As I was saying in another thread, I think we need to stop hiring American coaches with mere MLS experience. We need to hire somebody from Europe. The first thing some of you would say is that we tried that with Klinnsmann. However, I think that Klinnsmann might have been the USMNT version of John Chavis. A coach who could only be good if he coached cream of the crop players like those he had in Germany. We don't have that kind of talent here.

At first, I was thinking we need to hire our own young coach like Lionel Scaloni. But he's coaching the likes of Lionel Messi and Di Maria. There is no evidence a guy like that could do anything with non-world class players. And on top of that, I think Argentina caught lightning in a bottle with Scaloni, anyway. Many Argentinians including Maradona himself were bashing him as a terrible hire. He surprised everybody.

So I was thinking, we need a coach who speaks English and has taken decent talent and made them play well beyond their level. Offhand, it seems to me, there is no better guy for that than the dude who took Leicester City from last to first of the premiere league in 12 months. I've done about an hour of research here, so maybe his predecessor deserves more credit, but it seems that Ranieri was able to do more with the talent he had, while his predecessor went out and transferred in a lot of talent from other teams. Something a national team cannot do.

So what do you think? Tell me all the ways that I'm a dumbass. I'm ready for it.

Is Bora still alive?

Hiring coaches outside of nationality is out of fashion. I think Scolari with Portugal is the last time one made the semis in 2006. And Costa Rica with Pinto is only team in the last three tournaments to make the quarterfinals with a foreign coach.

JJxvi said:

---

Hiring coaches outside of nationality is out of fashion. I think Scolari with Portugal is the last time one made the semis in 2006. And Costa Rica with Pinto is only team in the last three tournaments to make the quarterfinals with a foreign coach.

---

Who cares about "fashion"? I don't want to continue to get fashionably embarrassed.

And of course native coaches win more. But that's not merely because they are native, but because soccer powerhouse nations that tend to go deep also tend to have a crapton of super talented native coaches to pick from. Just like they have a lot of great players.

We don't have that sort of talent in coaches. So we need to hire from places that do have that sort of talent.

Ranieri had a good short run at LC, but other than that he's mostly had short bad runs ending with him being fired (Chelsea was a long time ago). I'd forgotten that he managed the Greek national team, but that was another short disaster. He is like the antithesis of Berhalter though in that he never stops rotating and adjusting his squad and tactics… but not always for the best.

I'm not opposed to having a foreigner run the USMNT, but they'll need some passing familiarity with MLS as it is our domestic league and we're always going to have guys playing there who will figure into the NT roster.

jeffk said:

---

Ranieri had a good short run at LC, but other than that he's mostly had short bad runs ending with him being fired (Chelsea was a long time ago). I'd forgotten that he managed the Greek national team, but that was another short disaster. He is like the antithesis of Berhalter though in that he never stops rotating and adjusting his squad and tactics… but not always for the best.

I'm not opposed to having a foreigner run the USMNT, but they'll need some passing familiarity with MLS as it is our domestic league and we're always going to have guys playing there who will figure into the NT roster.

---

One thing I noticed browsing for coaches, is that English coaches are fired so quickly. Some had only 4 months. How can anybody get into any sort of groove if they pull the trigger so fast?

Can you think of any other coach who's team performed well beyond their talent level?

Think we will need someone who is good with young players, as majority of our players will still be in their prime or younger for this next cycle.

Assuming the following holdovers from this year's squad their age at WC26:
GK: Turner 32, Horvath 31
FB: Dest 26, Robinson 29, Scally 23
CB: CCV 28
MF: Adams 27, Musah 24, McKennie 28, De La Torre 28, Reyna 24, Aaronson 26
F: Pulisic 28, Weah 26, Fereira 25, Sargent 26, Wright 28

Notables missing this year's WC:
GK: Steffen 31
FB: Vines 27
CB: Richards 26, McKenzie 27, Robinson 29
MF: Tilman 24
F: Peppi 23

Figure the depth pieces will continue to be youngsters like Aaronson (Paxten), Paredes, Wiley, Soto, Reynolds and etc.

Once again the squad will be on the younger side of the WC participants.

aTmAg said:

---

JJxvi said:

---

Hiring coaches outside of nationality is out of fashion. I think Scolari with Portugal is the last time one made the semis in 2006. And Costa Rica with Pinto is only team in the last three tournaments to make the quarterfinals with a foreign coach.

---

Who cares about "fashion"? I don't want to continue to get fashionably embarrassed.

And of course native coaches win more. But that's not merely because they are native, but because soccer powerhouse nations that tend to go deep also tend to have a crapton of super talented native coaches to pick from. Just like they have a lot of great players.

We don't have that sort of talent in coaches. So we need to hire from places that do have that sort of talent.

---

I am actually pro-foreign coach, but just felt like that needed to be pointed out. I also slightly disagree that we are just talking about soccer powers here. Morocco, Croatia, Sweden, Russia, Uruguay are all non-powers that have all had success in tournaments in this recent period with native coaches.

Oh also I did forget one team/coach. Belgium has obviously been the standard bearer lately for big national team having a foreign coach with Martinez

Obviously you don't remember the Mexican Football Federation and their trigger finger

aTmAg said:

---

jeffk said:

---

Ranieri had a good short run at LC, but other than that he's mostly had short bad runs ending with him being fired (Chelsea was a long time ago). I'd forgotten that he managed the Greek national team, but that was another short disaster. He is like the antithesis of Berhalter though in that he never stops rotating and adjusting his squad and tactics… but not always for the best.

I'm not opposed to having a foreigner run the USMNT, but they'll need some passing familiarity with MLS as it is our domestic league and we're always going to have guys playing there who will figure into the NT roster.

---

One thing I noticed browsing for coaches, is that English coaches are fired so quickly. Some had only 4 months. How can anybody get into any sort of groove if they pull the trigger so fast?

Can you think of any other coach who's team performed well beyond their talent level?

---

Yeah, a large number of coaches leading top clubs across Europe at one point overperformed their payroll/talent and got promotions to bigger organizations. Ranieri did that at LC, but then flamed out at his next half-dozen clubs. Better coaches keep moving up the ladder until they reach the elite levels and then they mostly get opportunities to stay up there unless they screw something up in a big way. And those guys aren't typically going to leave the more lucrative club scene for the chaos of international football. Best bet is to get a successful domestic coach at the tail end of their career or a promising "younger" coach who's looking to break through to a better league.

You are right European coaches have a short shelf life, but if you're not watching those teams play it's tough to explain or understand why that is. It's often not as simple as "they lost games" but more in how they lost or how they managed the players or how they conducted themselves. Reading wiki articles often doesn't give you the full picture.

I think a retiring domestic coach is a total nogo. To me that is like limiting ourselves to players who only play in MLS. We would be begging to get embarrassed. If we get somebody at the end of their career, it should be somebody European who has coached against the best and was successful with mediocre talent.

If we go young, then I'd first try for a coach who was assistant coaching for a big-time club (the HC would never leave for us). But I still think this is a one in a million shot. They wouldn't want to put their club career on pause for us. We would have to so something crazy like practice near his club so he can do both at the same time. Maybe that is doable if our players mostly play in Europe anyway. Again this has very remote chance.

Besides that, perhaps we go for a retiring (super smart) European player at a major club who wants to go into coaching but hasn't started yet. Of course, we would have offer a lot more money that we do now. We apparently paid Berhalter $1.2M. That is well below what the likes of Germany, France, and England pay their coaches. Perhaps that is why we get Berhalter performance. Hell even Argentina, which was famously broke, paid a barely qualified Scaloni $2.7M.

Someone without HC experience is a non-starter. Not basing our operations here in the US (minus a few overseas camps) is also a non-starter.

When I say domestic coaches, I don't mean to imply that their only experience is in MLS. Several of the current MLS coaches have played and coached abroad at previous stops in their careers.

A good example is Phil Neville. He's an experience international coach (albeit with England U-21 and England's Women's Team) as well as having played at the highest levels both club (ManU) and internationally (Euro's but no WC appearance as player) and is based domestically.

Not saying he's a good candidate for the job but he's an example of someone that fits your criteria.

Yeah, he's a good example.

For me, I want someone with HC experience, familiarity with both our domestic league and the European leagues (doesn't have to mean he's been a HC on both continents), English-speaking, and tactically malleable (has their favorite system but has shown an ability to adjust to his players). Obviously not all of those boxes are going to be checked, but I think those things are important.

jeffk said:

---

Someone without HC experience is a non-starter. Not basing our operations here in the US (minus a few overseas camps) is also a non-starter.

---

Why do you think this is this a non starter?

Quote:

---

When I say domestic coaches, I don't mean to imply that their only experience is in MLS. Several of the current MLS coaches have played and coached abroad at previous stops in their careers.

---

To me, a requirement is that one of those previous stops is to be a successful coach in Europe. But if they are successful in Europe, why would they leave to come coach MLS? Unless they were successful and merely wanted to retire in the US, and then they probably don't want to coach anymore anyway.

aTmAg said:

---

jeffk said:

---

Someone without HC experience is a non-starter. Not basing our operations here in the US (minus a few overseas camps) is also a non-starter.

---

Why do you think this is this a non starter?

Quote:

---

When I say domestic coaches, I don't mean to imply that their only experience is in MLS. Several of the current MLS coaches have played and coached abroad at previous stops in their careers.

---

To me, a requirement is that one of those previous stops is to be a successful coach in Europe. But if they are successful in Europe, why would they leave to come coach MLS? Unless they were successful and merely wanted to retire in the US, and then they probably don't want to coach anymore anyway.

---

1. Because I know the USSF.

2. Depends on the individual coach. For some of them, living and coaching in the US is still pretty awesome when compared to living and coaching in a lot of other places on earth. And while MLS isn't yet a top-tier league worldwide, it's not viewed as the slums of soccer many people seem to think it is.

Quote:

---

To me, a requirement is that one of those previous stops is to be a successful coach in Europe. But if they are successful in Europe, why would they leave to come coach MLS?

---

I don't think you need to be sucessful coach in Europe to be sucessful National Team Coach.

Scaloni wasn't ever a HC - Played in England, Spain and Italy
Dalic managed in Croatia, Albania, Saudi Arabia and UAE - Played in Croatia and Bosnia
Regragui managed only in Morocco - Played in France and Spain

Common thread seems to be they all know the domestic league well either played or coached within

jeffk said:

---

1. Because I know the USSF.

---

Pretend they stopped arbitrarily limiting themselves for no apparent reason. Do you see a legitimate reason to not do this?

Quote:

---

2. Depends on the individual coach. For some of them, living and coaching in the US is still pretty awesome when compared to living and coaching in a lot of other places on earth. And while MLS isn't yet a top-tier league worldwide, it's not viewed as the slums of soccer many people seem to think it is.

---

4 years is a damn long time to put their club career on hold. And if they don't get the US past the first round (or 2nd round in this new format) then it would be considered a failure by pretty much everybody. Then they would have to basically start over at club. I don't think that is worth it to them.

Being a HC is a difficult job few people are good at. Putting someone unproven in that position at this high a level is a huge risk. We have poured millions of dollars and years of resources into creating facilities and infrastructure here stateside, so abandoning those to recenter over in Europe isn't in the cards. Also, it's just a bad look to base out of a foreign country when your primary mission is growing the success of the sport in the United States. And a vast majority of our senior international matches are played in North America anyway.

akm91 said:

---

Quote:

---

To me, a requirement is that one of those previous stops is to be a successful coach in Europe. But if they are successful in Europe, why would they leave to come coach MLS?

---

I don't think you need to be sucessful coach in Europe to be sucessful National Team Coach.

Scaloni wasn't ever a HC - Played in England, Spain and Italy
Dalic managed in Croatia, Albania, Saudi Arabia and UAE - Played in Croatia and Bosnia
Regragui managed only in Morocco - Played in France and Spain

Common thread seems to be they all know the domestic league well either played or coached within

---

I don't think the common thread is that they know their domestic leagues at all. I'm sure bad coaches all over the world know their domestic leagues through and through. What I think is important is that they have experience in the top leagues (in Europe) either playing or coaching.

jeffk said:

---

Being a HC is a difficult job few people are good at. Putting someone unproven in that position at this high a level is a huge risk. We have poured millions of dollars and years of resources into creating facilities and infrastructure here stateside, so abandoning those to recenter over in Europe isn't in the cards. Also, it's just a bad look to base out of a foreign country when your primary mission is growing the success of the sport in the United States. And a vast majority of our senior international matches are played in North America anyway.

---

Well, I guess if we are going to fall for things like the sunk cost fallacy, then we will be destined to be mediocre forever.

Haha. I'd almost forgotten who I was talking to.

jeffk said:

---

Haha. I'd almost forgotten who I was talking to.

---

By that, I assume that means you realize the idiocy in that line of thinking?

We Americans have a bad habit of wasting more money on failure because we can't let the gazillion we already spent "go to waste".

aTmAg said:

---

jeffk said:

---

Ranieri had a good short run at LC, but other than that he's mostly had short bad runs ending with him being fired (Chelsea was a long time ago). I'd forgotten that he managed the Greek national team, but that was another short disaster. He is like the antithesis of Berhalter though in that he never stops rotating and adjusting his squad and tactics… but not always for the best.

I'm not opposed to having a foreigner run the USMNT, but they'll need some passing familiarity with MLS as it is our domestic league and we're always going to have guys playing there who will figure into the NT roster.

---

One thing I noticed browsing for coaches, is that English coaches are fired so quickly. Some had only 4 months. How can anybody get into any sort of groove if they pull the trigger so fast?

Can you think of any other coach who's team performed well beyond their talent level?

---

There are plenty of coaches who have performed well beyond their talent level. And when they do it a couple of times in a row, they get jobs where the talent level is elite so it's kind of hard to perform well beyond their talent level. And they probably become unattainable for the USMNT. So realistically, the profile you are looking for is kind of limited. You need a coach who has proven themselves to a degree but not so much that they are established/known and the big clubs or national teams come calling. Jurgen Klopp 2022 doesn't fit it but Jurgen Klopp 2008ish probably does.

They are relatively young...reasonable experience but also still learning. And the best place for them to do that and hone their skill is club soccer where you get 50-60 games a year not...a dozen. If you're lucky. I see what you're trying to do but I think the pool is rather limited and even if you do find someone who fits that profile, it's unlikely they'll find national team soccer appealing.

I'm bored at work and finally got around to reading this thread. And it got me thinking… in terms of guys who have MLS and European experience, there is a growing list of famous Europeans who have come play in MLS, and many of them have gone into coaching.

Not saying these guys would be good choices right now - in fact, I'd say most aren't, but it is intriguing to think about. Here's a short list of former star MLS players who are currently coaching:

Steven Gerrard (doubt we could get him, but I'd say he's definitely qualified)
Frank Lampard (I bet he's attainable… but the reason he's attainable may mean he's also not a good choice)
Wayne Rooney (dreadful record as a HC so far… but if he could ever figure it out, he'd be a poster child for the MLS + Euro combo as both player and coach)
Andrea Pirlo (just started coaching - but has coached Weston McKinney already; not comfortable with English, but not awful either; I'd take him in a heartbeat just for the hair/beard)

Edited to remove Robbie Keane who isn't coaching anymore

Edit to add:
Thierry Henry - I guess I thought he was out of coaching since he's a talking head, but he's an assistant for Belgium. Briefly coached at Montreal, so another MLS player and coach. Probably way too expensive even if we wanted him.

Quote:

---

Thierry Henry - I guess I thought he was out of coaching since he's a talking head, but he's an assistant for Belgium. Briefly coached at Montreal, so another MLS player and coach. Probably way too expensive even if we wanted him.

---

He has too much fun bashing Americans on TV.

Yeah I don't want him and he probably doesn't want us, so it's win-win. Just added him to be thorough.

Getting in someone who will just be a coach for the USMNT and not willing to spend the time needed on broader program development might work in the short term, but the US is still putting in place the infrastructure to identify, develop, and find opportunities for younger players. Say what you will about Klinsmann as coach - he put in the effort needed to greatly improve the situation for our younger players and that's paid off very well way past his final day as coach. The out of contract coach had both MLS and Europe connections and that has been, from what I understand, reasonably helpful for up and coming players. Would be great if USSF had the personnel in place to tackle this piece of the USMNT program, but right now it does not.

Agreed. Our academy system is developing talent.

I think the man that you're all talking about is Oscar Pareja.

Stellar playing career in Colombia and MLS. He was the backup to Carlos Valderrama for that (in)famous Colombian NT leading up to World Cup '94 and was left off the roster cuz he played for Independiente Medellin, which is the rival of Atletico Nacional that was owned by Pablo Escobar

Oscar played for Dallas Burn/FC Dallas, coached the USA U17 NT, coached the FCD Academy, coached FC Dallas, coached abroad in Mexico (Xolos?), coaches still in MLS in Orlando. And he was basically the runner-up behind Greg Berhalter for the job back in 2019.

Alot of comments have listed certain criteria like English-speaking, domestic coach, NT experience, flexibility in his playing system, familiar with young players, etc.

Oscar Pareja is your man.

I thought Pablo Escobar owned both Independiente and Nacional? Independiente was his favorite team. It was the team that was aggrieved by having a goal disallowed, for which a referee was later murdered (blamed on Escobar), leading to the cancellation of the end of a season for example.

If anything, the relation (if there even is any) probably went the other way and Pareja was getting picked because he was a favorite of Escobar's. At the time of the 1994 World Cup, Escobar was dead, having been killed the previous December.

I once asked Oscar about living in Colombia during those times and he clammed up. He's a wonderful person and the nicest man in the world. He can be reserved at times, though. So he was best friends growing up with Andres Escobar, the guy that made the owngoal for Colombia in the 94 World Cup and was eventually killed after returning home (unrelated to the owngoal). Oscar loved him some Andres Escobar and would talk about him at length. However, when asked about Pablo Escobar he would just shake his head and avoid the topic. I only asked once and I knew it was inappropriate. He did confirm that he played a game against Pablo Escobar at La Catedral but wouldn't say anything about that experience. He only said he played "que necesario"

Take that how you want to.

It's time. Pep Guardiola.

Sounds like Thierry Henry wants the job