to put it another way, if you were to show me these players playing above their season averages and doing:

Jefferson- 62% FG, 18pts, 10 rebounds
Duncan- 60% FG, 29pts, 10 rebounds
Parker- 57% FG, 20pts, 7 assists
Hill- 46% FG, 14pts
Ginobili- 25% FG, 11 points, 11 assists

And the spurs as a team had: more assists, better FG%, less turnovers, and more steals and points off turnovers....


yeah....sorry, the spurs can't play much better than that. that's almost THE BEST they can play.

phoenix was at home, and shot the 3 well, and pretty much PLAYED THEIR GAME, (and not even their best game)....and still won. because they were better.


if anyone thinks the above shows the spurs playing terrible and they can play better.....you are wrong. and high. phoenix can play worse....yes. the spurs cannot play much better statistically as a team.

[This message has been edited by Simplebay (edited 5/6/2010 10:46a).]

Spurs lost because they didn't rebound. That's bad basketball.

The defense was much improved over game one. In fact, they were improved in exactly the way I and other Spurs fans said they needed to be and surprise! Phoenix shot a much lower percentage from the field. I'm sure that's just a coincidence in Simplebay or BMED's minds.

Now the Spurs just need to clean up a couple other things (perimeter players spending too much time with their eyes on Nash, mostly) and their defense will be great.

The other thing that is left is to box out. Bonner ought to be ashamed of his effort on the boards. He's 6'10 and he was standing around just watching every time a shot went up. No effort, no box out, not even trying to get a rebound. McDyess needs to play more (preferably out of Bonner's minutes). Blair needs to play harder.

If the Spurs had limited the Suns offensive rebounds to a reasonable number, then they would have won. It's that simple.

18 Orebs, 37 FTs, 47% from 3.

The Spurs did not play terrible, but its not even close to the best that they can play. They have A LOT of room to play better.

I doubt the Spurs will ever give up those numbers and win a game.

It is inaccurate to say the Spurs played horribly overall or conversely, that they couldn't have played better statistically. They were dreadful in a few key categories (o-boards and 3-pt shooting) that ended up being the difference.

We have two sides arguing two extremes and the answer is in the middle. Clay and Aero are right.

giving up rebounds...that's on the spurs. giving up FT's....it's a combo of the refs/home court/and how aggressive a team plays. and the SUNS shooting 3's well...that's on the suns. not the spurs. thats what. the. suns. do. and has been for years.

At some point you have to make stops on defense and make clutch plays on offense in the 4th quarter.

The Suns are the team that is doing both.

I'd love to say this Suns team is not any good, but they have figured out how to win games in the 4th quarter. Winning 4 out of the next 5 against such a team is certainly not going to be a picnic.

With what they've shown me so far in the playoffs, I don't see the Spurs winning this series unless Phoenix lays a couple of eggs in the next 5 games.

I think the Spurs better win both games convincingly in San Antonio, and I think that is a legitimate possibility. Go back to Phoenix 3-1 it's over, they'll close it out in game 5. Get it to 2-2 and it's a new series with all the momentum going San Antonio's way.

[This message has been edited by aero ag 2010 (edited 5/6/2010 11:27a).]

The Spurs did play terrible in the second quarter, and that IMHO, was the difference in the game. They had an opportunity to push the lead up, but instead we gave up offensive rebound after rebound. That kept Phoenix in the game and gave them new life. Think about it, Phoenix was shooting 34% from the field in the first half and had the game tied. Defense isn't just about shooting percentage, you have to finish it and secure the ball, which they did an absolutely horrendous job.

I will say I thought they played really well in the first quarter and for stretches in the second half. But overall, in this game, the turning point was the second quarter.

"First in Sight, Ready to Fight"

You can point to any stretch in the game you want to. Point to offensive rebounding. Point to 3-point shooting, points in the paint, turnovers, free throws...whatever.

The fact of the matter is that, in games 1 and 2 both, the game was completely within reach with 5 minutes to go. The Suns were the team that made stops and got clutch offensive plays. The Spurs were not.

It was like complete role reversal with respect to the last 10 years.

Simplebay, you really must not have watched the game. That's the only explanation for why you are being so stubborn and retarded. The Spurs didn't play a terrible overall quarter. However, for the majority of the game, they controlled the flow of things, and were winning. Unfortunately for the Spurs, they played terrible basketball for 2 8 minute spurts, and lost their edge, and going into the final six minutes of the game, the suns turned it on, and played really well, at which point the Spurs didn't have the cushy lead that they should have, had they played good basketball.

What is terrible basketball?

How about 6-7 And-1 plays. A ton of those were off offensive rebounds. How about going up by 11, and then having Bonner and Blair giving up a 5!! point play, and losing a ton of momentum. How about having Bonner play ****ty help defense, running to the FT line elbow on a baseline drive, and then having the penetrator kick it to Frye (Bonner's man) for a wide open 3. That happened 3 times. Our rotations were good when we had a decent lineup in the game, but we really stunk it up for 8 minute spurts. That was our chance to put the dagger in, but instead of blowing them out, we gave them 2-3 opportunities every time, and shockingly, they scored on most of those. Giving up that many offensive rebounds during those periods is dreadful. It nullifies a lot of really good plays. The thing is, the Suns weren't playing that well in that time period, and we could have extended the lead up quite a bit, instead they kept it close, and made their run in the fourth. So in addition to everything else, we couldn't break their will last night when we had the chance. Another symptom of a poorly played game. But keep pointing to Duncan, Jefferson, and Parker having great offensive games. Even though that's not the measuring stick for the quality of the game played, it's an easy stat to look at it you didn't actually watch the game, and it's apparent that you didn't.

Also, saying they shot 40% from the field... That's a worthless stat if they're getting a ton of offensive rebounds. Find out how many possessions they scored on. Far more telling of a team's defense. Then talk to me about how great the Spurs played. Frankly, they may lose this series, and if they do, you have to give all the credit to the suns for playing tough, but the Spurs are not giving it their best effort right now.

so is it effort?? or play? because those are 2 excuses the spurs fans have thrown around on this board for yearsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss


the facts PROVE that statistically the spurs played GOOD. as in...better than their playoff and seasons averages on both an individual and team statistics.

it sounds like excuses. the spurs played good, the suns played their game and played it better. and it's catching spurs fans off guard. the suns are doing what the suns have done the majority of the 2nd half of the season....because they have the best record since the all star break. the suns have been on a tear.

the suns deserve more credit for the win than the spurs do for the loss. (see: channing frye and jared dudley). and the entire premise of this thread is excuses trying to point out the latter.

[This message has been edited by Simplebay (edited 5/6/2010 12:38p).]

I really don't know why I bother responding to you. You don't bother to comment on 80% of what is said, then pick out a single word that you don't like (even though I'm using a different meaning of the word than you are) and attempt to invalidate the whole post on that single premise.

Well done.

The Suns are playing better than the Spurs. There isn't a single person that should disagree with that statement.

My point was that the Spurs are making mistakes in this series that they should not be making, that they haven't made in the past. For instance, Matt Bonner shouldn't be leaving Channing Frye wide-open. The Spurs aren't boxing out on rebounds well enough. Those are things that affect the judgment of the Spurs quality of play? Do you understand that, or will this be the sentence that you choose to ignore?

Here's the reality. Statistically, the Spurs did some thing very well last night. But, they let the Suns stay in it, and then the Suns made a run at the end of the game. That doesn't detract from what the Suns did, but if the Spurs didn't make mental mistakes uncharacteristic of their team (huge defensive lapses, which let Frye get wide open, mistakes closing out on players, unnecessary fouling, bad rebounding), then the Spurs probably win last night. They didn't and they lost. Kudos to the Suns for playing hard, and playing well when it counts.

Oh and here is the single sentince for you to correct so that you can ignore everything else.

john....you actually give credit. but please, read the OP. then read what you wrote.

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but this Phoenix team is not very good.

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The Suns are playing better than the Spurs. There isn't a single person that should disagree with that statement.

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the entire point of this thread is to make excuses for the spurs. not credit the suns. it's stated in the OP. and this has been the trend for a long time with the spurs fans on this board.

that being said...i agree with most of what you said. im just tired of the attitude that the spurs should obviously win every game because they are better and they just arent playing well, arent trying, pop is intentionally throwing games, etc, etc, etc. and then when the spurs get eliminated, itll be due to injuries or the refs in the end. because it seems according to the vast majority of outspoken spurs fans on this board, the spurs should win every time.

[This message has been edited by Simplebay (edited 5/6/2010 1:16p).]

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pop is intentionally throwing games

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Incidentally, according the criteria that you yourself put in place, it turned out that Pop did let the Mavs win that game. Funny how you never went back to that thread even though it got brought up to the top a couple times and you comment on every Spurs thread but that one.

And yes, Spurs fans tend to look for things their team could do better rather than hoping their opponent will suddenly start to suck so they can win some games. That's what Pop does, which is why he wins so many playoff series through superior adjustments, and that could be where Spurs fans get that mentality.

Good God you are an insufferable jackass Simpletroll. Thanks for opening your fat mouth though. I see a Spurs winning streak coming on.

love you too Butt Puddy

that being said...i think the spurs will win the series. in 6.

Too late, you already said they couldn't play any better and they were done. Can't take it back now. I honestly don't see them sweeping the next 4, but I guess stranger things have happened.

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the facts PROVE that statistically the spurs played GOOD. as in...better than their playoff and seasons averages on both an individual and team statistics.

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The stats prove the Spurs shot well and had a lot of assisted baskets.

They also prove they gave up a ton of offensive rebounds and shot poorly from 3-pt range while allowing a high % (although the Suns are good in that area).

If you are arguing that the Suns should get more credit for what they'd done to earn the wins, then I agree. But you didn't stop there, you went so far as to say that the stats show that the Spurs couldn't have played much better, which is patently false.

well moore if i stopped there it just wouldnt be very fun now wouldnt it. i gotta balance out the nutiness on this board.

truth is i usually say like 75% of correct stuff, and then ill say that final 25% thatll make my friend puddy go bat sheet crazy.

Call me a defeatist, but I think the Spurs lose this series in 5. I'm just not seeing the killer instinct in them that'll let them close games out. Maybe they'll show me something on Friday in SA.

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truth is i usually say like 75% that is trolling, and then ill say that final 25% thatll make my friend puddy wonder wtf I am smoking.

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fify

I think the Spurs lose this thing in 5.

Duncan and Parker will bring it more or less, but Ginobili's shooting has been terribad since his nose break (he's 28/82=34% since game 3 vs Dallas), Hill's youth and inexperience is being exposed by Phoenix's uptempo style, Jefferson disappears without warning, and McDyess just isn't a game changer.

Most importantly, this Suns team seems tougher. The homecourt start was huge. They really channeled that frantic, "we aren't gonna lose to SA again" energy and now, with a 2-0 lead, they've earned some confidence and they're not gonna play scared. They know that all they need to do is win one more in SA and they'll finally be able to slay the giant in game 5, with an absolutely rabid home crowd (they will turn out in droves to support their team and see SA go down).

Funny thing is, turn homecourt around and I think SA wins it in 5. The Suns aren't much better than SA (games 1 and 2 have gone down to the wire even with SA playing on the road) and I don't think they would have been able to make two last minute stands without homecourt. Get them down 2-0 against a team that has beaten them so many times and they wouldn't have recovered. It'd be 08 all over again.

I think the Spurs have 1 more chance to win it all next year, but it's gonna depend on how good Splitter actually is and if we can actually get him on the team. But how different would this season be if we had a high energy, athletic big with actual skills to sub instead of Bonner? That said, it takes a fair bit of luck to win a championship, even if you're really good, and I just don't see it.

Ah well, it was a heck of a run. 4 titles, lots of good playoff basketball, tim duncan crushing Phoenix's soul with his 3 pointer... Heck even this year's squashing of the Mavs' "zomg we are SOOO legit contenders" nonsense as a freaking 7 seed. It's been a great decade to be a Spurs fan.

PS - simple you're right that we got some pretty good offense last game, but our rebounding was terrible as was our 3 point defense. I'd gladly trade a few missed FGs for a better performance in both of those categories.

Also, not beeching about the refs, but hopefully they'll be a little quicker to call over the back in SA. Some of those were heinous no calls.

Meh. Most likely the Spurs won't have quite enough gas to overcome a 2-0 hole, but I see them making a series out of this. If they can just get the series back to SA for a game 6, you never know what can happen.

Going back to Phoenix 2-2 would seem to be within reach as long as the Suns cool down from the perimeter just a little. Typically, role players play much better at home than on the road, so that should swing into our favor.

Even if the Spurs fall down 3-1, pulling out a win in game 5 to make it 3-2 going back to SA would be putting A TON of anxiety and pressure into the back of Nash & Amare's heads. I could see them folding like a cheap tent if SA can really take it to them over the next 2-3 games.

Again, more than likely, SA just won't have enough horsepower to overcome a 2-0 hole. But they have been there before, they are savvy veterans, and I wouldn't count them out of it until they are losing big in an elimination game.

Today should be very telling for the rest of the series. San Antonio has not looked hungry for a win in the vast majority of the first 96 minutes of the series.

Spurs are gonna win tonight, guaranteed.

It's game 4 that will show if the spurs really want it.

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Call me a defeatist, but I think the Spurs lose this series in 5. I'm just not seeing the killer instinct in them that'll let them close games out.

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So what you're saying is that you did not watch the first round.

Spurs in 5

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So what you're saying is that you did not watch the first round.

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Nah, but we're onto a new series. In game 1 and 2, the Spurs had opportunities to really take it to the Suns when they were cold, and the Spurs folded. You can't win a series when you give games up.

As much of a Suns fan I am, it doesn't really matter who wins this series because it will be over--quick-- playing the Lakers, or either of Orlando or Le-Cavs in the finals.

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Spurs are gonna win tonight, guaranteed.

It's game 4 that will show if the spurs really want it.

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Might as well own up to it before someone ttt's this. I was dead wrong about tonight, and about the Spurs team. Phoenix earned this, and have proven they are a much better team.