see my thread

We all saw how much Roddy B killed the Spurs. Now imagine if the Spurs had to ALWAYS deal with RoddyB or Harris. It would have been insane.

Kidd shot .304 for the series. 8/7/7.

Parker and Hill combined for 30 points on 48% shooting.

I hope the last few Mav fans that held out that the Kidd trade was good had that squashed this week.

just for fun, everyone should look at Terry's stat line for this game

He was the 2nd best Mav player this regular season, but he was horrible this series.

I'm done with him now.

He didn't even hit the open 3s, and was abused by George Hill.

They can't trade him, so best bet is to get a solid backup PG so they aren't forced to play him 42+ min in the playoffs and 36min in the regular season.

There were so many games this year where he played great but was having to maximize minutes. He clearly was worn out in the 4th quarter of every playoff game.

He has a role here, but it needs to be scaled back significantly next year.

I saw Kid in is prime at PHX and he would do amazing things but he could never finish, so in my mind he was never a superstar but just a very good passer. In the NBA the person handling the ball needs to be scorers.

Jason Kidd is still a quality point guard. Point guards are required to play good defense, handle the ball, run the team, and make good passes. He does all of this. Jason Kidd is one of the greatest passers of all time. I'm a rockets fan by the way.

von-

Kidd plays good defense? What series were you watching?

get rid of beaubois and pick up ai

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Seriously, he's terrible. (And I mean at this point in his career).

He absolutely gets abused on both ends of the court. He makes the occasional wide open 3, but if he is remotely guarded, he can't hit the broad side of barn. In fact, I don't know if there's a more terrible shooter when he's guarded than Kidd.

As a Spurs fan, I was thrilled when they traded Harris for Kidd and I'm still thrilled about it.

For some reason, it seems like Mavs fans just let him slide even though freakin JJ Barea is a better option at this poin

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I dont know man.

Ive wondered for three years now.

You cant win if your point guard cant score. You cant win with a point guard that only contributes 3 points in the most important game of the series.

Its that simple. You cant win in the playoffs with a player like Jason Kidd.

I had two or three Mavs fans repeatedly tell me what an idiot I was when i told them Jason Kidd hadnt made us any better than when we had Devin Harris.

It kills me that Spurs and rockets fans notice this, but most mavs fans give Kidd a pass on everything.

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As a Spurs fan, I was thrilled when they traded Harris for Kidd and I'm still thrilled about it.

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Ditto. This is why I started the thread about this a while back. I really wanted to know what Mavs fan thinking is on this.

The day they traded away Harris was the day they seriously hurt their ability to win against the Spurs. I was glad to see the Spurs were basically just leaving Kidd to double team everyone else. His 40% shooting was very Bruce Bowen-like. It is fine to talk about, but if that 40% is dependent on getting the ball at a certain time in a certain place in a narrow situation, it doesn't really scare me much. Or, I should say it is WAY more manageable than a Ray Allen or Allen Houston 40%.

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The day they traded away Harris was the day they seriously hurt their ability to win against the Spurs. I was glad to see the Spurs were basically just leaving Kidd to double team everyone else. His 40% shooting was very Bruce Bowen-like. It is fine to talk about, but if that 40% is dependent on getting the ball at a certain time in a certain place in a narrow situation, it doesn't really scare me much. Or, I should say it is WAY more manageable than a Ray Allen or Allen Houston 40%

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Mavs fans are too stupid to understand this.

The OP and Mass Aggie both hit the nail on the head.

Kidd makes that team terrible compared to what they would be with Harris. My friends that were Mavs fans already knew this when the Mavs gave Harris up for Kidd. That's when they stopped following the Mavs.

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His 40% shooting was very Bruce Bowen-like. It is fine to talk about, but if that 40% is dependent on getting the ball at a certain time in a certain place in a narrow situation, it doesn't really scare me much. Or, I should say it is WAY more manageable than a Ray Allen or Allen Houston 40%

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I would love for Kidd to be as consistent a shooter as Bowen in the playoffs. The Spurs were able to successfully run out at Kidd with good team defense so he didn't get many open looks. But, when he did get open looks he still missed, and then he got cold feet and wouldn't shoot or drive....garbage. I've seen enough. Combine that with fatigue, poor defense 42+ min a game (not his fault) and he was a major factor in the loss.

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 4/30/2010 9:38a).]

He's saying that Bowen was only good for 3's taken from the corner, and he had to catch it wide open and go through his long, drawn out shooting motion. Bowen was crap from anywhere on the floor but the corner, and couldn't hit a shot with a guy in his face.

Bowen hit a high % from deep only because he refused to take shots in other situations. When he occasionally would shoot from other places, he never got close to making it.

That is the comparison.

My opininion for what it is worth....

You can survive if your PG is not a huge scorer, but he has to be a non-scorer while driving to the basket which exposes the denfense for your other scorers. Granted, you have to finish enough that the defense respects your drive, but you can definately dish more then score (i.e. see Kidd's games from 10 years ago). The fundamental problem was Kidd NEVER showed any drive to the basket in this series.

Nothing against Berrea or Bubois (or however you spell it), but the reason they looked like they were playing at such a high level was that they were the only gaurds consistantly driving and forcing the defenses' hand which allowed them to score or open it up for others.

It will be an interesting off season this year for the Mavs.....

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He's saying that Bowen was only good for 3's taken from the corner, and he had to catch it wide open and go through his long, drawn out shooting motion. Bowen was crap from anywhere on the floor but the corner, and couldn't hit a shot with a guy in his face.

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That makes sense, though not only was Kidd a great percentage shooter, he was also top 3 in 3pt FGs made. His open looks were a major part of the offensive success. If he could make up for his limited range like Bowen did defensively then there would be no problems with his offense.

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 4/30/2010 9:53a).]

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You can survive if your PG is not a huge scorer, but he has to be a non-scorer while driving to the basket

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Or you use your 2 guard to drive and distribute (Spurs, Lakers, Heat, Cavs, Blazers, etc)... and the Mavs fail there with Terry and Butler at the 2

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That makes sense, though not only was Kidd a great percentage shooter, he was also top 3 in 3pt FGs made. His open looks were a major part of the offensive success. If he could make up for his limited range like Bowen did defensively then there would be no problems with his offense.

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And when a team refused to leave him open, he was just about completely worthless. Same thing with Bowen. Some teams just wouldn't double off him, and he would become completely worthless on offense. He was a bad passer and a horrible dribbler.

But intentionally covering Bowen left things open for Ginobili, Duncan, Parker, Horry.

No one ever blamed Bowen's offense for losing a game.

Mavs didn't have a way to punish teams for covering Kidd, and Kidd's defense/intangibles didn't make up for being covered on offense.

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No one ever blamed Bowen's offense for losing a game.

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That's true. But Bowen hurt a lot of teams. And the last team I remember that made a huge effort to keep Bowen from having an open shot was Phoenix in 2008. And Bowen didn't SHOOT a single three as teh Spurs won in 5 games. That may be in part because Bowen hit a couple of back breakers against Phoenix in 07.

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Mavs didn't have a way to punish teams for covering Kidd, and Kidd's defense/intangibles didn't make up for being covered on offense.

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Umm. Kidd sucked ass on defense. His man (Hill/Parker) spent the entire series in the lane. Kidd can't guard perimeter anymore. His usefulness is limited to keeping bigger guards like Baron Davis from posting up, which is a big reason Cuban traded for him, imo.

That's what I said... no excuse for him playing 42 MPG, except Barea was much worse. He was useless on offense because they were covering him, and he sucked on defense as well so it was a double negative

Looks like for the series, Kidd averaged 40 mpg, Barea 17, and Roddy B 5 (or 2 if you only count games 1-5).

Kidd clearly wasn't a good matchup against the Spurs and there is little excuse for playing him 2x the minutes of Barea and Roddy B combined. He didn't have a single great game the entire series and has now been a non-factor in every playoff series in which the Mavs have been eliminated.

Roddy B could have been the guy that gave them some of what they lost when they got rid of Harris, but Carlisle refused to play him. So yeah, Kidd was a disaster in this series but some of the blame is Carlisle's for not trying other options.

For the record, Bruce hit some HUGE shots for the Spurs in the playoffs. The 4th quarter shot in game 7 against Detroit comes to mind.

That said, his shot selection and discipline (read: unwillingness to take a shot unless he was within 2 inches of his sweet spot and wide freakin-open) was the best part of his offensive game.

But obviously he was never in games to score points.

Kidd did some great things in the regular season, but the Spurs tend to render him completely worthless. Roddy B is much more suited to hurt San Antonio, and to me not playing him until game 6 was Carlisle's biggest (of many) blunders of this series. It may well cost him his job.

Because he is absolutely essential to what this team does. He is the engine that makes the Mavericks go. He makes Dirk better and Roddy B really can't play without him. Roddy can't play the point and you can't have JJ and Roddy in at the same time.

Whoever said JJB is a better option now, is an absolute moron. Sure he can get in the lane and score occasionally, but that is not what a point guard is supposed to do. A point guard is supposed to be a facilitator that makes his teammates better and that's exactly what Kidd does.

By the way Kidd played 43 minutes last night and had a plus-minus of +1. So that means the 5 minutes of the game he was out the Mavs were minus 12. So if that doesn't explain to you why he gets a pass for not being a scorer, I don't know what will.

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He makes Dirk better

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How does Kidd make dirk better?

Statistically, Dirk's three seasons before Kidd look a little better than his 2.5 seasons with Kidd.

Not many PGs can man up the Spurs PGs with the way they played this series.

Spurs have a couple of unique talents that deserve as much credit as Kidd deserves critique.

I'd say Kidd makes Dirk better because he creates easy shots for other players. I don't want a team where Dirk has to score 35 points a game for the mavs to have a chance at winning. Stats don't tell the whole story.

[This message has been edited by MW03 (edited 4/30/2010 1:02p).]

Most of what Kidd does doesn't show up in the box score, but even I will admit that he had little value in this series.

and for the record, Kidd played like garbage. We CERTAINLY could have used Devin Harris this series.

Just in the Southwest Division, where currently does Jason Kidd rank as a pg?

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We CERTAINLY could have used Devin Harris this series.

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we had him....he's aka Roddy B. he was sitting near the end of the bench until the 2nd quarter of game 6.

to the corner...BOWEN FOR THREE...YES!!!!

I have wondered the same thing. He is awful at this point in his career. I say we get rid of him and Dampier and just sign Bosh.