thanks

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A. They go to U12 because of a Club bye. They want to play stiff competition.
B. Same. This is so they can play on a bigger field. Club bye.
C. They do a cursory review based. It's not that strictly enforced.

GCL is skewed to Sting, Solar, and FC Dallas. Just get used to it.

That being said, my daughters team played U14 as their secondary league and didn't do well. They got relegated to D2. Then they got moved back to D1 for this season.

Yeah, that makes sense. The retention rule is weird to me. It seems like something that would be strictly enforced, especially if other clubs raised hell about it.

380Ag said:

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Yeah, that makes sense. The retention rule is weird to me. It seems like something that would be strictly enforced, especially if other clubs raised hell about it.

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GCL don't give a ****.

It's all about the $$ and they know who butters their bread.

There's something about those Solar Girls.

I was discussing the federation, there isn't much representation within US Soccer. We have a lot of former players, as well as players that were in the MLS and then made the US their home.

Jim01 said:

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So my daughter got asked to guest on the GA2 08 team this weekend for a tournament in The Woodlands. Looks like we are playing:

- DKSC-ECNL - D'feeters Kicks Soccer Club - Dallas
- Fierce 2026-2027 - Fierce United - Austin area?
- Dash Beaumont 08 PA

My daughter is pumped to play up and experience a new level.

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DKSC are always technically sound.
They should be pretty good.

They were 0-3 loss. Barely had the ball on our side of the field. Apparently they are the best in the tourney so hopefully the next game is better.

Well my daughters team just got waxed by a Solar team in elite friendlies.

Ross Stewart '48 is the father of Girls and Women's Soccer in Texas. In the late sixties he formed the "Dingalings"
girls soccer club U12 of Richardson before Sting or Solar. He took them to out of state tournaments until other teams were formed in North Dallas. He was later President of the North Texas Soccer Assoc.

And arranged for Coach G to interview for A&M Women's soccer coach even though the deadline for
interviews had passed!